goldwax
dozy ming-mong
Not true. They were designed for hi-fi home use but were adopted by DJs because of their durability and other factors.
So why not an SL1200 instead of a Rega P3
- Thread starter avole
- Start date
- Status
slate1
Well-Known Member
Wow.... the more things change, the more they stay the same!
As someone who has actually owned Rega's (P3, P5), KAB mod'd SL-1200's, and various other tables through the years (Sota, JA Michell, Roksan, etc.) - here's my take...
They're both outstanding tables! You can't go wrong with either, but the SL-1200 does need some mods to make it worthy. My main table is KAB mod'd SL-1200 and I'm confident it would be right at home with your system, but there's a serious caveat you must understand.
Here's the thing - I see posts all the time pointing to the SL-1200 tonearm as the "weak-point" of the table. As someone who has run an RB-301 and a Jelco SA-750D on my SL-1200, I say "Bull-$#!+"!
The arm isn't the weakpoint on the stock SL-1200, the stock tonearm WIRE is! It's complete and utter crap and if you can't replace it, I can't recommend the table up against the P3-24.
So, with that I'll say this, avole, if you're choices are a STOCK SL-1200 or a Rega P-3, get the Rega.... yeah, I know, I'm shocked too...
As someone who has actually owned Rega's (P3, P5), KAB mod'd SL-1200's, and various other tables through the years (Sota, JA Michell, Roksan, etc.) - here's my take...
They're both outstanding tables! You can't go wrong with either, but the SL-1200 does need some mods to make it worthy. My main table is KAB mod'd SL-1200 and I'm confident it would be right at home with your system, but there's a serious caveat you must understand.
Here's the thing - I see posts all the time pointing to the SL-1200 tonearm as the "weak-point" of the table. As someone who has run an RB-301 and a Jelco SA-750D on my SL-1200, I say "Bull-$#!+"!
The arm isn't the weakpoint on the stock SL-1200, the stock tonearm WIRE is! It's complete and utter crap and if you can't replace it, I can't recommend the table up against the P3-24.
So, with that I'll say this, avole, if you're choices are a STOCK SL-1200 or a Rega P-3, get the Rega.... yeah, I know, I'm shocked too...
Last edited:
beatcomber
AK Member
I wouldn't mind discussing this point a bit more.
I'd like to upgrade my SL-1200, and have been attracted to the Jelco, but can't really afford it now. Is a tonearm re-wiring (and KAB damping) really the same level of improvement, or even close to it?
slate1
Well-Known Member
I found the stock wiring (tonearm and interconnect) on the SL-1200MK2 to be horrible and the primary contributor to what many refer to as the SL-1200's "dark" sound. If yours is a MK5G (not a MK2 or MK5) then this may not apply as it supposedly has upgraded wire already - although I've never heard the 5G to assess.
I had Kevin at KAB replace the stock SL-1200MK2 internal wire with Cardas tonearm wire and terminate it with a 5-pin DIN connector that I use an Ultimate Cables C4 DIN -> RCA tonearm cable with. This made a monumental improvement in the sound.
Later, I wanted to try a couple of different arms on the SL-1200 just to see what all the fuss was about (and I like tinkering with things... and I'm a glutton for punishment...)
The first thing I did was purchase a SoundSupports UK armboard and a Rega RB-301 arm. The newer 301 arm is supposed to have improved wiring over the prior RB-300 arm.
I did not like this combination at all - it just seemed to suck all the life back out of the table and didn't seem to have nearly as much control over the stylus in the groove as the stock arm. It was slightly less "dark" than the stock arm with the stock wiring, but not much. I didn't care for the combo at all.
Then, I purchased a top-of-the-line Jelco SA-750D and the Sound-HiFi UK mounting board for it with the Jelco tonearm cable. This was an improvement over the Rega arm on the SL-1200, but still didn't sound as good to me as the KAB rewired stock arm. With one exception - when mated with a Denon DL-103R cartridge.
The Jelco and DL-103R sound fabulous together; if I were going to run nothing but the Denon cartridge, I would have kept the Jelco on the table. Alas, I'm not a huge fan of the low compliance DL-103 and want to be able to roll relatively higher compliance MM's in as well as most of my favorite cartridges fall in this category. Again, the Jelco with many of my MM's didn't seem to maintain the effortless control the stock arm exhibits.
Bottom line, and to answer your question, IN MY OPINION (which is worth less than zip, by the way!) the best all around performer is the KAB mod'd arm - get it rewired by KAB, get the KAB fluid damper and you're ready for any cartridge you can throw at it.
beatcomber
AK Member
Fantastic, thank you for this detailed info.
You've also saved me hundreds of dollars too!
You've also saved me hundreds of dollars too!
slate1
Well-Known Member
melofelo
Addicted Member
not sure i agree with this... i've been reading british hi-fi magazines since 1982... and i've never seen a rega turntable advertisement in a single one of them...all the more strange for a british manufacturer struggling to stay alive in the face of imports from the far east..not to mention the digital 'perfect sound forever' brigade throwing in their tuppence worth
why ? they didn't need to advertise...i imagine keeping up with demand kept them busy enough as it was...
and as for designing a good turntable... well..you'd have a difficult time finding a tonearm prior to the original rb250 and rb300 that featured a single piece casting 'tapered' armtube with integral headshell...and unheard of at their original selling prices..
in the early 80's..it took someone intrepid to invest in designing a good sounding affordable turntable when cd's were laying serious turntable manufacturers to waste left right and center...
leaving off the flashing lights,bells and whistles and focusing on the parts of the turntable that actualy benefit the retrieval of groove information seemed to be his original intent...that he managed it so elegantly is the reason i think rega are still in business...
the sole reason technics are still selling 1200's is simply because during the 90's and 2000's most dj's worth their salt preferred to spin vinyl... and there was nothing more rugged than the technics tables for this purpose..that they happen to be a good sounding direct drive deck is a credit to technics...
that they are still the only new direct drive deck worth buying at this end of the market is simply because they recouped their original R&D costs decades ago..
ignoring either product based on hearsay would be to ignore the most important evaluating tool...your own ears...
specs alone wont ensure that a turntable sounds good...common sense engineering will...or there would still be tons of direct drive and linear tracking turntables selling for $200 ..:scratch2:
Last edited:
Reading too many forums, eh?
This is a very good point, and if you read other forums about the Jelco/Denon combo, (or Jelco/other LOMC low comp cartridges), you'll find almost unanimous agreement that swapping the arm was the correct choice, and gives the best sound.
Is it because the Denon just sounds better with the Jelco on the 1200?
Is it possible a Dynavector 20X sounds better on a KAB rewire/fluid damper than the Dynavector mounted on a Jelco? Or for that matter a lot of MM's?
My opinion is < zip too, but I agree with the above, and I also think it's just about matching.
Last edited:
melofelo
Addicted Member
has anyone actually measured the rega's speed while the stylus is in a record groove ? the 'regas-run-too-fast' speed critics seem to ignore the slowing effect of dynamic drag when they use a strobe disc alone...its something you can 'see' happening on many of those cheesy 1980s direct drive turntables without quartz lock that use a lightweight platter...steady spead at the beginning of a record..speed begins to creep forward the closer the stylus gets to the centre...
99% of those said cheap direct drive decks had worse isolation than either the p2 or p3..and would have sounded better on a wall shelf also..unless you had a rumble filter on your amp...
KentTeffeteller
Gimpus Stereophilus!
I enjoy Rega turntables and they have excellent qualities. I love their overall musicality and presentation. However, they also have disadvantages. The big one for me which is difficult to overcome is the pitch stability. To get the Rega sound I love and the pitch stable, it takes a P7 or a P9. At that level it's very easy to listen to for me. I also love the Technics SL-1200. It's advantages are it's rhythmic sonic signature, it's isolation from gimpy feet in houses with wood floors (I live with both conditions), it's impeccable speed accuracy, and it's superb build quality. I also love the 1200's ease of changing cartridge setups. I play a variety of records from 1950's mono 45 singles and LP pressings to modern 200g audiophile LP pressings. With the Rega, I would need 3 tonearms mounted for the same ease of vinyl playback. Both machines have superb things going for them, both have drawbacks. I have no axe to grind either way. My goal is to be friendly here. I love the Rega tonearms, they're among the best value for the audiophile dollar.
Mr. Lin
Lunatic Member
There's a bit of a SL1200 cult around here (maybe 'bit' is putting it too lightly), perhaps due to the fact that a lot of AK members are all about vintage gear. That's fine, but reading through these threads over and over, it just looks like it would be very easy for new-comers or those looking to upgrade to think that this turntable is the best thing ever, and it's not. Better than any sub-$3000 new turntable? Let's get serious. Better than any sub-$1000 new turntable? Not in my experience.
My point is that there's a lot of choices, many of us feel strongly that the Technics is not the be-all and end-all choice in this price range, but we often get shouted down in this forum. I think those reading this who are considering buying another turntable should take that into serious consideration. I also think the point someone made about the Technics never showing up in a recommended budget turntable list in Stereophile or TAS is a very good one.
slate1
Well-Known Member
I'm not so sure about that anymore - I was impressed with the new P3-24 coupled with the Rega outboard power supply. I still think the KAB mod'd SL-1200 is better (mine has outboard power supply, arm rewire, fluid damper); but I could easily live with the P-24 if it were impractical for me to have the SL-1200 arm rewired, especially with the Rega outboard supply.
cmb3366
Well-Known Member
Just fyi, the the post you quoted was intended as a tongue in cheek caricature of the Technics side of the Technics vs. the world pissing match. It was a conglomeration of comments made by other posters in this and other threads. It was not intended to be taken seriously, a point I hoped all the Rega gear in my sig would reinforce.
Thankfully, the mods have stepped in and laid some new ground rules, hopefully from here foreward we can have discussions without the malice and steamroller tactics that ruined TT discussions in the past.
Last edited:
slate1
Well-Known Member
Frankly, I don't think that means jack-$***! I can't ever imagine a scenerio where Michael Fremer would lower himself to listen to the Technics deck. For crying out loud, the last couple of "budget" amps he reviewed he coupled with $40,000 speakers, etc. - "real world" isn't part of these guys lexicon.
All that being said - you make some great points. People need to decide for themselves what sounds best in their system and quit worrying about defending their choices. There are lots of great choices in this price range - what's "best" is up to you.
cmb3366
Well-Known Member
Indeed, the 24v motor and TT-PSU take speed control out of the equation on all decks from the P3-24 on up.
slate1
Well-Known Member
my thoughts on that are in post #85
I didn't care for the Rega/1200 combo myself, but there are folks out there that seem to love it!
It was a fun experiment and I learned a lot... so, at least there's that!
melofelo
Addicted Member
personally..i'm grateful that there are companies out there willing to continue developing both (and other) turntables in the interest of the consumer...more analog equipment choice is a good thing i think..especially for the tweakers who like to roll their own sound...
- Status