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SOTA Pyxi has arrived

Me too, all my DIY units had no hiss at all with nothing connected just the outputs to the amp. Having said that , MM its super dead silent, and with MC I have a slight hum. However I attribute that to my cable choice and how its run in my system. When time permits and motivation follows I will revisit the cabling issue.

I wonder if his unit might not be up to par or something went south or damaged .

Athanasios
All the units are fully tested before shipping. This includes distortion, RIAA compliance, gain, balance, S/N ratio, and, in some cases, listened to.
It's highly unlikely that the unit is defective. I've had a total of six units shipped to me, in total, for testing, with no issues.
There is, and this is not unusual, a known sensitivity to Wifi pickup as the input opamp can act as a detector, but this does not manifest itself as "hiss".
This was discovered after release- basically I installed a wifi6 node in close proximity to my TT and when doing a random Pyxi test I heard motorboating. After some investigation I realized that the wifi was responsible and the mechanism that was occurring. Future builds of the Pyxi will include RF rejection at the input to improve this, with no change in specs.
 
How is that accomplished?
A 15nF high Q, high SRF (very low shunt cap, <0.2 ohms series r) SM inductor will be added in series with the inputs. Bill Carlin has already installed them in a test unit and I've been checking it out. It greatly reduces the sensitivity to wifi pickup. I am operating, even as we speak, a Pyxi in MC mode where the MC cartridge is about 50cms from a wifi6 mesh node, and there is a greatly reduced level of pickup - about 25dB. However, it is not recommended that you do what I am doing. This is a deliberate effort to cause a problem and no-one in their right mind would do such a thing. Moving it c. 2m away reduces the pickup by an additional c. 20dB, just to put things in perspective.
 
What was the configuration you used? I have performed extensive testing of the Pyxis etc. and I'm curious. By configuration I mean, gain, cartridge type etc.
Thanks!

The Pyxi was configured in my system with the "MM" gain setting and 47kohm loading. The cartridge was a vintage Ortofon MC2000 run into the matching Ortofon SUT (T-2000). As I have mentioned in another thread, the Pyxi sounded just fine. I just noticed some hiss between tracks. So, I conducted a little experiment to find out what the source was. I eliminated the main system preamp by switching to other inputs with nothing connected and with phono preamps connected. I had three different phono preamps connected to the main preamp at the time. Two are using single-ended line level inputs, one using a balanced input. Switching between the inputs with the main volume set at a normal listening level, revealed some audible hiss from my listening position with no signal present. The level of hiss is not objectionable from a practical standpoint. This is because of the effect of masking when music is playing. I did find this a little surprising when compared to a vintage Aragon 47K, which was much quieter at idle. The Aragon was set at the "middle" gain setting and also had an SUT connected (Denon AU-S1). That is the extent of my testing. I did not connect any of my bench equipment to take any measurements.
 
The Pyxi was configured in my system with the "MM" gain setting and 47kohm loading. The cartridge was a vintage Ortofon MC2000 run into the matching Ortofon SUT (T-2000). As I have mentioned in another thread, the Pyxi sounded just fine. I just noticed some hiss between tracks. So, I conducted a little experiment to find out what the source was. I eliminated the main system preamp by switching to other inputs with nothing connected and with phono preamps connected. I had three different phono preamps connected to the main preamp at the time. Two are using single-ended line level inputs, one using a balanced input. Switching between the inputs with the main volume set at a normal listening level, revealed some audible hiss from my listening position with no signal present. The level of hiss is not objectionable from a practical standpoint. This is because of the effect of masking when music is playing. I did find this a little surprising when compared to a vintage Aragon 47K, which was much quieter at idle. The Aragon was set at the "middle" gain setting and also had an SUT connected (Denon AU-S1). That is the extent of my testing. I did not connect any of my bench equipment to take any measurements.
Thanks! Much appreciated. The Denon AU-S1 has a 13:1 ratio (22dB). The Aragon 47k mid gain is about equal to the Pyxi MM nominal gain (47dB vs 45.5dB). The Ortofon SUT has 35dB of gain- which is a ratio of c. 56, which is 13dB higher than the AU-S1. The Pyxi/Ortofon gain is thus 80.5dB, the Aragon is 69dB, a difference of almost 12dB.
If you did not normalize the gain in both instances, I would expect the Pyxi noise to be substantially higher, even if the noise is dominated by the cartridge, and not the bias current noise.
In any case, thanks for sending the unit to ASR. I will await their results with "eager' (well, perhaps not) anticipation.
What configuration was the transimpedance amp used in?
 
Thanks! Much appreciated. The Denon AU-S1 has a 13:1 ratio (22dB). The Aragon 47k mid gain is about equal to the Pyxi MM nominal gain (47dB vs 45.5dB). The Ortofon SUT has 35dB of gain- which is a ratio of c. 56, which is 13dB higher than the AU-S1. The Pyxi/Ortofon gain is thus 80.5dB, the Aragon is 69dB, a difference of almost 12dB.
If you did not normalize the gain in both instances, I would expect the Pyxi noise to be substantially higher, even if the noise is dominated by the cartridge, and not the bias current noise.
In any case, thanks for sending the unit to ASR. I will await their results with "eager' (well, perhaps not) anticipation.
What configuration was the transimpedance amp used in?

The BMC MCCI was run directly in to one of the balanced inputs of my main preamp as stated before. The cartridge used was a Transfiguration Phoenix S installed in a Technics SL-1200G connected using balanced connections into the BMC MCCI using the "default" settings except that I opted to remove the jumper enabling the 4th pole (Neumann).
Perhaps I was not clear about how I tested for noise. I did not put a lot of effort into this. But, I did attempt to normalize the volume. I adjusted the volume to the same relative loudness level for each turntable system using the same record and song. I used my cell phone to volume match. Definitely not a "scientific" test. As I said before, the noise was not objectionable during music play. I just found it odd that I was hearing noise at idle when close to the speaker, so I did a little comparison to confirm what I was hearing. When I get it back, I want to try it with some of my other cartridges without using an SUT to see what happens. Maybe loading the Pyxi with an SUT is not optimal.
 
The transfiguration Phoenix S has a rated output of 400uv. It should work well with the Pyxi in MC mode. The input of the Pyxi is configured in an "instrumentation" mode so it is effectively "balanced" with a source such as a floating phono cartridge.
The minimum cartridge load R on the Pyxi is 150 ohms, which might be a bit high for this cartridge, although what reviews I can find suggest about 100 ohms is optimal.
 
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I ran simulations with the Ortofon cartridge and transformer modeled. As it turns out the SUT/MM and lower gain SUT/MC are about the same S/N ratio at the output because the effective input noise is dominated in each case by the transformed resistive impedance of the cartridge.
The OPA1612 noise model does not have the worst-case bias current noise so in practice it could be a dB or two worse.
Replacing the OPA1612 with an OPA1656 - which has MOSFET input devices and voltage noise of about 3nv/rtHz at 1kHz vs. 1.1 for the OPA1612 - improves things by about 2dB, no more.
So, a mystery remains. I await Amir's assessment with interest.
 
It's hard to find usable specs for the Aragon 47k. Their manual specifies a bunch of things but does not specify the conditions.
However, the overload and max output levels are almost consistent with the lowest gain of 37dB (165mv overload and 10v max output- ratio = 35.7dB) so I'll give them the benefit of that doubt. This implies that the A weighted S/N ratio of 86dB is also for a gain of 37dB. It also is not specified for a given input signal level/sensitivity, or a given input source impedance, but I was able to find what is purported to be a schematic and run simulations and compare against the simulations of the Pyxi. The lowest gain setting for the simulated circuit is 36.5dB gain, which is consistent with their specs, and the simulated output noise implies that the S/N is indeed specified at the lowest gain with the input shorted and relative to 5mv at the input, which seems reasonable.
For a shorted input signal the Pyxi in MM mode is about 5dB quieter at the same gain (c. 45.6dB)
With the Ortofon SUT and cartridge the Pyxi is about 1.6dB noisier at the same gain (c. 79.6dB)
This is entirely because the input terminals of the opa1612 have higher bias current noise.

However, the difference does not appear to be particularly significant, so I respectfully suggest that @Decibel_116 reconsiders his/her methodology in trying to make this an apples to apples comparison.
 
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One other thing. The Aragon 47k is, in effect, a moderately low noise discrete opamp with the RIAA characteristic in the feedback loop.
It has 96dB open loop DC gain and a Gain Bandwidth Product measured at an open loop gain of 20 of 1.4MHz.
The feedback factor (FBF) in the mid gain region is about 29dB at 20Hz, 20dB at 1kHz and 14dB at 10kHz.
In the high gain region these FBF numbers are all reduced by a factor of 10dB or so.
The output offset is about 1v nominally, but could easily go to 2v or more, which is one reason why the clipping occurs at 10v RMS when the rails are at +/-18v.
I could simulate the distortion, but I really can't be bothered right now as my workstation is doing other things and I don't want to tie it up with a long transient simulation.
 
It's hard to find usable specs for the Aragon 47k. Their manual specifies a bunch of things but does not specify the conditions.
However, the overload and max output levels are almost consistent with the lowest gain of 37dB (165mv overload and 10v max output- ratio = 35.7dB) so I'll give them the benefit of that doubt. This implies that the A weighted S/N ratio of 86dB is also for a gain of 37dB. It also is not specified for a given input signal level/sensitivity, or a given input source impedance, but I was able to find what is purported to be a schematic and run simulations and compare against the simulations of the Pyxi. The lowest gain setting for the simulated circuit is 36.5dB gain, which is consistent with their specs, and the simulated output noise implies that the S/N is indeed specified at the lowest gain with the input shorted and relative to 5mv at the input, which seems reasonable.
For a shorted input signal the Pyxi in MM mode is about 5dB quieter at the same gain (c. 45.6dB)
With the Ortofon SUT and cartridge the Pyxi is about 1.6dB noisier at the same gain (c. 79.6dB)
This is entirely because the input terminals of the opa1612 have higher bias current noise.

However, the difference does not appear to be particularly significant, so I respectfully suggest that @Decibel_116 reconsiders your methodology in trying to make this an apples to apples comparison.

I get that you want to do everything you can to defend this preamp. But, your thinly-veiled insult is not appreciated. However, it is revealing. I have tried to discuss my experience with the Pyxi in an honest and nonconfrontational manner. I never claimed I performed an "apples to apples comparison". As a matter of fact, I believe I made that quite clear. I conducted a relative comparison with rudimentary level matching of three very different systems. Further, the intent of the testing I performed was about troubleshooting and a diagnosis - not a comparison. The point of my troubleshooting was to isolate noise. I found the noise source. Diagnosis complete. I could go into greater detail testing, measuring, comparing. But what would be the point? It won't change the facts.

Running simulations, calculating gains and loading? I suppose the implication is that all those numbers prove something? Not really. Simulations have their uses and can be a good data point for some things, but simulations can differ quite substantially from real-world performance. And there are very good reasons for this (ask me how I know). However, measurements of the actual product using industry standard instrumentation and procedures are meaningful. That is why I sent the Pyxi to be measured.

For the record, I did not set out to find fault with the Pyxi phono preamp. It has been suggested that the Pyxi may not perform at its best with the Ortofon MC2000 and matching SUT. If that is the case, then this issue will probably not come up very often. But I have not had similar issues running that same cartridge/SUT combination with other preamps. I think that is worth bringing to light. For general information, I own and have owned many different phono preamps (11 are in the house at latest count).
 
My take is that a phono amp primarily for use with SUTs would have been constructed differently.

What would be different about them? Step up transformers are designed to allow LOMCs to be used with normal MM phono preamps loaded at 47k. Of course the correct SUT is important (it must be matched to the specific cartridge specifications).
 
For one, the Pyxy has a higher noise level on the output with an MM (and cables) connected than with an MC.

One reason for using a SUT has been lower noise output levels, and I would think that is the case for many phono amps.
It seems to me that the Pyxi is not the best candidate for a MC-SUT-MM amp setup, that one gets the best of it fom the MC input.
 
I get that you want to do everything you can to defend this preamp. But, your thinly-veiled insult is not appreciated. However, it is revealing. I have tried to discuss my experience with the Pyxi in an honest and nonconfrontational manner. I never claimed I performed an "apples to apples comparison". As a matter of fact, I believe I made that quite clear. I conducted a relative comparison with rudimentary level matching of three very different systems. Further, the intent of the testing I performed was about troubleshooting and a diagnosis - not a comparison. The point of my troubleshooting was to isolate noise. I found the noise source. Diagnosis complete. I could go into greater detail testing, measuring, comparing. But what would be the point? It won't change the facts.

Running simulations, calculating gains and loading? I suppose the implication is that all those numbers prove something? Not really. Simulations have their uses and can be a good data point for some things, but simulations can differ quite substantially from real-world performance. And there are very good reasons for this (ask me how I know). However, measurements of the actual product using industry standard instrumentation and procedures are meaningful. That is why I sent the Pyxi to be measured.

For the record, I did not set out to find fault with the Pyxi phono preamp. It has been suggested that the Pyxi may not perform at its best with the Ortofon MC2000 and matching SUT. If that is the case, then this issue will probably not come up very often. But I have not had similar issues running that same cartridge/SUT combination with other preamps. I think that is worth bringing to light. For general information, I own and have owned many different phono preamps (11 are in the house at latest count).

No insult intended. It's simply a mystery, as your conclusion that there is a very obvious hiss difference between the Pyxi and The Aragon seemed, well, improbable to me, and mysteries are just begging to be investigated, don't you know.
The conclusion- that under comparable circumstances with a specific SUT employed that indeed the Aragon noise can be better than the Pyxi, and for exactly the reason that was originally surmised, was not entirely surprising. What was surprising is that the difference is, theoretically, fairly small and that suggests that the major issue is in the methodology as hearing a 1.6dB difference in S/N ratio is not that easy, even in carefully level matched listening situations.
Again, I have no issue with you sending the device to Amir. Quite the contrary. Although the claim that he uses " industry standard procedures" is, well, open to some debate, his APX555 is indeed somewhat superior to the gear that I have, which in essence lies between the prior generation of the APX units and the present one, and I would be very interested in the results.
I probably would have preferred to have it done a little differently- i.e. to have the opportunity to measure the unit prior to sending it to him, but this is not for "defensive" purposes but simply to "calibrate" the system I use versus his for future use on my end.
Oh, and the numbers do prove quite a bit, whatever your sensibilities might be, and to claim otherwise would obviate the value of sending the unit to Amir, would it not. Indeed, the correlation between simulated and measured noise in the units has, in my estimation, previously been quite good.
Even for the Aragon 47k it seems to be the case - the fact that I can extract their published specs from simulation - including S/N ratio is interesting is it not?
Again, I apologize for any offense that I may have given, but perhaps you should also consider being more, how shall I say it, careful in how to present conclusions that can be interpreted in a negative way on an open forum like this.
I have been - inadvertently - guilty of something similar in the past, where I reached a, as it turns out, wrong, conclusion based on a back of an envelope estimation, and posted it. I almost immediately did a real simulation and discovered that I was wrong and posted that result, but the designer read the original post and took (justified) offense. Had he read just a few posts later he would have realized that I corrected my error, and when he did so the "storm in a teacup" blew over.
 
What would be different about them? Step up transformers are designed to allow LOMCs to be used with normal MM phono preamps loaded at 47k. Of course the correct SUT is important (it must be matched to the specific cartridge specifications).
What should be different is the use of input devices with lower input current noise, even if the voltage noise is higher.
With source impedances greater than about 2kohms the current noise of the Pyxi input dominates.
Remember, a SUT scales the impedance up as the square of the turns ratio, hence a 35dB SUT (gain of about 54) would increase the impedance due to the cartridge up by a factor of 70dB (c. 3000) so a 2ohm cartridge would become 6000ohms as far as the input to the Pyxi is concerned, which is beyond the point where the current noise starts to dominate.
This is an interesting issue as, somewhat counterintuitively, increasing the gain of the SUT can actually degrade the SINAD of the system as for example, doubling the gain will degrade the distortion of the Pyxi and can also worsen the S/N ratio as the noise due to the bias current increases at twice the rate of the signal increase. So, in the extreme, each doubling will increase the output signal level by 6dB, but will degrade the distortion by approximately 6dB, and could increase the output noise by 12dB. In essence- less can be more in this case.

This issue also depends on the cartridge and SUT.
For example, a Miyajima Madake that has a sensitivity of 230uv, and a DC resistance of 15ohms could be used with a 10x SUT and the MM input pretty successfully because the reflected impedance at the input of the Pyxi in MM mode would be 15x100=1500 ohms, which would be OK.
 
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