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Speaker Shootout

newworld

newworld

Active Member
Hello all,

I've auditioned the following speakers since last year and thought it would be fun and hopefully helpful to leave some of my impressions for those who have limited access to dealers:

Kef LS50, Q300, Dynaudio Excite X14, Harbeth P3esr, Response D1, D2, Tablette Anniversary, Magnepan 1.7, Linn Majik 140, Totem Model 1 Signature, Sonus Faber Venere 3.0. (added Dali Mentor Menuet, Revel M106, Proac Studio 140mk2, B&W 805D, 683, CM10, Dynaudio X34, Magico S5, Kef R300, Blade, Bryston Mini-T, Aerial Acoustics Model 6, PMC Twenty 23, PSB Imagine B)

I understand that some of these speakers are already owned by the members and even well-documented, but I thought it might be useful for people with a similar musical taste, listening space, or budget. Even for those who don't share anything in common, it would be an interesting reference point.

A musician by trade, I've only begun to realize what I was looking for in speakers, after years of owning a well-reviewed set of speakers and then restarting my search over a long period of time. To my surprise, it is vastly different from where I started and certainly has been enjoyable.

Interested?
 
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continue....any and all insight is valuable. I'm done shopping, but would love to hear your impressions of some of those.
 
Of those listed I've owned the P3ESR, Response D1, Tablette Anniversary and heard a lot of the PMC Twenty series so added perspective of these and the others would be welcome.
 
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Cool. Here we go!

Point of departure: Owned a pair of Harbeth C7es3's for a couple of years. To me, they made everything sound very beautiful, but kept in a dark well between the speakers, always forcing you to wait until your eyes were adjusted to the darkness. This was very tiring to me. I listen to classical, jazz, and pop most of the time. I'm looking for holography, openness, and tonality.

Allow me to start with the LS50 vs Q300 comparison. First come, first serve.

With the LS50, I began to understand what the criteria for universal praise was. Evenness. It was remarkably even from top to bottom. Tonality of instruments was spot-on, and that tonality remained all throughout the range. Note that the range was limited and truncated even further when presented with complex materials. Orchestral music? Forget it. It simply gets overwhelmed with the monstrosity of frequencies and mumbles indistinctly. But jazz vocals? TO DIE FOR! This is the ultimate for those who want the tangible vocalist in front of you, singing JUST FOR YOU. Same applies to small bands and chamber music. It is worth every penny. Just count the number of players before you press start.

Q300. Much cheaper in comparison to the product of the year or the century. No comparison, right? Well...

I am completely oblivious to the technologies used or how it looks. I only care about the sound. And good sound it does.

The Q300 actually surpasses the LS50 in orchestral music. In what way? It works less hard in reproducing wider range of instruments in mass, therefore sounds less stressed out about it. Less stress means better tonality? No...it's brighter and harder. Less stress means more definition? Definitely. Listening to an opera by Verdi, there is a scene when the baritone walks around behind a very busy orchestra and belts out. Now I see when he turns around to sing into the microphone and when he leaves one to get to the other. That didn't happen with the LS50. Everything else? Not even close. The LS50 is superman with glasses.

Amplication: Rotel Pre-Power for LS50, Marantz PM6004 for Q300. Nothing fancy.
 
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Interested. I've not heard many of the models listed as I've been a bit out of the loop but I consistently like the brands mentioned.

If I were actually looking to buy something right now, it would likely be a stand-mount in the $1,000 -$1,500 range. I like neutrality and detail without fatigue. I listen to all kinds of music (I hate when people say that, but it's true) but I'd say smaller scale jazz and classical trumps massed strings and exciting crecendos for me. I'm a life long musician and I know what instruments sound like so, while I like Donald Fagen and Natalie Merchant as much as the next guy, I'm more critical of solo instruments and small scale combos.

I'd definitely consider the LS50s but the Venere 1.5 and PSB Imagine Bs would be at the top of my list, leaning towards the Sonus Fabers. I like Focals in general as well but have only heard recent models from the 7xx and 8xx series.

Definitely looking forward to more comments.
 
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A couple of thoughts:

Most of the dealers have been extremely pleasant. Some have been really patient with my repeated visits. None has pressured me into buying anything. Because they are all accommodating at the least, I can relax and enjoy the process. This is the way it should be.

There are more speakers to be auditioned. Found a dealer for Dali and Revel within walking distance. This is fun. In the meantime, more reviews on the way!
 
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I'd like to add that the LS50 is a considerably more difficult speaker to drive properly dipping down to 3.2 ohms and presenting amplifiers with several problems. Watts does not fix the problem - beefy power supplies do. I run them with a 24 watt tube amp that have big power supplies that CRUSH my Rotel power amplifier of considerably more watts. This is a downside of this speaker because while the speaker is a good deal - the amount of money you will need to throw at an appropriate (preferably tube) amplifier will be fairly large.

To the question about Focal - the Focal Micro-Utopia I think is a considerably better sounding loudspeaker but second hand it will cost a fair chunk more.

The other KEF uni-Q drivers are less refined - KEF LS50 and Blade use the Blade driver technology. But even here the LS-50 has a relatively cheap tweeter and while it does sound very good isn't really up with better speakers in this regard - it has a metallic ambiance (aftertaste) although it's not bright (thankfully) like many speakers in this price range.

I think it's a great standmount speaker and you can listen to them all day etc etc - and it probably deserves the press although I sorta understand the minor complaints about it being soulless. Take that to mean that it lacks a bit of soul/emotion. TO some that will be very good - to others they may wish for a bit of personality from somehting like a Harbeth or Reference 3a or perhaps Sonus Faber (although I tend to find these to go over the other end too much to bland)
 
This is a great thread, thoughtfully laid out.
While I've been following the KEF LS50 with interest, the arguments about needing big solid state power were concerning me, but the context it is presented in by both newworld and RGA has finally driven home my worst fears.
I've loved many classic KEF speakers. I have not ever heard one pair of KEF speakers with UniQ drivers that I could embrace. I can easily source a tube amp with stiff power supply or a pair of monoblocs, but that will not remove the metallic aftertaste that keeps me heading towards fabric dome tweeters.
This settles it for me . . . the LS-50 continues that trend that just won't go away.

newworld, while you've mined the Harbeth vein, have you considered the Spendor stash?
 
Yes, please, keep this thread going. I really like the KEF LS-50's, but I am willing to go to school here. :lurk:
 
Thanks, guys. I'm glad this thread could be of use to many people.

RGA - I understand what you mean by "aftertaste." The Harbeth C7es3 had it, and it drove me crazy. The LS50's evenness keeps that characteristic at minimum. I think you are right about the LS50's being demanding of amplifiers. The Rotel amplifier, however, is the kind of amp that many LS50 buyers would use with or even less than that. I'm approaching this as a real world buyer.

Audiodon - You beat me to it! I'm going to audition some Spendor during my final round of auditions which the dealer conveniently has but I have idiotically overlooked.
 
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Just made an unintentionally short visit at a dealer who carries Dali and Revel. Typical of stores whose main focus is in home installation, there were only a few speakers on display.

Dali Mentor Menuet - Very smooth...very small. In this price range and size, it should compete directly with the Kef LS50. Quite similar in presentation, but even more limited in lower extensions. Since it doesn't even try to do what it's not capable of, it plays cleaner when played louder in complex orchestral materials. It's just missing about half of recording materials.

Revel M106 - Home theater speaker is what came to mind. It's much bigger than the Dali's and more efficient. Plays loud with funny effects. Yes, effects. Good for Thor, not for Beethoven.

Disappointing demo overall, but that's also part of this fun process, right?

Amplifier - Peachtree Nova. Sounded fine.
 
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newworld said:
Thanks, guys. I'm glad this thread could be of use to many people.

RGA - I understand what you mean by "aftertaste." The Harbeth C7es3 had it, and it drove me crazy. The LS50's evenness keeps that characteristic at minimum. I think you are right about the LS50's being demanding of amplifiers. The Rotel amplifier, however, is the kind of amp that many LS50 buyers would use with or even less than that. I'm approaching this as a real world buyer.

Audiodon - You beat me to it! I'm going to audition some Spendor during my final round of auditions which the dealer conveniently has but I have idiotically overlooked.
Click to expand...

I second the Spendors, but then again I may be biased.:yes: I did get a chance to hear the LS50's but not in an ideal environment but they still impressed. I could see where I might get a little fatigued long term but a very dynamic speaker, very well done.
 
Yes this is a good point - chances are that if one is buying a $1500 loudspeaker then their amps are probably in this realm and probably a SS amp. I disliked this speaker the 4 times I heard it at shows and dealers. I took the chance and bought them anyway based on some ears I trust. And with my tube amp I've been pleased. I just don;t think the vast majority of people will run a SET or lower powered tube amp with them - and I further fear they'll put them in rooms too big for them - this is designed for a bedroom sized room in the nearfield. Much bigger and the bass will evaporate - SS amps tend to be frequency limited so under duress they simply ignore putting out power in the bass registers - the KEF has pretty solid bass to 50hz in my room which is excellent - but I hear a lot of (doesn't have much bass commentary) which means the room is too big or the amp is a gutless wonder or a combination of both.

That said - many audiophiles who believe in the source first approach are perfectly willing to spend $5-$20k each on source and amps (basically putting $10k to $40k+ on a less expensive speaker like the KEF. When I bought the AX Two standmount $1,200US it moved me emotionally more than several $20,000 loudspeakers. The dealer has a clue (many don't) and connected a $400,000 SET based system up to it with a view that "You need to hear what the speaker can really do."

So hearing the KEF LS50 with $400 Marantz receivers (which disappera trying to do 3 ohms) in poor rooms is rather an unfair comparison.

I think the LS50 sounds a lot better than previous Uni-Q speakers that I have heard.

I tend to agree with Audiodon about metal - but I think it extends more to driver matching - drivers have sonic signatures - they had a physical sound that crossovers just can't completely cover - so while they may be able to hand off woofer to tweeter in terms of frequency response curves they can't hand over the signature of the physical materials.

When I went home for Christmas and fired up my Audio Note J/Spe and played the same cuts I've been using in my KEF Evaluations - everything became more of a one piece sounding more like a single whole without my ear listening to a tweeter or woofer. Simply bigger sound more dynamic much better frequency extremes, better tonality, resolution, attack, decay etc etc. Granted it's also 3.5 times more expensive so it kinda should be better.

I want to listen to the KEF for a month and then switch back to the AX Two. My initial reaction was the KEF had more bass depth and slam while the AX Two had a more tuneful presentation and a better upper mid treble. Both were about equal in terms of being cohesive.

I'd like to see a bigger LS-50 - one that uses an 8 inch driver and a Berrylium tweeter. it would be pricey but could really take the thing up a few notches to truly world class levels. The Be tweeters are much better than other metal types- an 8 inch would probably be more sensitive while offering fairly prodigious bass response
 
Retracing my steps...

Linn Majik 140 - I immediately point these out among speakers on display. Compact floorstander! Looks cool (for about a second)! Let's hear them! Enough. Thank you. NEXT! Really, never heard speakers that sound so...electronic...like the Transformers theme song. Yes, that's what they remind me of. I was stunned to learn that these were praised sky-high by Stereophile.

Magnepan 1.7 - The dealer notices my reaction to the Linn's and quickly brings in two upright panels. He doesn't do much talking and hands me an iPad. For a moment I'm fascinated with the convenience of controlling the source with an iPad. A lot of good music on this list! I'm gonna start with something nasty because I want to dismiss you quick, Magnepan. I don't want an expensive room divider. Britten's Sinfonia da Requiem. O....M.....G......

I listen for a while. The whole time I'm thinking how am I gonna fit this anywhere? How is it gonna look? How much space will it take? At the same time I'm trying to come up with reasons not to buy it. Openness? Yes. Clean? Oh yes. Holographic? Almost...it images really well and this wall of sound provides enough room to show everything, but it's a bit two dimensional. I think people call it depth? It's kinda like watching a huge OLED TV. Not that I have.

Whew! Found something to criticize. No matter. These are AMAZING speakers. No way you can get this performance with other speakers at this price.

But then I say it again...I'm in the real world...I...just...can't....even with my 10 ft. ceiling. In order to sound their best, they would need a LOT of space. If I'm paying two thousand and some dollars for something, I want it to be at its best. I leave the store timidly glancing over at the speakers. Move to a new place to accommodate you? Nah...

Thanks for setting the standard, Magnepan.

Amplifier: Can't recall at all. I was so emotionally caught up in despising the Linn's and being enchanted by the Magnepan's. Good enough, I guess?
 
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