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Speaker Shootout

Magneplanars can do that to you the first time you hear them

I was shopping for a turntable the first time I heard a pair of Magneplanar SMG-a's. Noticed the small panels in the room and asked to hear them, good move-big mistake. The salesman put on a Harmonia Mundi early music LP and I was chuckling by the middle of track one. It took me a couple of years to get to the point where I could afford a pair and I've never looked back.

One of the panels on the SMG-a's gave out not too long after the 1.7's were released. Budget and room constraints dictated that I replace them with the MG-12's instead of the 1.7's.

Nice thread you've started, I'm vicariously enjoying your research and thoughts on the various speakers you've auditioned so far.
 
Panels can do this on your first audition - your reaction was EXACTLY the same as my reaction when I first auditioned a panel in the 1990s. I swore I would buy them and swore that everything else sucked in comparison.

Time and more auditions later -- and I heard what they don't do. But many people love em.
 
RGA said:
Yes this is a good point - chances are that if one is buying a $1500 loudspeaker then their amps are probably in this realm and probably a SS amp. I disliked this speaker the 4 times I heard it at shows and dealers. I took the chance and bought them anyway based on some ears I trust. And with my tube amp I've been pleased. I just don;t think the vast majority of people will run a SET or lower powered tube amp with them - and I further fear they'll put them in rooms too big for them - this is designed for a bedroom sized room in the nearfield. Much bigger and the bass will evaporate - SS amps tend to be frequency limited so under duress they simply ignore putting out power in the bass registers - the KEF has pretty solid bass to 50hz in my room which is excellent - but I hear a lot of (doesn't have much bass commentary) which means the room is too big or the amp is a gutless wonder or a combination of both.

That said - many audiophiles who believe in the source first approach are perfectly willing to spend $5-$20k each on source and amps (basically putting $10k to $40k+ on a less expensive speaker like the KEF. When I bought the AX Two standmount $1,200US it moved me emotionally more than several $20,000 loudspeakers. The dealer has a clue (many don't) and connected a $400,000 SET based system up to it with a view that "You need to hear what the speaker can really do."

So hearing the KEF LS50 with $400 Marantz receivers (which disappera trying to do 3 ohms) in poor rooms is rather an unfair comparison.

I think the LS50 sounds a lot better than previous Uni-Q speakers that I have heard.

I tend to agree with Audiodon about metal - but I think it extends more to driver matching - drivers have sonic signatures - they had a physical sound that crossovers just can't completely cover - so while they may be able to hand off woofer to tweeter in terms of frequency response curves they can't hand over the signature of the physical materials.

When I went home for Christmas and fired up my Audio Note J/Spe and played the same cuts I've been using in my KEF Evaluations - everything became more of a one piece sounding more like a single whole without my ear listening to a tweeter or woofer. Simply bigger sound more dynamic much better frequency extremes, better tonality, resolution, attack, decay etc etc. Granted it's also 3.5 times more expensive so it kinda should be better.

I want to listen to the KEF for a month and then switch back to the AX Two. My initial reaction was the KEF had more bass depth and slam while the AX Two had a more tuneful presentation and a better upper mid treble. Both were about equal in terms of being cohesive.

I'd like to see a bigger LS-50 - one that uses an 8 inch driver and a Berrylium tweeter. it would be pricey but could really take the thing up a few notches to truly world class levels. The Be tweeters are much better than other metal types- an 8 inch would probably be more sensitive while offering fairly prodigious bass response
Click to expand...


That "emotional" response may be due to your bent/love for Audio Note gear Richard....because myself as well as many other cats here who can actually hear, understand how and why those $20k speakers where putting out much more love than those $12 hundred dollar speakers....and I'm pretty sure THATS on the real.
 
Hi newworld,

It's nice to see someone taking the time to cover what I see as a very diverse range of speaker options, and I'm with you on the 1.7 as I've heard them driven with a Rogue Audio Sphinx via a Theta CD Player and came away very impressed, and being an owner of Totem Model Ones - I can't wait to hear/see your view on them as well, not that I'm going to let it sway my opinion on them one bit as they're here to stay - as I tend to base most things upon how I hear them in my space used with carefully selected components around them that were chosen to form a collective whole in regards to synergy as well as a deeper understanding taken to voice each accordingly.

Yet, I too have to say that I clearly see RGA fondness towards Audio Note UK products and have to disagree with the statement that his $1.200 AX Two speakers are possible of being more moving of speakers approaching $20.000, as of late I've finally had an opportunity to listen to a pair of Magico S1s ( $12.000 ) floor standers, and being a Mini-Monitor sort of guy since my beginnings in 1982, this was for " me " the first pair I've ever wanted to own - even if it meant I had to drive them with an Onkyo receiver until I'd afford something better down the road.

But I'd never say that any $1.200 speaker has more emotional involvement where I'd be so blinded by my own choices and not believe in reality or otherwise - in the end, we get what we pay for, and to some extreme each piece is about which compromises we are willing to endure more then others, it's all about being open-minded enough to listen prior to passing judgement upon items unheard.

Diversity is good, less we all what to own the same systems?, which to my mind would be quite boring in regards to having a sense of independence.

Regards,
O_o scar
 
Now I'm looking for a Audio Note dealer near me. Look what you've made me do!

Change of subject: I felt a little silly when I had my Harbeth C7es3's. I just couldn't help but feel that they were grossly overpriced. Well, let me put it another way. I felt most of my money was going into the ravishingly beautiful cabinet.

I can gladly do away with some exotic veneers (cherry was hardly exotic). Please stop spending time on grain-matching and varnishing to perfection. Don't charge me what I didn't ask for.

Which leads me to the PMC pro monitors. I personally think they are great looking. And they are cheaper! (than the domestic version of the same or the Twenty series). Does that meet all the criteria to be on my audition list? Oh yeah.
 
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There is something to be said for exotic veneers however. I appreciate many speakers on two levels. Obviously for their sound quality, but since I share living space with my speakers, I also can enjoy their looks. It's two bad there can't be two versions of many speakers. One clad in beautiful wood and another simple utilitarian model with a lower price tag.

cubdog
 
RGA said:
Yes this is a good point - chances are that if one is buying a $1500 loudspeaker then their amps are probably in this realm and probably a SS amp. I disliked this speaker the 4 times I heard it at shows and dealers. I took the chance and bought them anyway based on some ears I trust. And with my tube amp I've been pleased. I just don;t think the vast majority of people will run a SET or lower powered tube amp with them - and I further fear they'll put them in rooms too big for them - this is designed for a bedroom sized room in the nearfield. Much bigger and the bass will evaporate - SS amps tend to be frequency limited so under duress they simply ignore putting out power in the bass registers - the KEF has pretty solid bass to 50hz in my room which is excellent - but I hear a lot of (doesn't have much bass commentary) which means the room is too big or the amp is a gutless wonder or a combination of both.

That said - many audiophiles who believe in the source first approach are perfectly willing to spend $5-$20k each on source and amps (basically putting $10k to $40k+ on a less expensive speaker like the KEF. When I bought the AX Two standmount $1,200US it moved me emotionally more than several $20,000 loudspeakers. The dealer has a clue (many don't) and connected a $400,000 SET based system up to it with a view that "You need to hear what the speaker can really do."

So hearing the KEF LS50 with $400 Marantz receivers (which disappera trying to do 3 ohms) in poor rooms is rather an unfair comparison.

I think the LS50 sounds a lot better than previous Uni-Q speakers that I have heard.

I tend to agree with Audiodon about metal - but I think it extends more to driver matching - drivers have sonic signatures - they had a physical sound that crossovers just can't completely cover - so while they may be able to hand off woofer to tweeter in terms of frequency response curves they can't hand over the signature of the physical materials.

When I went home for Christmas and fired up my Audio Note J/Spe and played the same cuts I've been using in my KEF Evaluations - everything became more of a one piece sounding more like a single whole without my ear listening to a tweeter or woofer. Simply bigger sound more dynamic much better frequency extremes, better tonality, resolution, attack, decay etc etc. Granted it's also 3.5 times more expensive so it kinda should be better.

I want to listen to the KEF for a month and then switch back to the AX Two. My initial reaction was the KEF had more bass depth and slam while the AX Two had a more tuneful presentation and a better upper mid treble. Both were about equal in terms of being cohesive.

I'd like to see a bigger LS-50 - one that uses an 8 inch driver and a Berrylium tweeter. it would be pricey but could really take the thing up a few notches to truly world class levels. The Be tweeters are much better than other metal types- an 8 inch would probably be more sensitive while offering fairly prodigious bass response
Click to expand...


I had R300s at home for a while. But after initially being pleased and all the while being familiar with LS-50s, I kept wishing that the 300 had the LS-50 driver as the mid/tweet. Seems like a natural for something like this to come from KEF.
 
newworld said:
I can gladly do away with some exotic veneers (cherry was hardly exotic). Please stop spending time on grain-matching and varnishing to perfection. Don't charge me what I didn't ask for.
Click to expand...

Personally I'm glad they spend money on quality cabinets, it also keeps the UK domestic manufacturing and craftsman scene alive and healthy which is hard to knock really. Pride of ownership is one of those things your buying into with Harbeth, if you didn't ask for it its easier to shop elsewhere.
 
Spektre said:
Personally I'm glad they spend money on quality cabinets, it also keeps the UK domestic manufacturing and craftsman scene alive and healthy which is hard to knock really. Pride of ownership is one of those things your buying into with Harbeth, if you didn't ask for it its easier to shop elsewhere.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I just wish manufacturers have more options to suit the customer's needs, for people like me who are more budget-conscious and lack the pride of ownership. :D
 
Spektre said:
Personally I'm glad they spend money on quality cabinets, it also keeps the UK domestic manufacturing and craftsman scene alive and healthy which is hard to knock really. Pride of ownership is one of those things your buying into with Harbeth, if you didn't ask for it its easier to shop elsewhere.
Click to expand...

Pride doesn't and shouldn't come with a price tag.

cubdog
 
cubdog said:
Pride doesn't and shouldn't come with a price tag.

cubdog
Click to expand...

Craftsmanship should and does, you get what you pay for. Whether owners feel pride or not I don't think comes into Harbeth's considerations for pricing, its a by product and you know you are going to be getting a high level of quality.
 
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Back for more...

I visit the same dealer again, this time just out of curiosity. I've heard so many great things about the previous version of the Dynaudio X14. I also remember a long ago listening to some Focus series speakers driven by Meridian source and amp which left me with a really nice impression. I pass by the Magnepans I listened to weeks prior and think, "hmmm....they are not as large as i remember."

Dynaudio Excite X14 - These look like the older Focus series! I must be getting old to witness this trickle-down makeover happen. Fire them up with my usual speaker-killer music. First thing I notice is the roundness. Not the ate-too-much-at-Thanksgiving kind of roundness, but a nice tapering of the frequency extremes. Whoa, did I just get technical? Exposure amps sound like this. Not entirely clean and natural, but wholesome and punchy. Immediately I realize these speakers are not for me. But for rock fans? This could be the perfect solution for smaller rooms and modest means. I think, if you can still find them, the Excite X12's are the better deal. If the DM series is even cheaper and sound the same, it would be a screaming good deal for rock fans.

Sonus Faber Venere 3.0 - The dealer thought I should give these a listen. Ok, I can't afford them, but why not? Just a switch of cables. Same music. Not the most natural sounding speakers, only slightly better than the Dynaudio's in this regard, but what is this I hear? EASE...? Easiness in separation is what you people call it? I understand now...benefits of floorstanders, perhaps? Whatever it is, I like it. Bass doesn't kick me (thankfully) but I see it. Musicians in the recording actually have feet! I'm told these speakers have a smaller brother.

This is when I started to think that I might have to sacrifice some of the best traits of monitor speakers in order to gain the benefits of floorstanders. Of course, it's just not clear-cut like that, but there's just no way getting around the laws of physics. Can I find a floorstander that can image like a monitor? Maybe there are monitors that have the presence like some floorstanders?

Amplifiers: Started with Rega Brio-R on the Dynaudio's. This is just wrong, like adding guitar amplifier distortions. It might be right for some people, then. Some Super-McIntosh Pre-Power Megatrons most of listening. Better.
 
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newworld said:
Can I find a floorstander that can image like a monitor? Maybe there are monitors that have the presence like some floorstanders?
Click to expand...

a most cost-effective way of achieving this I found was engaging Distributed Bass with good mini-monitors.
 
The AX Two was in a system with a $400,000 front end.

A loudspeaker is a messenger for what is in front of it. If you run one of the best CD players in the world through arguably the best SET in the world through a $1200 speaker it sounds better than running trash mp3 through a cheap amp on the $20k speakers I auditioned. One set of speakers. I did not say all $20k speakers. AN makes $20k speakers. Indeed, their flagship speakers are currently $208,000.

I am a fan of the best. The best makes me a fan be it Bentley, Bughatti, Patel Philip, and Audio Note.

Again the AX Two is not better the $20k speakers but my post was about source first being critical. Put the $20k speakers on the $400k system and it would likely be VASTLY superior.
 
newworld said:
Back for more...

I visit the same dealer again, this time just out of curiosity. I've heard so many great things about the previous version of the Dynaudio X14. I also remember a long ago listening to some Focus series speakers driven by Meridian source and amp which left me with a really nice impression. I pass by the Magnepans I listened to weeks prior and think, "hmmm....they are not as large as i remember."

Dynaudio Excite X14 - These look like the older Focus series! I must be getting old to witness this trickle-down makeover happen. Fire them up with my usual speaker-killer music. First thing I notice is the roundness. Not the ate-too-much-at-Thanksgiving kind of roundness, but a nice tapering of the frequency extremes. Whoa, did I just get technical? Exposure amps sound like this. Not entirely clean and natural, but wholesome and punchy. Immediately I realize these speakers are not for me. But for rock fans? This could be the perfect solution for smaller rooms and modest means. I think, if you can still find them, the Excite X12's are the better deal. If the DM series is even cheaper and sound the same, it would be a screaming good deal for rock fans.

Sonus Faber Venere 3.0 - The dealer thought I should give these a listen. Ok, I can't afford them, but why not? Just a switch of cables. Same music. Not the most natural sounding speakers, only slightly better than the Dynaudio's in this regard, but what is this I hear? EASE...? Easiness in separation is what you people call it? I understand now...benefits of floorstanders, perhaps? Whatever it is, I like it. Bass doesn't kick me (thankfully) but I see it. Musicians in the recording actually have feet! I'm told these speakers have a smaller brother.

This is when I started to think that I might have to sacrifice some of the best traits of monitor speakers in order to gain the benefits of floorstanders. Of course, it's just not clear-cut like that, but there's just no way getting around the laws of physics. Can I find a floorstander that can image like a monitor? Maybe there are monitors that have the presence like some floorstanders?

Amplifiers: Started with Rega Brio-R on the Dynaudio's. This is just wrong, like adding guitar amplifier distortions. It might be right for some people, then. Some Super-McIntosh Pre-Power Megatrons most of listening. Better.
Click to expand...

try the Triton series from GoldenEar. The twos if you have a larger room, the 3's if you are in a smaller space. I'll let you report back if you do...you are doing a fine job so far!! Thanks for these updates!
 
TJLitt said:
try the Triton series from GoldenEar. The twos if you have a larger room, the 3's if you are in a smaller space. I'll let you report back if you do...you are doing a fine job so far!! Thanks for these updates!
Click to expand...

Nice suggestion! There is a dealer nearby. Will do. Thanks!

I'm just so happy that there are so many dealers around me. It's quite a change from where I was before, where there was...NOTHING!

While I'm at it, I'm gonna make an effort to audition more B&W's...PM1 and CM10? Hope they have these.
 
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