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Speaker recommendations...?

RunOutGroove

Addicted Member
Ok... so I upgraded my system a bit recently, starting with these Elac Debut 6.2 speakers which I've really been liking. They sound to me worlds better than the 35 or so year old Mirage speakers that I was using, with their non-original and likely poorly matched replacement drivers. The Elacs sound both more solid with the bass and midrange and more detailed in the treble. The imaging is great too and I feel like a really hear into the music in a way that I never did with the old speakers.

The Elacs are better than my old speakers in every way... but one. It seems to me that my old speakers had the ability to go louder before the sound starts to get distorted. I only occasionally play my music really loud, but it is nice to be able to do so here and there. Anyway, I'm running everything with my old Marantz 2270, which I understand is a fairly powerful amp, but not anything like super powered and it seems that the Elacs with their 6 ohm rating as compared with the old speakers' 8 ohms and the fact that the old speakers were surely had a higher efficiency rating might mean that the amp is just working too hard to drive the speakers really loud without some distortion. I have no way of comparing but I suspect that hooked up to a more powerful amp that the Elacs will go a lot louder without distorting.

I probably won't be upgrading anytime soon, but I'm curious about what speaker would tick all of the boxes for me and that I might eventually upgrade my Elacs with? I like the character of the Elacs and the fact that they have the front facing port as the way that I have them set up (really the only way that makes sense for me to set them up in the room that I have them in) means that they are close to walls (I know, less than I deal, but they do seem to sound very good). I like the fact that these speakers seem to sound good for all kinds of music; they get all of the overtones of an upright bass but sound good for rock and roll too (I listen to just about every type of music). I of course want something that will pair well with my 2270 (I don't plan to get rid of this amp!) but something that as I said will be a bit more efficient (probably something in an 8 ohm?), that will sound great at very low as well as higher volumes. I'm looking for bookshelf speakers but they could still be a fair bit larger than the Elacs. Finally, I don't have a huge amount of money to throw at these things so they need to be fairly affordable. I'm thinking of in the neighborhood of $300 or so used or on sale price. I realize that this might sound pretty small to some of you and yet I got my Elacs for just $150 (and a pair of Wharfedale Diamond 10.1s, that I use in another room that I also really like for just $100).

I keep hearing about these Klipsch RP 600m speakers, which I understand are more efficient (8 ohm, no?). I know that these are a more aggressive sounding speaker than my Elacs, but since the Marantz tends to have a bit mellower kind of sound maybe this makes the combo not too shrill/fatiguing sounding...?
 
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Since you seem to really like your Elac's I'd get a good quality used sub. 300 bucks will likely result in sideways moves with a different set of compromises. A good small fast sub will elevate the Elac's and your system to a whole new level. Avoid cheap sloppy sounding HT subs. Should be able to find a small REL or something similar like a sealed 8 inch. Double your budget and you could get a new REL T/5i
 
Since you seem to really like your Elac's I'd get a good quality used sub. 300 bucks will likely result in sideways moves with a different set of compromises. A good small fast sub will elevate the Elac's and your system to a whole new level. Avoid cheap sloppy sounding HT subs. Should be able to find a small REL or something similar like a sealed 8 inch. Double your budget and you could get a new REL T/5i

I probably should have mentioned that I'm using a subwoofer with the Elacs. it's an Energy one, not sure of the model, but it sounds very good to me and certainly makes for a fuller sound, though even with it, I feel like there's a pretty low ceiling to how loud it can go and still remain clear. As for my budget, it's twice what I spent on what I currently have so it doesn't seem to ungenerous, no?
 
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I probably should have mentioned that I'm using a subwoofer with the Elacs. it's an Energy one, not sure of the model, but it sounds very good to me and certainly makes for a fully sound, though even with it, I feel like there's a pretty low ceiling to how loud it can go and still remain clear. As for my budget, it's twice what I spent on what I currently have so it doesn't seem to ungenerous, no?

I see, Well for 300 bucks and if you still want to stay with a small speaker I'd highly recommend you find a pair of used Paradigm Studio 20 v1 or even v2 if your lucky. They'll play pretty loud and sound very good while doing so. They have surprisingly good bass impact and extension on their own if set up properly.
 
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If you would consider used, I'd look for a pair of ADS L710's. (I have a pair.) 6Ω, 93dB and can usually be found for at, or under your price range. I did pay a little more for mine, but they came with original factory stands. Really a great speaker that does all music well.

They are a little larger (approx. 21x12x10) than your Elac's, but no port to worry about.
 
If you like the sound of the Elac's you're far better off to find a separate power amp to drive them and keep them..
Finding a speaker that you like the sound of is the biggest part of the system building battle ..

I'm with David .. run the pre-outs of the Marantz to a more capable separate power amp ..
There are a lot of power amps that are comfortable driving lower impedance, lower efficiency speakers ..
You're just asking the Marantz to drive what it isn't designed drive ..
It has a low damping factor, and is a low current amplifier.
You need a more capable amp ... and it's fairly easy to find a good used power amp for under $300.
 
I have the B6.2 and they are very nice speakers IMHO. I run them in my bedroom system and they get 10X the run hours compared to anything else I own. I use them every night.

For $300, try one of these. I run a smaller sub with my ELACS, but I use the one below in my HT system and it's a pretty impressive sub for $300. It has speaker-level pass through, so it works great with vintage receivers.

https://www.amazon.com/Bic-Acoustec...ocphy=9015504&hvtargid=pla-408792871604&psc=1
 
PS - Your 2270, if it's in good shape, it should be more than enough for these speakers. Maybe use the $300 or so to have your 2270 re-capped?

I assume you have the B6.2, not the F6.2?
 
PS - Your 2270, if it's in good shape, it should be more than enough for these speakers. Maybe use the $300 or so to have your 2270 re-capped?

I assume you have the B6.2, not the F6.2?

While there may be some resale value to re-capping the Marantz, it won't be any more capable of of driving a lower impedance load than it was prior to the re-cap .. The Marantz is specced at 70 wpc into either 4 or 8 ohms ..
An amp which doubles it's power as the impedance drops will be way more capable of driving the Elac's than the Marantz.

(Even if the Marantz is so far out of spec that it's only operating at half of it's rated power, it's still simpler to just pick up another more capable power amp)
 
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I had the Marantz serviced only a short time ago, to put in some new lights and deal with a noisy switch. I guess that I could have asked more questions when I picked the thing up but I remember that the guy who worked on it said that he tested it and that it was working fine. It seems to me that if there was any issue with the power of it and it maybe it needing a capacitor replacement he would have said so, no? Those folks like to make money, just like car mechanics and so anything that they find while they work on the thing, they're going to try to sell you on.

I have to wonder if maybe it isn't the amp/power that's the issue. Maybe as nice as those Elacs sound that they just aren't designed to go as loud as some other speakers no mater what they're connected to. I have nothing to compare as I only have the one amp to test these things with. They do sound great at all but the highest volumes so maybe I just need to learn to live with not cranking these things up too high...
 
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I have to wonder if maybe it isn't the amp/power that's the issue. Maybe as nice as those Elacs sound that they just aren't designed to go as loud as some other speakers no mater what they're connected to. I have nothing to compare as I only a have the one amp to test these things with. They do sound great at all but the highest volumes so maybe I just need to learn to live with not cranking these things up too high...

How big is your room and how far do you sit from your speakers? Any idea how loud is loud (what dB are you trying to achieve at your listening position)? Is your room inherently "noisy"?

I don't listen at anywhere near the volume some folks do. I just spent an our listening and I didn't break 75 dBA

If I get a chance, I'll try the ELACS in my main rig and give it a crank. They are not very efficient speakers. No free rides in speaker design. You can have two of the following, but not all three; a small cabinet, good bass, or high-efficiency.

FWIW I'm driving mine with a Yamaha A-S301, which is a bargain-basement integrated amp. Your 2270 is more capable, and a pretty nice receiver IMHO.
 
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There's a Carver power amp in Barter Town for $100 plus shipping (no affiliation).

300 wpc into 2 ohms. Should scratch your itch:beerchug:
 
How big is your room and how far do you sit from your speakers? Any idea how loud is loud (what dB are you trying to achieve at your listening position)? Is your room inherently "noisy"?

I don't listen at anywhere near the volume some folks do. I just spent an our listening and I didn't break 75 dBA

If I get a chance, I'll try the ELACS in my main rig and give it a crank. They are not very efficient speakers. No free rides in speaker design. You can have two of the following, but not all three; a small cabinet, good bass, or high-efficiency.

FWIW I'm driving mine with a Yamaha A-S301, which is a bargain-basement integrated amp. Your 2270 is more capable, and a pretty nice receiver IMHO.

Yeah, I'm not sure of the volume level when they break up, but it seems to be at a lower point than with my larger (but still bookshelf) old speakers (which generally didn't sound nearly as good). As I mentioned before, the Elacs sound great at all but very loud levels.

I get what you're saying about the "two out of three things." I used to sell camera gear and there was as similar saying about cameras that folks who came up looking for the tiniest, but most high performance camera were regularly told. The thing is though is that I feel like I could go a fair bit larger than the Elacs and still have speakers that fit into the spots that I want them in. The Elacs are very small... at least compared to my old Mirage speakers.

I do like my 2270 and it's become a bit of a sentimental object to me so I don't want to replace it, nor am I crazy about the idea of using it as a preamp with some other power amp to drive these speakers. I'd rather upgrade the speakers than add another whole piece of gear to the setup...
 
Well if you want to keep whatever you have to make up your own mind! Seems to me you have answered your own question,change your speakers then oui.non:)
 
Yeah, I'm not sure of the volume level when they break up, but it seems to be at a lower point than with my larger (but still bookshelf) old speakers (which generally didn't sound nearly as good). As I mentioned before, the Elacs sound great at all but very loud levels.

I get what you're saying about the "two out of three things." I used to sell camera gear and there was as similar saying about cameras that folks who came up looking for the tiniest, but most high performance camera were regularly told. The thing is though is that I feel like I could go a fair bit larger than the Elacs and still have speakers that fit into the spots that I want them in. The Elacs are very small... at least compared to my old Mirage speakers.

I do like my 2270 and it's become a bit of a sentimental object to me so I don't want to replace it, nor am I crazy about the idea of using it as a preamp with some other power amp to drive these speakers. I'd rather upgrade the speakers than add another whole piece of gear to the setup...
What is your crossover for the subwwoofer set at? Try to bring it up to 80 htz to relieve some bass duty from the speakers. You just may get more loudness pushing less bass thru them.
 
Well if you want to keep whatever you have to make up your own mind! Seems to me you have answered your own question,change your speakers then oui.non:)

My question was pretty simple: what speakers might be available that would sound like my current ones but would be more efficient? I don't mind the fact that some folks made some suggestions beyond my original question, because who knows, I might be OK with going in a different direction. What I want though is a solution where I'd be upgrading the speakers to get what I want, not the amp or for that matter adding a power amp into the equation. Those responses were perfectly valid, just not what I'm looking for...

As I said, though I want to stay with bookshelf speakers, I'm willing to go a fair bit larger than the Elacs so it doesn't seem like it should be an impossible solution to this...
 
What is your crossover for the subwwoofer set at? Try to bring it up to 80 htz to relieve some bass duty from the speakers. You just may get more loudness pushing less bass thru them.
My sub doesn't seem to have markings for frequency like that. I've adjusted the controls for crossover point and volume after much trial and error not by anything technical like that. Setting the crossover point higher might relive some stress on the speakers, but according to my ears it would also make it a bit too deep and unnatural sounding. I found that if I had the crossover point set too high and/or the volume of the thing set too high that I would hear the sub kick in more obviously and I like a smoother transition....
 
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As I said, though I want to stay with bookshelf speakers, I'm willing to go a fair bit larger than the Elacs so it doesn't seem like it should be an impossible solution to this...
I would keep the DCM TFE60 on a short list, they are not hard to drive, and use to list for $249 each. They throw a good dimensional soundstage with good bass, detail and definition, and are not brash, harsh, or edgy sounding.
 
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