Some Empire Turntable History

[reverend13]

Quick question on the 698 — Anyone happen to know where I can find an aftermarket part to use for the cue platform as mine is missing? I see from pics that it’s flat and curved on top, then runs at a 90 degree angle down the side. Suppose I could fabricate my own from plastic or rubber?

Thanks again

 

[milesaway1]

Very impressive investigation of history!

 

[bolero]

Quick question on the 698 — Anyone happen to know where I can find an aftermarket part to use for the cue platform as mine is missing? I see from pics that it’s flat and curved on top, then runs at a 90 degree angle down the side. Suppose I could fabricate my own from plastic or rubber?

Thanks again

View attachment 3218872

Hmm I think you might be able to make something out of a flat piece of metal. I'm not sure how it attaches to that part though: the threads are for raising & lowering it via those small pinholes in the side. There was a tool that came with the TT that fits in there, but any small rod would probably work to adjust the height.

Maybe the platform was threaded onto the top?

It has holes in it so the rubber doesn't slide around, the rubber has 2x little nubs that fit into the holes. I had to trim one of mine off though, as the rubber expanded over time & wouldn't sit flat anymore.

 

[bolero]

Was your tech able to determine if the cue shaft is gummed up as empirelvr mentioned a while back or is it able to be moved manually? Coincidentally, I recently adjusted the height of the cue arm on my 698 and after I did that, the cueing stopped working. I was concerned that I may have broken something but after fiddling with it a little, I found that by setting it in the down position and applying a slight downward pressure, the cuing became unstuck and returned to normal operation. Even the user instructions mentions that the cueing can stick in the up position:

"Note: The speed of the cueing may be adjusted by rotating the control located under the right front of the turntable. This control may also prove helpful if the cueing seems to stick slightly in the cue up position."

I believe that turning up the cueing speed setting increases the voltage applied to the lift coil which may help unstick the cueing.

If there doesn't appear to be a mechanical issue, I'd check the voltage between TP4 and TP2 in the up and down position. In the up position, the voltage should be 4 VDC minimum and in the down position, the voltage should be 1 VDC maximum. So while your tech may have measured voltage at the coil assembly, it's also essential that a low voltage is provided by the driver transistor (Q4) at TP4 with the cueing in the down positon in order to activate the coil which pulls down the cue lift arm. If the voltage doesn't go low in the down position, it may suggest that Q4 is defective. Otherwise, the lift coil may be open.

This is a useful post, thanks!

My 698 started doing this: even though the cue buttons both work, the "down" light doesn't illuminate, and the arm doesn't drop. So I was looking at the schematic & had come to the same conclusion re: TP4 &TP2. I just popped in here to do a search before I pulled everything apart.

It would eventually drop the arm after a few minutes ( and the LED would illuminate ) so I've been putting it off. But it's getting worse; time to address it.

 

[bolero]

FYI the LED was dead/dying: since it's in the circuit as a diode the arm ctrl won't drop. So if anyone else has this problem check the LED first, it's an easy fix & pulls right out of the holder, no soldering required.

 

[drjjpdc]

Maybe this is a negative question at the end of a fantastic thread, but I got to ask. I love my 598 Mark III, but is there a time in the future where it might become a non-working artistic decoration? We know about the tonearm cable 5 pin connection problems in getting one. Has anybody here ever replaced the 990 TA which would eliminate that problem?

 

[empirelvr]

Maybe this is a negative question at the end of a fantastic thread, but I got to ask. I love my 598 Mark III, but is there a time in the future where it might become a non-working artistic decoration? We know about the tonearm cable 5 pin connection problems in getting one. Has anybody here ever replaced the 990 TA which would eliminate that problem?

I've managed to install a SME 3009 (non-removeable headshell) on one of my 598's, but it was a big deal. The arm wand had to be shortened, had to use a slotted headshell, and the 990 mounting hole had to be drilled out some to accommodate the SME pillar. It works and works well but if I had to do it again....

There ARE two drop-in arms that can be used. They are Jelco's though so they might be getting scarce. Esoteric Sound sells them: https://www.esotericsound.com/ArmsAndHeadshells.htm

 

[doug s.]

Maybe this is a negative question at the end of a fantastic thread, but I got to ask. I love my 598 Mark III, but is there a time in the future where it might become a non-working artistic decoration? We know about the tonearm cable 5 pin connection problems in getting one. Has anybody here ever replaced the 990 TA which would eliminate that problem?

you can always get a different tonearm. but there is no issue whatsoever sourcing a different connector. plenty of info in this thread and elsewhere.

doug s

 

[reverend13]

I replaced the arm in my 698 since it had no headshell and they are basically unobtainable. Dropped in a Jelco 750D with Hana SL and pretty happy with the results. This 698 was in pieces when I got it and was rethinking if it was salvageable. Effort paid off so far.

 

[drjjpdc]

I've managed to install a SME 3009 (non-removeable headshell) on one of my 598's, but it was a big deal. The arm wand had to be shortened, had to use a slotted headshell, and the 990 mounting hole had to be drilled out some to accommodate the SME pillar. It works and works well but if I had to do it again....

There ARE two drop-in arms that can be used. They are Jelco's though so they might be getting scarce. Esoteric Sound sells them: https://www.esotericsound.com/ArmsAndHeadshells.htm

That is good news at this time, thank you.

 

[bolero]

I just installed a 4000Diii cart & stylus on my 698 & am chasing down some hum.

What is the 698 headshell made out of? Do I need plastic spacers so the metal cart doesn't make contact with it?

Also does it matter if the 2x ground wires from the LR cart outputs touch each other? Hard to tell if they are but it's possible

Thx!

 

[russdall]

Yes.....Make sure cartridge/headshell wiring is not touching and everything is wired correctly .

 

[empirelvr]

I just installed a 4000Diii cart & stylus on my 698 & am chasing down some hum.

What is the 698 headshell made out of? Do I need plastic spacers so the metal cart doesn't make contact with it?

Also does it matter if the 2x ground wires from the LR cart outputs touch each other? Hard to tell if they are but it's possible

Thx!

The headshell is metal. It might be worthwhile to try a plastic spacer, but first, is this the kind of hum that gets worse as you put your hand near the cart? And does it really goes buzz if you touch any metal part of the cart/headshell? If so, that is related to a ground loop from the metal shell/metal cart body. Removal of the copper ground strap on the cart should fix that up if a plastic spacer doesn't work.

If it's just a steady low level hum that doesn't vary, that sounds more like a hum field issue from a nearby AC transformer or an AC ground loop. I think the AC plug on the 698 isn't polarized. You might try turning it around and see what happens to the hum, if anything. And make sure to not have the AC cord and RCA signal cables running parallel for any length. Try to cross them at 90 degrees if you can.

Technically, the L/R grounds all terminate at the same point by the time the RCA plugs are put in your preamp/receiver so that really shouldn't be an issue, but what the hey...try to not let them touch if they are.

 

[bolero]

Thanks both!

It's a low level hum that increases with the volume knob, wasn't doing it with my old cart but that had a wooden case. let me try those out.

 

[ravelax]

What is the 698 headshell made out of? Do I need plastic spacers so the metal cart doesn't make contact with it?

Not familiar with this turntable, but my NOS Empire 2000E cartridge came with a thin piece of plastic to put between the cartridge mounting clip and a metal headshell to avoid ground issues and hum. You could try a piece of tape on top of the mounting clip where it contacts the headshell.

 

[bolero]

Ok I just put that clear piece of plastic between the headshell & cart, made no difference. It did make it much easier to reinstall though, as it holds the screws on! So, useful in that regard.

The hum is very low level, inaudible under music but it's there. Only present when the TT is on, and it's not the TT ground wire as I disconnected that & the noise was really bad. I wanted to be sure TT ground was solid anyway.

I don't believe it's a mechanical rumble, will investigate the TT motor next. I recall there are a couple lube points you need to hit, once a decade or so? Pabst motor I think.

Here's a couple pics: for the previous xart I removed the handle & made those ( ugly but effective ) black sliders so I could use topmount carts. It a pain in the ass to use the bottom mount Empires, which is why I never had this NOS 4000Diii installed before.

Plus my other cart sounded great, and with the fragility of these headshells I haven't been keen to swap carts often. If they weren't so delicate I'd have removed the headshell & done it as they probably intended: wouldn't be such a pain in the ass.

The 4000Diii sounds fantastic though, lots of bass I see it goes down to 10Hz which is impressive, along with the 50kHz top end.

 

[bolero]

Answering empirelvr: hum is unaffected by touching any part of cart/headshell etc. I forgot to try flipping the AC plug around! Will give that a shot & check AC line || to RCA status too..

 

[bolero]

RCA plug reversal has no effect.

Now I need to find my brass (?) 45 rpm adaptor that fell off & rolled under something, vanished into the ether!

 

[Doug G.]

You can't have metal screws touching both the headshell and cartridge clip either. You have to use nylon screws or otherwise insulate them from the headshell or clip. There can be no continuity between the metal cartridge body and the headshell, regardless of the path.

Upon closer examination,I see it does look like you have insulatrors on the screws. I would use an ohmmeter to be sure there is no continuity.

Doug

 

[bolero]

Thx I'll check that.

I was thinking: the motor is just hanging inside the case, would aluminum foil do any good for shielding it so the cart doesn't pick anything up?

Or what about shielding the RCA cables? They should have shielding by their construction?