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SME 3009 Series 2 cueing dashpot cleaning?

I'm trying to fix my dashpot! Has anybody managed to get flawless performance short of using one of the vacuum chamber methods above? I've repacked the chamber with grease. The cue arm drops very quickly and clicks at the end (although the tonearm drops slowly enough to be useable).
 
I'm trying to fix my dashpot! Has anybody managed to get flawless performance short of using one of the vacuum chamber methods above? I've repacked the chamber with grease. The cue arm drops very quickly and clicks at the end (although the tonearm drops slowly enough to be useable).
Do not think "grease" is the best fluid???
 
I think most who have succeeded in fixing their dashpots have done so without vacuuming, so it should be doable but, YMMV.

What kind of a grease did you use? It must be silicone oil, and if you've used the most common 300k cst getting a too fast drop you should try a 500k instead.

The clicks are from trapped air, which you must work out one way or another. Without vacuum, that seems to be the main difficulty in these restorations.
 
I think most who have succeeded in fixing their dashpots have done so without vacuuming, so it should be doable but, YMMV.

What kind of a grease did you use? It must be silicone oil, and if you've used the most common 300k cst getting a too fast drop you should try a 500k instead.

The clicks are from trapped air, which you must work out one way or another. Without vacuum, that seems to be the main difficulty in these restorations.
Yes, that makes sense. As I don't have easy access to a vacuum chamber, I will try leaving it alone for a few weeks and see if the oil will flow into the lower piston chamber. In theory a liquid cannot sustain static shear stress so given sufficient time it should flow under the force of gravity. But if the piston is very well seated it could end up taking an eternity.
 
If possible, I'd suggest removing the dashpot from the arm, and leave it open in a tilted position as I described in my vacuum instruction. That way all the trappped air should sooner or later rise up to the highest point, while the silicone should run to the lowest, hopefully leaving enough space for the air to escape. But this will take some time; I'd guess a week or so...

I haven't seen anybody having needed thicker silicone than 500K cst, so I suppose you should be OK there.
 
You're welcome. Actually, your post had intrigued me enough to conduct a little research to get down to the bottom of the 'unserviceable dashpot' issue and I think I've figured it out.

There are at least three generations or 'families' of SME dashpots.

Early Series I:

The early Series I dashpots had a knurled top which looked like this:

T2fr4c3.jpg


It was sitted on a different dashpot than what we know from later variants (I have no experience with it but I assume it's piston/cylinder principal based):

0BPE6EE.jpg


Later 3009 / 3012 ("factory sealed") dashpots

I figured the later dashpots were filled with a proprietary damping fluid and the piston in cylinder motion was impeded by a nifty hydraulic principal where the transfer of fluid from the bottom of the chamber to it's top through the vent hole in the piston damped the vertical cue motion of the tonearm. For this to work properly, air bubbles and air traps had to be eliminated so the the entire assembly was vacuumed and sealed. This explains the 3rd screw (unmarked) in the dashpot cover - which I suspect was the point of suction. This also explains the seal and "O" ring.
It looks like this:

dNtEAPV.jpg


Sometimes the inside looks like this:

mpHhcdi.jpg


A round hole through which the cue rod emerges is visible from the top of the dashpot cover:

uQAkTFM.jpg


We hack this mechanism when we open up the cover, release the two mounting screws and replace the stock SME damping fluid with silicon oil around the piston. We basically replace the designed hydraulic damping with the silicon's friction damping. We also render the seal and "O" ring redundant and unnecessary - and naturally, we don't need any vacuuming . We achieve the same goal - but as far as SME is concerned, those dashpots are "unserviceable" except for in the factory where vacuum can be applied through that 3rd screw.

New 'improved' dashpots:

The new design is the only one SME calls 'user serviceable'. Their service manual shows an exploded view of the design. Note the cross-section hole in the dashpot cover - through which the arm lift cue 'banana' bar can be attached to the cue rod:

WVH183v.png


The inside of this dashpot is a little different:

VLCe5VD.jpg


It still uses the piston/cylinder impedance damping - except I'm not clear whether or not SME had changed the damping fluid to something more viscous, so the seals and "O" ring are now redundant by default. In any case we service it in the same way as the previous version and use a thin layer of 300KcSt silicon oil around the piston rim.

This is just my view of it - nothing official, certainly not an SME analysis but I hope this helps nonetheless.
I have the latest dashpot on my 3009, seeking advice on how to get the bronze dashpot removed in order to add silicon.
All replies are welcome.
I tried to pull it up but was worried I'd damage it.
 
Thanks for the great thread. I need to fix one of mine but it might take me a bit to get to it so I saved this thread to pdf
 
I took off the cover and top plate, put a few drops of silicone in it and put it all back together. I think it helped, but it could be wishful thinking.
 
I took off the cover and top plate, put a few drops of silicone in it and put it all back together. I think it helped, but it could be wishful thinking.
Mine keeps drying out over time. I don't even bother with adding silicone oil anymore. I've kinda learned to move the cue arm slowly until the needle hits the groove.

:)
 
I took off the cover and top plate, put a few drops of silicone in it and put it all back together. I think it helped, but it could be wishful thinking.
If the lift and damping works, it works. There's not much room for wishful thinking, unless possibly the arm later on starts dropping undamped again. If so, it should be because previously trapped air has risen inside the cylinder. That should be fixable by adding more silicone oil. Rinse and repeat.
 
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Mine keeps drying out over time. I don't even bother with adding silicone oil anymore. I've kinda learned to move the cue arm slowly until the needle hits the groove.

:)
A 500k silicone oil doesn't evaporate. Unless it has dripped out under the cylinder, I think that air trapped under the silicone you added has been pumped around by the piston, leaving enough of air underneath it to leave the remaining silicone there unable to carry the load from the arm. You could try adding more oil and then waiting for it to - slooowly - flow into place, probably with several repeats. This is the tricky part to get right without a vacuum chamber.

On the other hand, as you've seen, the damping isn't really necessary, if one is a bit careful.
 
A 500k silicone oil doesn't evaporate. Unless it has dripped out under the cylinder, I think that air trapped under the silicone you added has been pumped around by the piston, leaving enough of air underneath it to leave the remaining silicone there unable to carry the load from the arm. You could try adding more oil and then waiting for it to - slooowly - flow into place, probably with several repeats. This is the tricky part to get right without a vacuum chamber.

On the other hand, as you've seen, the damping isn't really necessary, if one is a bit careful.
Well, the oil goes somewhere. I don't see leaks.

Anyhow, I adapt rather than keep playing around with the arm. The darn thing is fiddly to me. Once I set all the parameters, I try to keep the great SME Gods happy. They get angry if I play around with their creations too much.

Leave the arm alone, and it's one of the most consistent, reliable tonearms that I've ever owned.

The Technics arm and setup are a lot easier to adjust. Not as fiddly as the SME, but similar reliability.
 
Well, the oil goes somewhere. I don't see leaks.

Anyhow, I adapt rather than keep playing around with the arm. The darn thing is fiddly to me. Once I set all the parameters, I try to keep the great SME Gods happy. They get angry if I play around with their creations too much.

Leave the arm alone, and it's one of the most consistent, reliable tonearms that I've ever owned.

The Technics arm and setup are a lot easier to adjust. Not as fiddly as the SME, but similar reliability.
I'd do the same if it were my arm. The oil is still there at the bottom of the well, but with too much air around it.
 
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