Soldering... I suck at it
- Thread starter ojTHEd
- Start date
Not large wire, like 22ga... I'm thinking that my choice of "silver solder" was poor. I'm also going to get a new iron with a chisel tip (or an assortment), as I think the needlepoint tip is not so great for many tasks. Thanks again!
I've got a decent project coming up and it's worth the investment.
I've got a decent project coming up and it's worth the investment.
88gibson
Active Member
I just got a weller station and it makes a world of difference. I found that the rat shack irons got too hot or too cold. You can dial in the temp the way you want it without risking pcb damage. Mine is an industrial iron bought off of craigslist for cheap money. The tip is ultra fine which also makes a difference. Sometimes I have hands like feet so this iron has helped!qboneus said:
Detailman
Addicted to tweaking
If you are still reading this post I recommend Wal-mart for their 25w iron. In my part of the country it's made by Wel-lenk and for 9.95 it's great. Comes with three different screw in tips chisel, point and super fine. I don't like the rat shack ones cause they have that screw in the side and I don't think you can maintain the temp with those types.
I do much better with the tips that screw directly into the barrel. The Wally world iron heats quick and stays hot. Been using for a couple years now with no problem. Just keep it clean and tinned as previously posted.
A must!!!!!!!
I do much better with the tips that screw directly into the barrel. The Wally world iron heats quick and stays hot. Been using for a couple years now with no problem. Just keep it clean and tinned as previously posted.
A must!!!!!!!
also cleveland institute of electronics has a soldering course in their bookstore. www.cie-wc.edu
lorne
Sonic Lizard
Good move! I'd been soldering for years, and then I hit a batch of bad joints. About the same time, I was visiting a pro and watching him solder while noting his choice of tips — a modest sized chisel. So I went off and picked up a new chisel tip and a rewiring kit for the inexpensive Groot KS-40R iron I'd been using, even though I have a more expensive tool. Transferring heat to the work has been a breeze ever since. I use ordinary 60-40 solder; it wicks up the component lead nicely leaving a shiny, slightly concave, Mount Fuji shaped solder-joint every time. Thirty-five to forty watts is enough power so that optimum heat is recovered quickly enough to suit me. And many of the cheaper irons are light and easy to manoeuvre. I've abandoned plans to buy a fancy iron, but if I were doing sensitive work on modern boards I'd reconsider. Soldering is an art, and I think that it is too frequently overlooked or touted as a slam-dunk operation when in fact there are a great many factors in play. BTW, if you get into IC pins, surface mount stuff etc, you'll want the needle point back.
nukeme
Well-Known Member
Detailman said:
I agree with Detailman, I had one of those RS soldering irons with the screw on the side to hold the tips in and I never could get it to work right. I bought one of those wal-mart soldering irons with the screw in tips and it made a world of difference. I'm just a rookie at soldering but my skills have much improved since I bought the wal-mart iron and at 9.95 your not taking a big risk. Just my .02 cents
westend
Audiopile
I started a thread a while back about soldering gear: http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=85766. If you do a search there are also some excellent threads about gear and technique. If you're using silver solder and a Ratshack iron, soldering technique will be an uphill experience. I had the better Ratshack station and it did so-so duty for me. The biggest drawback was the size of the iron. Secondly, it was slow to reheat. The new Hakko station I have is miles above. Also, the metallic "scrub pad" cleaners are a god-send. No more dirty sponges and water worries. I still hit the iron on the sponge, occasionally. Hard to teach an old dog, I guess.
Good luck with your projects.
Good luck with your projects.
Mike Stehr
Poverty Audio
I dunno, the rat shack soldering irons work good enough for point to point work on a tube amp IME.
I use a 40 watter, it is kind cumbersome, but I get used to it. I had a 40 watt iron for about 10 years, then it burned up and quit working.
Bought a 15/30 watt iron, lasted a year and half. It was nice that it was smaller, but it wasn't quite hot enough for me, I like being in and out of there.
(That's what's nice about the 225 watt iron, well tinned and up to temp, it'll solder a cap can tab to a chassis in about 3 seconds.)
Then the 30 watter just burned up.
I got another 40 watter, I'll see how long until it shorts out.
They are junk irons.
But they are cheap and good enough for someone who doesn't solder that often.
I'm my case, it's to the point where I'm dumping too much cash towards these junk irons that should saved for a good variable temp station......
The RS silver bearing solder works for me, I like it better than that standard crap they have, or I'm just more used to using the silver bearing solder.
That standard stuff is like butter, it melts too fast for me....
I haven't discovered any cold joints in any of the PTP work I've done. Of course, it doesn't mean I won't ever find any......
I use a 40 watter, it is kind cumbersome, but I get used to it. I had a 40 watt iron for about 10 years, then it burned up and quit working.
Bought a 15/30 watt iron, lasted a year and half. It was nice that it was smaller, but it wasn't quite hot enough for me, I like being in and out of there.
(That's what's nice about the 225 watt iron, well tinned and up to temp, it'll solder a cap can tab to a chassis in about 3 seconds.)
Then the 30 watter just burned up.
I got another 40 watter, I'll see how long until it shorts out.
They are junk irons.
But they are cheap and good enough for someone who doesn't solder that often.
I'm my case, it's to the point where I'm dumping too much cash towards these junk irons that should saved for a good variable temp station......
The RS silver bearing solder works for me, I like it better than that standard crap they have, or I'm just more used to using the silver bearing solder.
That standard stuff is like butter, it melts too fast for me....
I haven't discovered any cold joints in any of the PTP work I've done. Of course, it doesn't mean I won't ever find any......
Brian4561
Active Member
I, too, suck at soldering. But I'm reading all the information here and trying to get better at it.
A question though--do you tin speaker wire before adding connectors or do you just crimp 'em on and go? The sight of those naked wires wrapped around the speaker terminals doesn't sit well with me, so I want to get some connectors on there. I just don't want to make a decent (but ugly) connection worse while trying to fix it.
A question though--do you tin speaker wire before adding connectors or do you just crimp 'em on and go? The sight of those naked wires wrapped around the speaker terminals doesn't sit well with me, so I want to get some connectors on there. I just don't want to make a decent (but ugly) connection worse while trying to fix it.
qboneus
Senior Member
for crimp type connectors, just crimp them.. no solder needed.
a good crimp will be airtight and stonger than the wire anyway so no need.
Tal
If you want to improve the connection by adding soldering, you could delete the terminals altogether and solder your speaker wires direct to the crossover...
a good crimp will be airtight and stonger than the wire anyway so no need.
Tal
If you want to improve the connection by adding soldering, you could delete the terminals altogether and solder your speaker wires direct to the crossover...
auplater
"Mine goes to eleven!!"
Flux Fumes
Seems like whenever I'm soldering, the flux fumes always want to waft into my face... kinda like smoke follows a fool I guess...
Try to be sure and use good ventilation, even with rosin types... I've become good dodging that snake of fumes rising from the joint, but a good fan works best...:yes:
I've heavily nickel plated all my tips, then tinned them well with plenty of flux... they don't oxidize and corrode like the copper surface ones... seem to last forever.. hmmn maybe a product here, eh?
John L.
Seems like whenever I'm soldering, the flux fumes always want to waft into my face... kinda like smoke follows a fool I guess...
Try to be sure and use good ventilation, even with rosin types... I've become good dodging that snake of fumes rising from the joint, but a good fan works best...:yes:
I've heavily nickel plated all my tips, then tinned them well with plenty of flux... they don't oxidize and corrode like the copper surface ones... seem to last forever.. hmmn maybe a product here, eh?
John L.
Hrmm... I just noticed that qboneus said to just crimp and go. I'm not sure about all crimp connections being airtight - at least, not the cheap little crimp-on spades and butt connectors you find in most stores. I'm just going on observation and opinion here, though. I think I'll still tin, crimp, and tin mine where the connection matters. For quick, non-audio stuff, I usually do just "crimp and go".
qboneus
Senior Member
ojTHEd said:
from this site--http://www.virginiawind.com/tips/060801_02.asp
"Making the Connection: Solder vs. Solderless Terminals
By Jerry Sussman
Page 2 of 3 < Back Next >
Regardless of the type of crimp terminal, they all share one thing in common: the need to be crimped properly. Though a proper crimp may be relatively simple to obtain in the controlled environment of a well equipped vehicle manufacturer, that objective often proves to be elusive to the shade tree mechanic trying either to repair an OEM electrical circuit or to install an after market electrical accessory. In frustration, the tendency is to avoid crimp terminals, and to return to the familiar land of solder. Sometimes, we strike a compromise that combines the worst features of both: we attempt to reinforce a poor crimp by adding solder.
Most crimp terminals are designed to be crimped, not soldered. If the crimp was done poorly, solder won't save it. And if the crimp was done properly, solder is unnecessary. In fact, soldering a crimped terminal may weaken the mechanical connection, may reduce electrical conductivity, and may damage the terminal. As a general rule, you should not solder a crimp terminal. "
This may not even be the best description but it is what I was always taught..
different strokes.
Tal
Forgot to add..... that I think the biggest determining factor about the quality of a crimp is the crimper\die to connector mating, which is dictated by using a decent grade crimper with the proper gauge wire to the proper gauge connector.
alexkerhead
To High For Infinity
I use a RS iron and solder and my joint usually look good, unless I am having a bad day and load to much solder on the tip.
I kee a stock of replacement tips, but so far I haven't had to replace mine.
Now my weller 140 watt, that will eat tips up..lol
I use it for stranded wire soldering, never circuit soldering. I learned that lesson the hard way.^_^
I kee a stock of replacement tips, but so far I haven't had to replace mine.
Now my weller 140 watt, that will eat tips up..lol
I use it for stranded wire soldering, never circuit soldering. I learned that lesson the hard way.^_^
bowtie427ss
Lunatic Member
My weller station dates from about 1980, it's flowed more tin and lead than i care to think about. An interesting observation i've had is that all of the internal connections in the weller are wire nutted and NOT soldered, i guess this is in case you need to repair the unit itself.
I've seen many mention the importance of a clean tip, it should also be noted that the area where we want solder to flow needs to be clean as well. Solder doesn't flow on oily fingerprints, and what do we normally do right before we try to tin the end of a wire?
I've seen many mention the importance of a clean tip, it should also be noted that the area where we want solder to flow needs to be clean as well. Solder doesn't flow on oily fingerprints, and what do we normally do right before we try to tin the end of a wire?
prrtraincow
New Member
There are a lot of good suggestions in here. I'll just tell you my experiences.
1. Definitely use simple rosin core solder. Silver solder is HARDER to work with, not easier.
2. Use THIN solder. .022" or so. Thicker solder is much harder to work with.
3. I have a bench Ungar soldering station, and I love it. But I only have it because my company was throwing it out (fools.... it works perfectly). You don't need such an expensive iron.
4. My other iron, which I use for portable work, is an OLD Radio Shack iron. This is one of the ones from at least a decade ago or more, where you could buy the handle, and then separately buy a screw-in ceramic element for whatever heat power you wanted (mine is 25 watt). You could also buy cast iron screw-in tips for these, which I SWEAR BY. More on that below.
5. As far as I'm concerned, all the other Radio Shack irons, and I've tried a few, are sheer agony to work with. The main problem is the copper or "plated" tips they come with. In a very short time, they become pitted, warped, and won't tin worth a damn. Then you have to keep polishing/sanding/cleaning/praying to keep them clean and tinned. The cast iron tips take solder beautifully and hold up forever. I know they still sell those tips in Radio Shack as accessories. If they sell one that fits your iron, BUY IT.
6. Chisel tip, DEFINITELY. Unless you are doing ultra-fine work where you must have a precise point, chisels transfer more heat faster and are much easier to work with.
7. Wet sponge - an absolute MUST. You have to tin your soldering iron tip with some solder and keep it wiped and CLEAN while you are working, otherwise, the tip becomes a dark colored, unusable mess.
Summary:
THIN rosin core solder
Cast iron, CHISEL tip
Wet sponge.
What is my background? Well, I'm not a professional electronics assembler or anything like that, so I'm certainly no "authority." But I've done a lot of soldering - assembling things like Heathkits and Dynaco kits, as well as doing a lot of soldering on my model railroad, and building custom circuits for my model railroad with PC boards I etched myself, plus a bit of tiny surface-mount soldering where you better have steady hands and an optivisor. So my list above is based on years of practical experience, hard-learned lessons, and plenty of failures as well as successes.
1. Definitely use simple rosin core solder. Silver solder is HARDER to work with, not easier.
2. Use THIN solder. .022" or so. Thicker solder is much harder to work with.
3. I have a bench Ungar soldering station, and I love it. But I only have it because my company was throwing it out (fools.... it works perfectly). You don't need such an expensive iron.
4. My other iron, which I use for portable work, is an OLD Radio Shack iron. This is one of the ones from at least a decade ago or more, where you could buy the handle, and then separately buy a screw-in ceramic element for whatever heat power you wanted (mine is 25 watt). You could also buy cast iron screw-in tips for these, which I SWEAR BY. More on that below.
5. As far as I'm concerned, all the other Radio Shack irons, and I've tried a few, are sheer agony to work with. The main problem is the copper or "plated" tips they come with. In a very short time, they become pitted, warped, and won't tin worth a damn. Then you have to keep polishing/sanding/cleaning/praying to keep them clean and tinned. The cast iron tips take solder beautifully and hold up forever. I know they still sell those tips in Radio Shack as accessories. If they sell one that fits your iron, BUY IT.
6. Chisel tip, DEFINITELY. Unless you are doing ultra-fine work where you must have a precise point, chisels transfer more heat faster and are much easier to work with.
7. Wet sponge - an absolute MUST. You have to tin your soldering iron tip with some solder and keep it wiped and CLEAN while you are working, otherwise, the tip becomes a dark colored, unusable mess.
Summary:
THIN rosin core solder
Cast iron, CHISEL tip
Wet sponge.
What is my background? Well, I'm not a professional electronics assembler or anything like that, so I'm certainly no "authority." But I've done a lot of soldering - assembling things like Heathkits and Dynaco kits, as well as doing a lot of soldering on my model railroad, and building custom circuits for my model railroad with PC boards I etched myself, plus a bit of tiny surface-mount soldering where you better have steady hands and an optivisor. So my list above is based on years of practical experience, hard-learned lessons, and plenty of failures as well as successes.