I didnt see - he had brought the gear I bought to the entry of his house (very nice house) I think I did very good on the 805's (a speaker I have lusted over) they also came with the factory stands (a $600 retail) they were used as surround speakers in a HT - Mint as you can get - the MFA monos sound fantastic on the Martin Logans I tried them on - I'm going to try them on some of my other speakers tomorrow.