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Some Empire Turntable History

empirelvr said:
I would hold off on doing anything with the base though. You are dead in the water with that headshell being like it is. Finding another or getting the one you have repaired is absoltely imperative. Without it, you're just refurbishing a nice door stop.
Click to expand...

No door stop here! See what I found?!

IMG_7361.jpg


I have a feeling I'm going to have several more questions to ask and could benefit from, and appreciate greatly(!), your and others' expertise on this TT. Should I start a new thread so as not to hijack this one?
 
Puddintane said:
No door stop here! See what I found?!

I have a feeling I'm going to have several more questions to ask and could benefit from, and appreciate greatly(!), your and others' expertise on this TT. Should I start a new thread so as not to hijack this one?
Click to expand...

A new thread is probably a good idea.

Score on the headshell! :thmbsp: The turntable godz are smiling on you, for sure!!
 
soma89 said:
How do these empire turntables compare to more common tables like those by Dual and Thorens?
Click to expand...

A Dual comparison is kind of apples/oranges as the majority of Duals were changers. Especially the models from the 60's and early 70's. Also the classic models from Dual were idlers, not belt drives. Not saying anything against them, just the intended market was different from Empire.

Thorens vs. Empire is a valid comparison though, especially the belt driven Thorens tables.

I'm not much of a Thorens expert but I think the design of them tended towards small motors (some of them DC motors,) lighter platters, much like the AR, but with better precision, better construction, and that unbeatable Swiss engineering. Also some of them have convenience features like semi-automatic playback, push button speed change, and other options Empire in general eschewed. There are also more models than Empire ever had.

Empire's favor mass. Big, high-torque motors, heavy platters, and a spartan no-nonsense design that needs a bit more space than the average Thorens. Especially the 598/698 with it's dust cover. These aren't small tables. They also still perform to spec 50 years later thanks to good design and manufacturing. Many think Empire's still compete with today's mega-buck turntables. They certainly blow your sub-$1000 Rega's out of the water. Inaudible rumble, extremely low wow and flutter, great solidity in presentation, and "drive."

It's a question of what you like. At least with Thorens the company is still active, though admittedly not what it was. I think there are even spare parts available for a number of their "classic" models. And there is a thriving online Thorens community which can help with issues. Empire's seem to still be a dark horse, very slowly starting to get the kind of online love that Garrard and Thorens have had for a while now.
 
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ekmanning5 said:
Perhaps we can ask our moderator to make an Empire TT sticky.
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That would be sweet! :yes: What are the criteria for a sticky?

Maybe I can write another new post to be made as a sticky taking all the information gleamed from others contributions to this thread, crdited of course, along with new information I've collected since I wrote the main body of this post. Good idea?
 
empirelvr said:
That would be sweet! :yes: What are the criteria for a sticky?

Maybe I can write another new post to be made as a sticky taking all the information gleamed from others contributions to this thread, crdited of course, along with new information I've collected since I wrote the main body of this post. Good idea?
Click to expand...

I'd say. The info I got from this thread alone has been invaluable to me.
 
I thought this thread already was a sticky! It most definitely should be. :yes:

empirelvr, I don't think you'd need to rewrite it, though.
 
Didn't know anything about the Empires, but no surprise as I am new to the vintage game. These tables are gorgeous! On my wish list. Really enjoyed reading this thread and learning about them. Thanks to all involved.
 
My Empire seems to be very "bouncy". I was thinking maybe the springs may be shot. Would anyone know where new springs can be had?

I also havent been able to adjust the speed. No matter which direction I turn the speed adjustment know, the speed does not change. I installed a new belt and motor gromets. Is there something I'm missin.
Thanks for assisting me
Ed
 
Bouncy Springs

Hello,
can you elaborate on what you mean by "bouncy"
The springs in the 598/698 Empire should not go bad, but the felt piston washers can.
Is the platter and arm vibrating from normal walking around your turntable stand?
I have done nothing to the suspensions of my 7 suspended Empires, and I can pretty much jump up and down on my wood floors and not have an effect on them.

As for speed adjustments, do you have a correct size belt for your Empire?
As many of the belts available today are too wide and thick, and can cancel out the adjustment of the motor.
Is your table running too fast or slow? Is it something you can actually hear, or is it measured by a strobe and proper light?

Donald Bowman
 
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Edriz said:
My Empire seems to be very "bouncy". I was thinking maybe the springs may be shot. Would anyone know where new springs can be had?

I also havent been able to adjust the speed. No matter which direction I turn the speed adjustment know, the speed does not change. I installed a new belt and motor gromets. Is there something I'm missin.
Thanks for assisting me
Ed
Click to expand...

As MrMonster has suggested, the speed issue sounds like you received a wrong sized belt. Not that the speed adjustment has that great a range, but it should produce some difference, so I would make sure the belt is the proper size.

MrMonster also touches on something I've been meaning to write about.

Those felt washers in the suspension system of the 498/598/698. They provide that "piston" action that Empire describes, but I found that removing them improves the sound by more than an order of magnitude.

They provide a nice amount of damping, but since when my Uncle first got his 698 I noticed that the turntable didn't have the complete freedom other suspended tables had from vibration transmitted sounds like thumping on the plinth or acoustic feedback.

So in a fit of experimentation two years ago I removed the felts from my 598III and after readjusting it and all, I found not only is the turntable now completely impervious to any sort of influence from being tapped on, acoustic feedback etc, but a whole low layer of grunge and "haze" is no longer there. Plus, and I admit I cannot explain this, subjectively the bass seems to go deeper and with more authority than it did before the felt removal.

The downside is, naturally, that you need to have a really solid support for the thing now. That's not a concern for me, as my listening room floor is a concrete slab, but for others, doing this mod would make wall mounting almost mandatory. Plus you lose the ability to use the cueing facility as touching the cue lever causes the whole platter/arm to swing and jump up and down. (I rarely use it anyway. I've always been a "fingerlift" man.)

But if you can do it, I would at least try it. It does a LOT to help an already good sounding turntable sound even better.
 
Speed Adjustment

Hello Lads,
I concur with Empirelvr, from my research, the speed adjustment does little to actually adjust speed.
From the manuals and reviews I have, this is is only a fine adjustment to make up for belt wear, or to to compensate for improper mastering of the record itself.

The manuals I have on hand, suggest to use the motor adjustment knob to center the belt in the pulley groove for the speed of your choice, and then check speed.
This works for me, as this will put the speed nearly right on.
The speed problem that exists in even the best fitting belts of new manufacture, is you will run a tad fast when measured by a strobe, but my ears do not hear it as being too fast, and I have played the same records on my Empire and my Pioneer PL 630 that runs dead on by strobe. I have A/B the tables and do not notice a speed change in listening.

Back to the springs, I have one custom 598 III that has the springs rubber coated and the felt washer replaced with new silicone impregnated felt washers.
Amazingly there is no difference in sound from the table compared to my others. I will have to try removing the felt pistons to see if there is an improvement for me.

Donald Bowman

Donald Bowman
 
MrMonster said:
Hello,
can you elaborate on what you mean by "bouncy"
The springs in the 598/698 Empire should not go bad, but the felt piston washers can.

Donald Bowman
Click to expand...

Can those felt washers be replaced? And if yes, where might I obtain them?
 
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MrMonster said:
Hello,
can you elaborate on what you mean by "bouncy"
The springs in the 598/698 Empire should not go bad, but the felt piston washers can.
Is the platter and arm vibrating from normal walking around your turntable stand?
I have done nothing to the suspensions of my 7 suspended Empires, and I can pretty much jump up and down on my wood floors and not have an effect on them.

As for speed adjustments, do you have a correct size belt for your Empire?
As many of the belts available today are too wide and thick, and can cancel out the adjustment of the motor.
Is your table running too fast or slow? Is it something you can actually hear, or is it measured by a strobe and proper light?

Donald Bowman
Click to expand...

I guess what I mean by bouncy is I can barely walk by the Turntable without the tonearm skipping. I dont have the same problem with my Pioneer PL-600 turntable. Even tip toeing I can watch the platter/tonearm moving up and down. I know the floors arent the greatest, wood floor and carpeted but I also have a 60LB piece of granite under the Empire and about 200 or so records on the bottom 2 shelves of that rack which also add quite a bit of weight.

The speed adjustment doesnt really seem to be any big deal, I cant hear the difference between my PL-600 which is quartz lock and thew Empire. I was just wondering about the adjustment. I do use an 18" flourecent light when I check the stobe on the platter. the lines look to me to be going in a counterclock wise rotation. I cant answer if thats fast or slow?
 
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