Sony PSX 60
- Thread starter Rosco148
- Start date
Rey1
Super Member
Wow,
Hitting it with a hammer! It must have really hardened up. Now that you have it moving, I would keep putting in a degreaser/solvent that will dissolve the goop until it is nice and clean. If you remove the back now, you may see a trail of goop that has come out allready, that should give you an idea where the mechanism sits.
Hitting it with a hammer! It must have really hardened up. Now that you have it moving, I would keep putting in a degreaser/solvent that will dissolve the goop until it is nice and clean. If you remove the back now, you may see a trail of goop that has come out allready, that should give you an idea where the mechanism sits.
Hi folks,
Well, the cueing is working fine, but then the auto cue mechanism was all out and it would start in the beginning of the record and could not be adjusted.
So I thought if I dismantle that and regrease it, maybe that would help, so I did- now everything seems to work well by hand, but when I put it all together and try to start it on any of the settings including manual, it starts, then makes a clunk and stops immediately before it has time to start spinning. The mechanism underneath goes kind of half-way through the motion, then just freezes. The motor turns by hand, so it's not jammed.....
It seems as if there is a braking mechanism which for some reason is activating I think, when I try to start it.
Can anyone help please?
I'm pretty sure I reassembled it the same way I took it apart.
This is really depressing, because previously it played really nicely on manual at least, now it won't start at all.
Well, the cueing is working fine, but then the auto cue mechanism was all out and it would start in the beginning of the record and could not be adjusted.
So I thought if I dismantle that and regrease it, maybe that would help, so I did- now everything seems to work well by hand, but when I put it all together and try to start it on any of the settings including manual, it starts, then makes a clunk and stops immediately before it has time to start spinning. The mechanism underneath goes kind of half-way through the motion, then just freezes. The motor turns by hand, so it's not jammed.....
It seems as if there is a braking mechanism which for some reason is activating I think, when I try to start it.
Can anyone help please?
I'm pretty sure I reassembled it the same way I took it apart.
This is really depressing, because previously it played really nicely on manual at least, now it won't start at all.
JimmyEJames
Super Member
Assembly error, it's out of timeHi folks,
Well, the cueing is working fine, but then the auto cue mechanism was all out and it would start in the beginning of the record and could not be adjusted.
So I thought if I dismantle that and regrease it, maybe that would help, so I did- now everything seems to work well by hand, but when I put it all together and try to start it on any of the settings including manual, it starts, then makes a clunk and stops immediately before it has time to start spinning. The mechanism underneath goes kind of half-way through the motion, then just freezes. The motor turns by hand, so it's not jammed.....
It seems as if there is a braking mechanism which for some reason is activating I think, when I try to start it.
Can anyone help please?
I'm pretty sure I reassembled it the same way I took it apart.
This is really depressing, because previously it played really nicely on manual at least, now it won't start at all.
You're gong to have to open it back up
I played around quite a lot with all the adjustments and now it's working almost perfect, but has a little stickiness in the tonearm play about 4/5 towards the end of the record which comes and goes- it also seems to be caused by one of the peripherals, I don't know what but I'm wondering about the anti-skate?
Otherwise the auto functions are all working nicely- after I rotated the whole brake drum assembly which is what fixed that- odd that it's not mentioned in the service manual to do that.
I'm just wondering- does anyone know if the tonearm bearings and motor need to be lubricated on the PSX 60?
Thanks for all the input from everyone
JimmyEJames
Super Member
Don't fool with your tonearm bearings unless there's an issue, if so use watchmakers's oil on a toothpick for horizontal, the vertical has quite a bit of play built into it but is normal from factory, it's fine when loaded so don't fool with it
Discussed in Grammaphone issue from year the table first came out!
The VTA adjuster grease gets hard and should be cleaned and replaced for smooth perfect VTA adjustments on the fly a drop of oil on all the lock down screws too is a good idea
I have a service manual for that table I don't know what brake drum is you are rotating? There's a plastic timing cam, I see they refer to as drum that is on either right or wrong
Brake on this table is just magnet and solenoid on a lever, if you touch things and move around and table works better afterwards then you have some lubrication issues because either brake works or it doesn't
Only problems I know about on these tables is hard grease and tired caps
I'm glad you got it all fixed it's a nice table you will enjoy it a lot!
Discussed in Grammaphone issue from year the table first came out!
The VTA adjuster grease gets hard and should be cleaned and replaced for smooth perfect VTA adjustments on the fly a drop of oil on all the lock down screws too is a good idea
I have a service manual for that table I don't know what brake drum is you are rotating? There's a plastic timing cam, I see they refer to as drum that is on either right or wrong
Brake on this table is just magnet and solenoid on a lever, if you touch things and move around and table works better afterwards then you have some lubrication issues because either brake works or it doesn't
Only problems I know about on these tables is hard grease and tired caps
I'm glad you got it all fixed it's a nice table you will enjoy it a lot!
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JimmyEJames
Super Member
You know that on this table the arm by way of the cuing assembly is made to park with the arm lift UP, right?
The arm lift is supposed to be UP when the table is off, no matter what you do with the control lever, the lever only works during the playing a record mode
Anytime the table is OFF the arm lift is up except for when you are setting up
Then you turn the table on, raise lifter lever, move arm towards platter and while platter is spinning UNPLUG the table and stop platter simultaneously from turning at that exact instant
Then the lever will work like most tables and you can set your VTF and the like
The arm lift is supposed to be UP when the table is off, no matter what you do with the control lever, the lever only works during the playing a record mode
Anytime the table is OFF the arm lift is up except for when you are setting up
Then you turn the table on, raise lifter lever, move arm towards platter and while platter is spinning UNPLUG the table and stop platter simultaneously from turning at that exact instant
Then the lever will work like most tables and you can set your VTF and the like
Hi JimmyEJames,
Thanks for the great advice, seems like you know this turntable well?
What happened was that I could not set the adjustments for the auto return or the automatic cueing, despite taking them to the limit.
The thing I rotated is listed as part no X-4858-426-0 (Drum Ass'y, brake) on page 23 of the service manual. There is a tiny little screw with a hex head (3-701-508-00) that holds it to the shaft of the tonerarm. If you loosen this, the whole thing can rotate which then lines up the tonearm with the auto mechanics.
This was the only way I could get it to work, but it fixed all the problems after a bit of playing with the amount of rotation needed.
Them you tighten up the little screw and it is ready.
What is concerning me now is a bit of mechanical resistance to the tonearm swing as it gets close to the end of the record- like something is catching- but when I look under the table ( I have it over a "pit" like a mechanic puts a car), I don't see anything catching. Do you have any thoughts?
Ross
JimmyEJames
Super Member
Put everything back where it was if that's still possible and clean out the hardened translucent yellow and light tan grease that's everywhere and I bet the arm will behave
The only time the arm is in contact with any of that stuff is during the auto functions
Like I said in my first post I think it was, you've gotten the machine out of time
That or somehow got something touching something where it's not supposed to, or cocked, I wasn't happy to read the word "hammer" or tapping or whatever it was I've had just about everything there is stuck on a direct drive and have never had to hit anything with anything underneath a plinth
Maybe a wooden block to get a reluctant platter off a spindle maybe
I am familiar I've had the 50 the 60 and the 70
Got rid of the 50 and the 70 I like the 60 the best!
Just like Goldilocks for me, one too much, one not enough and one, just right!
The 60 has just 3 chips and a re-cap will keep them going another 30 plus they're work aroundable if one ever goes, not so much with the 70 and another tonearm control board
It's not just a good one it's a fine one, sound and build
Do you have the right head shell with yours?
The only time the arm is in contact with any of that stuff is during the auto functions
Like I said in my first post I think it was, you've gotten the machine out of time
That or somehow got something touching something where it's not supposed to, or cocked, I wasn't happy to read the word "hammer" or tapping or whatever it was I've had just about everything there is stuck on a direct drive and have never had to hit anything with anything underneath a plinth
Maybe a wooden block to get a reluctant platter off a spindle maybe
I am familiar I've had the 50 the 60 and the 70
Got rid of the 50 and the 70 I like the 60 the best!
Just like Goldilocks for me, one too much, one not enough and one, just right!
The 60 has just 3 chips and a re-cap will keep them going another 30 plus they're work aroundable if one ever goes, not so much with the 70 and another tonearm control board
It's not just a good one it's a fine one, sound and build
Do you have the right head shell with yours?
Hey, JimmyEJames, thanks again- it just keeps getting better and better!
I maybe exaggerated hitting- the cueing post was jammed in the up position, so tapped it with a rubberized hammer from the top end- no damage done that I can see. The reason I resorted to this was that after 2 weeks of multiple daily application of pure mineral thinners and push-pull attempts as well as numerous doses of WD40, I had still gotten nowhere. It needed heat applied too! ( hair-dryer). So I was pretty desperate.
I did try to be as careful as possible, cause I know this is a really nice table.
When I got it, hardly any of the functions were working- all it would do is hold its speed.
I got some advice on AK, so what I did is to take it apart really carefully, then clean all the old grease off and apply white lithium grease, then put everything back again as it was-
What I didn't do is take the tonearm apart cause I was really scared to do that.
How does one clean and lubricate the VTA? Is this complicated?
My table is original except it's missing the 45 adaptor.
I know photos are difficult, but I will post a couple- if you are anything obvious, please give a shout!
Thanks again. I had a direct drive Sony PS212 years ago which I really loved cause I felt it bats way above average for its class.
So I'm really keen to have this one set up properly.
Regards,
Ross
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JimmyEJames
Super Member
Hi!
It's been over a year since I went through the last one but I can tell you this, two of the sheet metal bell crank type bits as seen in your interior photo had frozen in such a way one could easily think they were supposed to be stationary.
When I go through them and especially if it's a table that's new to me I always approach with the rejuvenation approach, that is I use a highly refined oil (not grease) and first get everything freed up and working, I "rejuvenate" the old lubricant.
DON'T TURN OR ADJUST ANYTHING! just get it all freed up and working because it is never going to be just one thing.
Once that's done and I exercise the machine for at least an hour I'll re-visit critical areas and wipe-clean-refresh as indicated.
I use "Zoom" oiler and for really bizarre frozen bits some PB Blaster decanted into a small glass jar so that I can apply it with an eye dropper, that stuff smells horrible but is amazing at getting the job done. Use PB on metal to metal only
I like Zoom a lot for final oiling as well, sometimes even where the factory may have used grease, as you've already figured out it takes several lubricant types to really do a turntable well. I have never had Zoom do any damage to plastics or nylon.
I wish I could just be there to actually assist you with it it's impossible to say which bit and where it is sticking but I guarantee you that something is
Pay very close attention to that spring loaded piece and all that connects to it at the top right of the frame, all of that was frozen up on mine
My current and keeper "60" was 100% inoperable when I rescued it.
I did not remove my arm and gaining clear access to that auto lift mechanism was a challenge but mainly because I am old and blind! The lift parts are tucked in fairly tight.
See, I am still wondering though about what you are telling me, if your arm lift was "stuck" in the up position when you got it it might not have been "stuck" at all, just up! Like it's designed to be when the table is in PARK mode. Follow me?
Those things just don't go out of adjustment on their own, they just don't, unless someone has fooled around with them
The VTA adjuster I cleaned out with oil and swabs and then injected the adjust collar screw slot with some of the 300,000 cSt oil
On the lock downs, like for the arm rest and VTA adjuster, remove them, clean the little screw threads thoroughly and apply ONE drop of oil and let it sit for a bit before wipe up
Operation will be smooth tight and positive
I don't document any of my rebuilds and I should because what I am about to tell you now is essentially useless but I did catch, and repaired, a couple of the plastic parts that were showing signs of fatigue and were definitely about the break. For some reason I am drawn to that black plastic bell crank evident in your first photo, take a good look at that, but I could be mistaken (see useless!) but I am not misremembering, there are a couple plastic spots in there that I know are pattern failures, the cracks I found would not just be unique to my example
I do remember it was a situation were because I caught it prior to breaking all I had to do was mix up some slow cure and reinforce whatever the area was with an epoxy fillet AND whichever piece it was it was black so look real closely at the pivot or axle boss that that piece sits on, the part where the shaft passes through and you ususally have the "C" or the "E" clip holding it in place, it was an issue at a pivot point where the molding was just stressed after decades of light pressure type thing
Sorry, I might could be more helpful if I was actually there with the table
It's been over a year since I went through the last one but I can tell you this, two of the sheet metal bell crank type bits as seen in your interior photo had frozen in such a way one could easily think they were supposed to be stationary.
When I go through them and especially if it's a table that's new to me I always approach with the rejuvenation approach, that is I use a highly refined oil (not grease) and first get everything freed up and working, I "rejuvenate" the old lubricant.
DON'T TURN OR ADJUST ANYTHING! just get it all freed up and working because it is never going to be just one thing.
Once that's done and I exercise the machine for at least an hour I'll re-visit critical areas and wipe-clean-refresh as indicated.
I use "Zoom" oiler and for really bizarre frozen bits some PB Blaster decanted into a small glass jar so that I can apply it with an eye dropper, that stuff smells horrible but is amazing at getting the job done. Use PB on metal to metal only
I like Zoom a lot for final oiling as well, sometimes even where the factory may have used grease, as you've already figured out it takes several lubricant types to really do a turntable well. I have never had Zoom do any damage to plastics or nylon.
I wish I could just be there to actually assist you with it it's impossible to say which bit and where it is sticking but I guarantee you that something is
Pay very close attention to that spring loaded piece and all that connects to it at the top right of the frame, all of that was frozen up on mine
My current and keeper "60" was 100% inoperable when I rescued it.
I did not remove my arm and gaining clear access to that auto lift mechanism was a challenge but mainly because I am old and blind! The lift parts are tucked in fairly tight.
See, I am still wondering though about what you are telling me, if your arm lift was "stuck" in the up position when you got it it might not have been "stuck" at all, just up! Like it's designed to be when the table is in PARK mode. Follow me?
Those things just don't go out of adjustment on their own, they just don't, unless someone has fooled around with them
The VTA adjuster I cleaned out with oil and swabs and then injected the adjust collar screw slot with some of the 300,000 cSt oil
On the lock downs, like for the arm rest and VTA adjuster, remove them, clean the little screw threads thoroughly and apply ONE drop of oil and let it sit for a bit before wipe up
Operation will be smooth tight and positive
I don't document any of my rebuilds and I should because what I am about to tell you now is essentially useless but I did catch, and repaired, a couple of the plastic parts that were showing signs of fatigue and were definitely about the break. For some reason I am drawn to that black plastic bell crank evident in your first photo, take a good look at that, but I could be mistaken (see useless!) but I am not misremembering, there are a couple plastic spots in there that I know are pattern failures, the cracks I found would not just be unique to my example
I do remember it was a situation were because I caught it prior to breaking all I had to do was mix up some slow cure and reinforce whatever the area was with an epoxy fillet AND whichever piece it was it was black so look real closely at the pivot or axle boss that that piece sits on, the part where the shaft passes through and you ususally have the "C" or the "E" clip holding it in place, it was an issue at a pivot point where the molding was just stressed after decades of light pressure type thing
Sorry, I might could be more helpful if I was actually there with the table
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Hi JimmyEJames,
Well if we lived close, I would be honoured to have you come by. And I'm really grateful for all the fantastic advice you have been giving me. And I am going to hold on to it and try to really apply it, cause I can hear that you have been through all that I have, and more.
Lucky when you're doing it for yourself, you can take the time.
Then on the other hand, you have the impatience to enjoy the results.... I'm really keen to start listening. But I'd rather do what you have and get it right.
I'm Canadian and sometimes it's hard to find things like Zoom and PB, but I'll give it a go.
Some of the other posters said not to mix different lubricants- would you recommend I clean off that white lithium grease before using anything else?
I also took a video of the turntable running through it's functions which I could out up on U-Tube. Would you be interested in that?
Also if you don't mind I'll take some close-ups of that piece and ask you to look?
What system do you play your 60 through?
Regards,
Ross.
jgscisum
Active Member
I going to suggest the obvious. I have owned a 60. Now have a PS-X7. I had the fast arm drop problem. Took the arm off and replaced the silicone. Re assembled and still had problems with starting and arm movement being hit or miss. Long story short..... after hours of lubricating and moving parts it was still binding and not smooth. Guess what, I'm looking at the table right side up with platter off and staring me right in the face were 2 RED TRANSPORT screws locking it all down. Removed them and all problems with movement disappeared. Works perfect now. The Queing did the need the 300,000 silicone replaced. Sometime the obvious and easiest are overlooked.
jgscisum, Wow! I don't see anything like that here.
I should mention that the cueing is working pretty much perfectly now.
The problem I have is not lifting and lowering, but moving across the record towards the centre- at about the 2nd or 3rd last track I am encountering resistance. JimmyEJames says it's my assembly and he's right, cause it's new since I adjusted it.
So I'm going to follow his advice and start again.
But I really thank you for your input.
How do you like your 7 compared to your 60?
jgscisum
Active Member
jgscisum, Wow! I don't see anything like that here.
I should mention that the cueing is working pretty much perfectly now.
The problem I have is not lifting and lowering, but moving across the record towards the centre- at about the 2nd or 3rd last track I am encountering resistance. JimmyEJames says it's my assembly and he's right, cause it's new since I adjusted it.
So I'm going to follow his advice and start again.
But I really thank you for your input.
How do you like your 7 compared to your 60?
I can't really say the PS-70 is any better than the 60. Real difference is the Graphite arm. Both provide very good sound. I use an Acutex 312 M series cartridge and that cartridge/arm combo produces incredible sound. Get to know the table like a book. It will need work from time to time. Mine always did. I have several good tables (Dual 1229, Luxman PD284, Marantz 6350Q, JVC QL-Y3F, etc.) and I do prefer the sound of the Sony with the Acutex. Good luck!
JimmyEJames
Super Member
The 60 and 70 arms are identical except for the wiring and the lift, the carbon fiber or graphite story or whatever it is is some sort of weirdness, they are common, with the English writing at the Vintage Knob
Because the same thing gets mentioned about the SH-165 in the article for the 70, well I can promise you the 60 and the 70 both use the SH-165
There is no difference between the arms, I am not 100% sure the wires are not the same, on my two they looked identical
You re-cap any of these top of the pop Sony non bio tracer tables and you will be dead before any new problems arise!
jgscisum
Active Member
Any table with electronics (as found in the Sony and others) WILL have problems in the future! All plastic parts are prone to failure due to aging. You will have future problems. Im a tech. I know.... I've experienced it and repaired everything from turntables to other electronic devices!
JimmyEJames
Super Member
Right! And some day mountains will be back in the sea I know but if you re-cap Sony PS-X50 or 60, not so much the 70 with more to go wrong, your grandchildren can play records on it like when it was new
That is why I have big love for the 50 and 60 over 70
No proprietary electronic parts or useless tonearm motors!
The great 1970s turntable wars like receiver war!
Just as important as design is execution and this series is almost perfect, I found one plastic part that needed help for insurance, not like other makes with lots of breaking plastic, I agree with you, I was impressed.
Very little plastic at all in these that's why so lovable to me
X-tal lock and Sony BSL motors work of art
Only 3 ICs in 60, buy now or ask for samples from TI or ADI put in plastic bag tape under plinth and they can play records on this table in 2116!
PS-X60
http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-PS-X60.html
PS-X70, TOO MUCH!
http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-PS-X70.html
For lovers of all direct drive turntables change the high voltage and power supply caps if you do nothing else!
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JimmyEJames, jgscisum, brilliant, I'm learning a lot! do you still get the original caps for these or is there some other recommended type?
Thanks!
JimmyEJames
Super Member
You don't want originals friend, you buy fresh from someone like Mouser