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Speaker recommendations...?

What is your crossover for the subwwoofer set at? Try to bring it up to 80 htz to relieve some bass duty from the speakers. You just may get more loudness pushing less bass thru them.

Good idea ... but ...
Won't help if the subwoofer doesn't have a high pass, and most don't ..
Without a high pass on the sub, .. the satellites are running full range as far as the amps concerned ..
And it sounds like the OP prefers to find a more efficient pair of speakers and accept the compromises that driving everything with the Marantz will require ....
 
I had the Marantz serviced only a short time ago, to put in some new lights and deal with a noisy switch. I guess that I could have asked more questions when I picked the thing up but I remember that the guy who worked on it said that he tested it and that it was working fine. It seems to me that if there was any issue with the power of it and it maybe it needing a capacitor replacement he would have said so, no? Those folks like to make money, just like car mechanics and so anything that they find while they work on the thing, they're going to try to sell you on.

I have to wonder if maybe it isn't the amp/power that's the issue. Maybe as nice as those Elacs sound that they just aren't designed to go as loud as some other speakers no mater what they're connected to. I have nothing to compare as I only have the one amp to test these things with. They do sound great at all but the highest volumes so maybe I just need to learn to live with not cranking these things up too high...


Speaker's have widely varying power requirements.
The Elac's are a more difficult load for an amplifier than many other speakers ..
This is likely the inevitable result of their lower impedance .. ..
But nominal impedance is a somewhat vague rating ..
In actuality a speakers impedance is varying with the music as it plays, but all speakers have an impedance range that they operate in .. and the Elac's impedance range may be lower than usual, in which case it is requiring more power than your other speakers...
 
My question was pretty simple: what speakers might be available that would sound like my current ones but would be more efficient? I don't mind the fact that some folks made some suggestions beyond my original question, because who knows, I might be OK with going in a different direction. What I want though is a solution where I'd be upgrading the speakers to get what I want, not the amp or for that matter adding a power amp into the equation. Those responses were perfectly valid, just not what I'm looking for...

As I said, though I want to stay with bookshelf speakers, I'm willing to go a fair bit larger than the Elacs so it doesn't seem like it should be an impossible solution to this...

Luck in the speaker hunt ..
My favorites are Snell Type K's but they're way inefficient ..
Other folks who pay more attention to efficiency will have to help ..
 
As I said, though I want to stay with bookshelf speakers, I'm willing to go a fair bit larger than the Elacs so it doesn't seem like it should be an impossible solution to this...

How large can you go? A really nice vintage "bookshelf" (albeit, a large bookshelf) that would probably pair really well with your 2270 is the KLH 5. It also works well turned on its side if height is an issue but you have the width available.

Are you running them on stands, or on a true bookshelf or furniture? Just asking because if you are using stands, there are floorstanders that don't take up any more actual real estate but will give you the volume boost you are after.

Where are you located? Someone may have some speakers they can demo for you.

I think you mentioned new/newer Klipsch, and that could be a solution, but you may have to save a few pennies before you upgrade. Not everyone likes the Klipsch sound.

Good luck on your quest.
 
I would suggest that you focus on sensitivity, more than size. Look for something with a minimum of 92-93db (with one watt of input). Because of your amp, I would not go below a stated impedance of 6 ohms (ideally, 8 ohms), and even then I would scour the interweb for info about the speaker's actual impedance curve (I've seen 8 ohm-rated speakers that drop below 4 ohms for a fairly large swath of frequencies). If the impedance curve is fairly benign, the higher sensitivity will help to offset the 2270's relatively poor power supply (and its corresponding difficulty with lower impedance loads).

Of course, it is true that you will have some difficulty finding small--cabinet speakers with high sensitivity (see Hoffman's Iron Law). But there are plenty of narrow "tower" speakers that have a footprint no larger than a bookshelf on a stand.

You could additionally offload your amp by purchasing a high-pass filter, thereby keeping the lowest frequencies (and their disproportionate power consumption) out of your Marantz amp. In this scenario, the subwoofer would be singularly responsible for those frequencies.

I understand your attachment to your 2270, but I would urge you to consider the earlier suggestions about using it as the front-end to a power amp rated to handle 4 ohm loads (something which can produce at least 45-50% more power into 4 ohms than into 8 ohms). By using the Marantz as a preamp, you should be able to keep most of its tonal characteristics, and you can hide the power amp, or place it to be unobtrusive. Heck, I think you can get a very, very capable power amp from Crown for about $300 and use it to drive just about any speakers you can think of.

This link might be of interest:

https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php?topic=115349.0

FWIW, I own a Crown XLS 1002 and have used it in several of my home systems just to see how it performs as a main amp...it is not quite on par with some of my "audiophile" amps, but is most assuredly not a step down when compared to many/most consumer-level amps/receivers. I normally use it to power a pair of subwoofers.

Good luck.

EDIT: All of us are assuming that a shortfall in power is causing your problem. I would be interested in knowing at what distance you are listening, and at what SPL do you notice the speakers becoming distorted? You can download a reasonably accurate SPL meter for your smartphone (free...I use SoundMeter). Your issue could be something other than clipping...specifically, a problem with your amp.

Also, as you noted, it may well be that your Elac speakers simply cannot go as loud as you want before compression distortion becomes an issue.

Use the dowloaded meter to determine the SPL at which the speakers start to distort. You really need to figure out the root cause of your problem before spending $ to fix it.

On a related note...what is the semsitivity and impedance rating of your previous speakers?

And one other question...are you still having feedback problems with your turntable? You raised that issue in another thread, but never replied to recommendations for addressing it.
 
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While there may be some resale value to re-capping the Marantz, it won't be any more capable of of driving a lower impedance load than it was prior to the re-cap .. The Marantz is specced at 70 wpc into either 4 or 8 ohms ..
An amp which doubles it's power as the impedance drops will be way more capable of driving the Elac's than the Marantz.

(Even if the Marantz is so far out of spec that it's only operating at half of it's rated power, it's still simpler to just pick up another more capable power amp)


Good luck finding such an amp at any kind of reasonable price. In fact, good luck finding any amp that can actually do so (although some very high $$ models come close).

In any case, it would be silly to pay for such an amp to use with a Marantz 2270 preamp and Elac Debut 6.2 speakers. This is nice little system, but that would be absolute overkill.
 
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Good luck finding such an amp at any kind of reasonable price. In fact, good luck finding any amp that can actually do so (although some very high $$ models come close).

In any case, it would be silly to pay for such an amp to use with a Marantz 2270 preamp and Elac Debut 6.2 speakers. This is nice little system, but that would be absolute overkill.

Point taken and it's a fairly simple system,
But it's fairly common for a good power amp to double into a 4 ohm load, and there are a lot of good used power amps available that can do this for around $300 ... even half again would be more than sufficient ..
It's a lot less common to find an amp that will double into, or drive a 2 ohm load . and if you find one you're right that it will likely be more than $300 .
 
Good luck finding such an amp at any kind of reasonable price. In fact, good luck finding any amp that can actually do so (although some very high $$ models come close).

In any case, it would be silly to pay for such an amp to use with a Marantz 2270 preamp and Elac Debut 6.2 speakers. This is nice little system, but that would be absolute overkill.

Check that .. you're right ..
I'll say common to go half again in to 4 ohms ..
Less common to actually double into 4 ohms .. but they're out there ..
I just always look for "more" power into 4 ohms and that's common ...
 
Point taken and it's a fairly simple system,
But it's fairly common for a good power amp to double into a 4 ohm load, and there are a lot of good used power amps available that can do this for around $300 ... even half again would be more than sufficient ..
It's a lot less common to find an amp that will double into, or drive a 2 ohm load . and if you find one you're right that it will likely be more than $300 .
Not really, unless talking solely about pro amps.
 
Infinity RS-325, well within budget (may need new surrounds), 92db sensitivity, and look great too, especially in the blonde wood version. I've had several sets go through here, keep gifting them to family members, one of these days I'll keep a pair. About 4yrs ago I snagged a pair on eBay in the blonde finish, NIB still sealed, my middle son has them.

3996163074.jpg

But don't just take my word for how great these little gems are, here are some comments by others here at AK.
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/infinity-rs-325-to-balance-the-karma.232428/

I think you'll find they spank your Elacs in ever department, especially bass output, these things ROCK.
 
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Infinity RS-325, well within budget (may need new surrounds), 92db sensitivity, and look great too, especially in the blonde wood version. I've had several sets go through here, keep gifting them to family members, one of these days I'll keep a pair. About 4yrs ago I snagged a pair on eBay in the blonde finish, NIB still sealed, my middle son has them.

View attachment 1655465

But don't just take my word for how great these little gems are, here are some comments by others here at AK.
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/infinity-rs-325-to-balance-the-karma.232428/

I think you'll find they spank your Elacs in ever department, especially bass output, these things ROCK.
Hmmm.... I'm on the fence about whether or not to keep the Elacs and just live with the fact that they don't really work loud with my system... or to upgrade (I do really love the sound of the Elacs otherwise). I did look at my local Craigslist and I see that there's a pair of these for $150 in what the seller says is very good shape, with the woofers reformed. Is that a good price for these? I'm not in a huge hurry to change my speakers out so if I were likely to find the same thing for a lot less later, I could be OK monitoring the ads for them.

I like the idea of the full sound WITH the 8ohm and 92db efficiency rating. Too bad that I can't just borrow a pair and see what they sound like hooked up to my system! Hearing what something sounds like with my system in my space with my music collection is really the only way that I can decide what I think of any given piece of gear...
 
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Hmmm.... I'm on the fence about whether or not to keep the Elacs and just live with the fact that they don't really work loud with my system... or to upgrade (I do really love the sound of the Elacs otherwise). I did look at my local Craigslist and I see that there's a pair of these for $150 in what the seller says is very good shape, with the woofers reformed. Is that a good price for these? I'm not in a huge hurry to change my speakers out so if I were likely to find the same thing for a lot less later, I could be OK monitoring the ads for them.

I like the idea of the full sound WITH the 8ohm and 92db efficiency rating. Too bad that I can't just borrow a pair and see what they sound like hooked up to my system! Hearing waht something sounds like with my system in my space with my music collection is really the only way that I can decide what I think of any given piece of gear...
Will he Audition them for you? Then you can decide if you like them.
 
Will he Audition them for you? Then you can decide if you like them.
In the ad the seller says that he/she will audition the speakers but also said that they're likely not to sound 100% until the new surrounds are broken in (I guess this is a thing). Like I said, I feel that the whole auditioning thing, particularly if you can't compare with what you already have is a difficult thing. I did get to audition this set of Wharfedale Diamond 10.1 speakers that I also have. I only got to hear them in the seller's garage, likely hooked up to a cheap amp. I guess that I could have brought my own music to hear, but I didn't and that made any kind of analysis difficult for me. Honestly, I didn't think they sounded all that special but going on glowing reviews, the good deal that I was getting and the fact that they were nearly new I bought them anyway. I wasn't even blown away by the sound when I hooked them up but either my ears adjusted to them or they got broken in a bit, or both but now I think they sound great!
 
In the ad the seller says that he/she will audition the speakers but also said that they're likely not to sound 100% until the new surrounds are broken in (I guess this is a thing). Like I said, I feel that the whole auditioning thing, particularly if you can't compare with what you already have is a difficult thing. I did get to audition this set of Wharfedale Diamond 10.1 speakers that I also have. I only got to hear them in the seller's garage, likely hooked up to a cheap amp. I guess that I could have brought my own music to hear, but I didn't and that made any kind of analysis difficult for me. Honestly, I didn't think they sounded all that special but going on glowing reviews, the good deal that I was getting and the fact that they were nearly new I bought them anyway. I wasn't even blown away by the sound when I hooked them up but either my ears adjusted to them or they got broken in a bit, or both but now I think they sound great!

I'm willing to bet even with new surrounds you're going to be amazed, especially realizing they'll only get better. Yes I'm that confident you're going to like these, I've never met anyone that wasn't blown away. And when the grill is pulled they are even more amazed to see the solid billet aluminum phase plug in such an affordable speaker, and they're right to think that. These really are something special.

Are they in the black ash or blonde oak finish?
 
How do the Wharfedale Diamond 10.1's sound with the marantz?
Those and the Elacs are both plugged into the Marantz and they both sound great to me. I don't really have an expectation that the Wharfedales would go loud though as I have them in a remote setup in a bedroom and never listen to music really loud there... The Wharfedales cost all of $100 and for the smaller space that I'm running them in are all I need. As small as they are even without a subwoofer, the seem to have plenty of bass for that room that they're in.
 
I'm willing to bet even with new surrounds you're going to be amazed, especially realizing they'll only get better. Yes I'm that confident you're going to like these, I've never met anyone that wasn't blown away. And when the grill is pulled they are even more amazed to see the solid billet aluminum phase plug in such an affordable speaker, and they're right to think that. These really are something special.

Are they in the black ash or blonde oak finish?
They're in the black finish, which is no different than the Elacs I've already got, but the blonde finish would be far more temping, I have to say...
 
Sure would be interested in knowing the SPL when the ELAC's start distorting. As I said earlier, figuring out the root cause of the problem is a good idea before making changes to fix it.

Also, still curious about the turntable feedback issue you raised in your thread about speaker selectors. Did you undertake the trouble isolation steps that were suggested?
 
If you would consider used, I'd look for a pair of ADS L710's. (I have a pair.) 6Ω, 93dB and can usually be found for at, or under your price range. I did pay a little more for mine, but they came with original factory stands. Really a great speaker that does all music well.

They are a little larger (approx. 21x12x10) than your Elac's, but no port to worry about.
I'll second the ADS L710 recommendation. Add to that L780/2's. Both are very nice speakers, but I believe the 710's are a bit more efficient. Another ADS model that has really impressed me are the L520's, the ones with the metal grills. I picked up a pair from Goodwill a few months ago for a decent price, and they would seem to fit your requirements. They also have surprisingly good bass and are reasonably efficient at 92dB. Rubber surrounds on the woofers don't deteriorate like the foam that most manufacturers use. I like the ADS sound so much that I now have four pair, and it seems that many here have multiple pair of ADS. Here's a link to a brochure on the L520's (you have to register to access it): https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/ads/l520.shtml
 
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