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Speaker Shootout

I am a fan of the best. The best makes me a fan be it Bentley, Bughatti, Patel Philip, and Audio Note.
part of the problem with this hobby, or, for that matter with most anything, is that 'best' is SO subjective. Your Bughatti might be my Tesla Roadster, but to another guy, 'best' might be a Jeep Cherokee completely decked out as a beach machine. Your Audio Note might be best to you, but not to someone else. Further, 'best' is seldom defined by price. I've spent my whole life being able to afford most anything, within reason, but I've found that the money saved on 'real good' as opposed to chasing the 'best' is but part of the savings in terms of peace and happiness. I know that sounds sappy, but I've seen so many folks, over the years, make themselves miserable fretting over insignificant details, second-guesses and chasing that last .0001%. Spare me, personally. Your Mileage May Vary....as they say!
 
Reality Check

As luck would have it, I became involved in a major recording. I won't reveal much detail, but the team is widely regarded as THE BEST in the business right now. And guess what they brought for monitoring? B&W 805D!!! Five of them!!!

I'm salivating, eager to hear what they sound like, how they compare to the real thing. I can't hide my curiosity. What amp are they using? Something Rotel. What cable? No name on it. The engineers are amused by my interest. Why B&W? I ask. They sound good. They reply. Fair enough. Go!

No boundaries. No dynamic restrictions (at the volume they were being played). No less detail than source (live performance). I smile.

I'm told if these are too expensive I can go for the PM1's which sound fantastic. I ask if they would like to leave these with me until they come back next time. They chuckle.

I'm left wondering how people would describe these speakers. Warm? Bright? Dynamic? I would say...they sound pretty good.
 
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part of the problem with this hobby, or, for that matter with most anything, is that 'best' is SO subjective. Your Bughatti might be my Tesla Roadster, but to another guy, 'best' might be a Jeep Cherokee completely decked out as a beach machine. Your Audio Note might be best to you, but not to someone else. Further, 'best' is seldom defined by price. I've spent my whole life being able to afford most anything, within reason, but I've found that the money saved on 'real good' as opposed to chasing the 'best' is but part of the savings in terms of peace and happiness. I know that sounds sappy, but I've seen so many folks, over the years, make themselves miserable fretting over insignificant details, second-guesses and chasing that last .0001%. Spare me, personally. Your Mileage May Vary....as they say!

Totally agree with you. I love when people get on my case for liking Audio Note when my last 3 purchases have been 2 Line Magnetic products and KEF loudspeakers. I like lots of things and can now afford lots of things - the best overall system I have heard has been from Audio Note but that doesn't always happen - the system at the California Audio Show that I covered didn't make my best four rooms list and would not have made my top 10.

Sanity takes over whether one has the money or not. The Jinro at $26,000 is a better amp than my LM 219IA but the price performance to me is better with the 219IA and not so much in terms of just considering the amplifier but the amount of money that can be put elsewhere in the system.

Indeed the AX Two isn't as good in my home as it was in the store because my system isn't as good. But I've heard the potential of what it can do and that's an important consideration. Learning how important the front end truly is and now would be unlikely to follow advice from folks who say buy a speaker you like and figure the rest out later. That doesn't work for me because if I discover that a low powered SET amplifier sounds better than every Hybrid/SS/ClassD or T amplifier I have ever heard in the last 20 years then buying a speaker that is 2 ohms and 83dB sensitive isn't going to get me anywhere except in the land of upgraditus.

I think it's important to keep apples to apples where possible - when I say Bentley - well yes you may like a Jeep better but these are different animals. When we talk supreme luxury cars - Bentley rises to the top. If you want to talk off road vehicles generally something rises to the top, or sports cars, or electric cars or SUV's.

With audio there is far more subjective responses.

$20k speakers are not automatically good because they are $20k. I would buy the AN E/LX at $6,500 or so over the Wilson Sophia or B&W N801 or Magneopan 20.1 or Quad 2905 at $15,000 all around. That's a subjective take on the sound quality and what I can stomach listening to all day every day.

It's very important not to get caught up in the dollars and one upmanship that us guys typically get into. I spent more on a speaker so it's better mentality.

Now this isn't to say the guy who spent $15k on the Sophia or the Quad etc above are wrong. Quads do things really well that boxes simply don't do but the reverse is also true. Audiophiles and reviewers have to be able to admit or be able to hear what it is that something isn't doing as well not just what it does well. One of the reasons the lowly $1200 priced AX Two moved me was because of the Single Ended triode amp and the superb CD player and on intimate music where the AX Two would not get stressed out. It also helps that it was Eva Cassidy kind of stuff and with terrific tonality and body and enough bass - tremendous sound. Put on big ISO Mike Drum music and the AX Two would suffer. The big $20k Avantegardes would be far more involving and thunderous. But on Eva Cassidy it sounded separated sterile and out and out rough (from a computer audio player). The huge expense of the speakers sounded highly fatiguing and uninvolving - winner was easily the system with the AX Two. That doesn;t mean it's a better speaker than the Avantgarde but the overall result of the overall systems was rather striking.

Lastly, even with speakers like cars I would try to keep apples to apples. For me Soundlabs by far make the best sounding panels (ESL or ribbon). If I were to buy a panel these would be my first choice. But they're extremely pricey and very large. There isn't really much poiint comparing these things to boxed loudspeakers - people tend to gravitate to certain designs (Panel guys/Horn guys). Still within these you can clearly discern what is a better panel from a lesser one or a better horn and a lesser horn - just as you can with off road vehicles and sports cars and Luxury cars.
 
Mid-Point Check in

As luck would have it, I became involved in a major recording. I won't reveal much detail, but the team is widely regarded as THE BEST in the business right now. And guess what they brought for monitoring? B&W 805D!!! Five of them!!!

I'm salivating, eager to hear what they sound like, how they compare to the real thing. I can't hide my curiosity. What amp are they using? Something Rotel. What cable? No name on it. The engineers are amused by my interest. Why B&W? I ask. They sound good. They reply. Fair enough. Go!

No boundaries. No dynamic restrictions (at the volume they were being played). No less detail than source (live performance). I smile.

I'm told if these are too expensive I can go for the PM1's which sound fantastic. I ask if they would like to leave these with me until they come back next time. They chuckle.

I'm left wondering how people would describe these speakers. Warm? Bright? Dynamic? I would say...they sound pretty good.

What genre of music was this?

If 805D is over the limit, you may also consider a secondhand example of 805S which also has garnered rave reviews.

Another option may be Usher BE-718 DMD Diamond, which has been compared to 805D favourably. This Norwegian site compares them directly. A Google translation of the conclusion (edited) says this:

The more expensive B&W 805 Diamond was the more analytical and tighter of the two. With a super detailed and dynamic midrange where the treble becomes a natural extension upwards overtones the 805D rendered the music with oodles details. It is also rålekker (nice?) to look at, and can be placed close the rear wall. That's because the bass does not go very deep, so it is actually an advantage if you have to place the speakers close to the wall. We would have liked a little more bass.

Usher Be-718 DMD has a greater bass response and sounds richer than the B&W. The midrange is more laid back, but the sound is very open and detailed. Usher is also more engaging at a low level listening. The look is not at all as streamlined as the B&W, but the speaker and especially the matching stand is even more solidly built than the B&W.

Usher speakers deliver the better value, but which one you prefer depends entirely on your preferences. They both deserve a powerful amplifier that is anything but cheap.
 
Mid-Point Check in

As luck would have it, I became involved in a major recording. I won't reveal much detail, but the team is widely regarded as THE BEST in the business right now. And guess what they brought for monitoring? B&W 805D!!! Five of them!!!

I'm salivating, eager to hear what they sound like, how they compare to the real thing. I can't hide my curiosity. What amp are they using? Something Rotel. What cable? No name on it. The engineers are amused by my interest. Why B&W? I ask. They sound good. They reply. Fair enough. Go!

No boundaries. No dynamic restrictions (at the volume they were being played). No less detail than source (live performance). I smile.

I'm told if these are too expensive I can go for the PM1's which sound fantastic. I ask if they would like to leave these with me until they come back next time. They chuckle.

I'm left wondering how people would describe these speakers. Warm? Bright? Dynamic? I would say...they sound pretty good.

It just goes to show you that no matter what one person likes someone else doesn't - even the recording guys.

At the California Audio show I had a discussion with long time Abbey Roads recording engineer Bob Houdas who worked at Abbey Road Records where B&W speakers are used. He was not the least bit impressed by them. http://www.bobhodas.com/

Hi room at CAS was about a Tape project recording to reel to reel tapes and was using Focal Utopia line of speakers - positioned in a way that made them sound better than previous auditions.

It's important to note that just because a recording studio uses a given loudspeaker that that doesn't mean it's better - they have to use something after all - and some speaker makers give recording studios the speakers for free or at very deep discounts in order to be able to advertise the fact that Recording Studio XYZ uses their product.

The next speaker I will probably buy is the Audio Note E - and even this speaker which is not perfect by any means is used in recording studios - panels are sometimes used, horns, transmission lines from PMC for example, Harbeth etc.

And someone will call me on AN E being in a recording studio so before they pounce here they are http://www.chord.co.uk/blog/gearbox-records-not-your-average-record-label/
 
It's important to note that just because a recording studio uses a given loudspeaker that that doesn't mean it's better - they have to use something after all - and some speaker makers give recording studios the speakers for free or at very deep discounts in order to be able to advertise the fact that Recording Studio XYZ uses their product.

I agree, but it also means that the recordings from that studio would probably be optimised for the speakers used therein.
 
Yeah using my phone - it keeps changing the spellings - smartphone technology that is outsmarting me
 
Agreed. I just wish manufacturers have more options to suit the customer's needs, for people like me who are more budget-conscious and lack the pride of ownership. :D

I think part of this is because Harbeth like Audio Note use the cabinet as part of their voicing. Lossy cabinets are not the norm in the speaker design industry. Most speaker makers try to deaden the box as much as possible but if it's not deadened enough the resonance lingers and creates IMO a smeared response. No doubt why so many people gravitate to panel loudspeakers when they first hear them because they are so open and alive sounding not like dreary dead resonating boxes.

High efficiency speakers and horns tend to have a jump out of the box sound which try to escape the box deadness and tend to be more immediate. The box aids them in being more powerful sounding and gives more back to front air and visceral impact - while panels sound 2D and a little over there. But usually ultra open and ultra clean sounding which is hugely appealing to me compared to say a Sonus Faber or Totem or pretty much any box speaker using vibration deadening (but IMO music deadening) MDF. To me it's kind of like a Nakamichi Dragon with no noise reduction versus a deck using Dolby B. Dolby takes out the hiss but also takes out some of the music. Deadening unwanted resonance is fine but it takes out some of the actual music then it's not a good trade.

I wish more companies did what Audio Note does by basically letting you order it the way you want it. You don't want to pay for the premium finish by the basic version. You're not stuck with 3-5 colour options. With the AN E or J I can choos over 20 wood finishes, matter or laquer of each or you can order them in piano lacquer finishes in a bunch of different colours. I dunno but dropping $10k on a loudspeaker you should be able to choose this kind of stuff from any brands. Heck even with Rega Turntables you could buy one with the union jack flag. Granted you may pay extra - a lot extra - but options are a good thing. I'm kind of tired of the usual Black, Cherry, Beige/tan options.

I mean they do need to go in your living room after all so it's nice to have gear that can match the decor.
 
I agree, but it also means that the recordings from that studio would probably be optimised for the speakers used therein.

Yeah you may be right and unfortunately I have yet to hear a good recording come out of Abbey Road records. The risk of such advertising for B&W "we're used by Abbey Road" is that if the recording sounds dreadful maybe the speakers will get blamed.

I started with B&W - interestingly in Korea I demoed an old Matrix 801 versus a Nautilus 801 - the older Matrix sounded better. I think the marketing has taken over now that the founders of B&W are no longer running it.

I think as a studio speaker the isolated chamber approach B&W uses can work a bit more because you want to hear recordings pulled apart and separated into general isolated frequency bands - but for the home that is the last thing you would probably want. The midwoofer/Kevlar hand off to the metal/diamond tweeter to me is bothersome. Always liked the look of them - They look like giant Bishops from chess board to me.
 
panels can do this on your first audition - your reaction was exactly the same as my reaction when i first auditioned a panel in the 1990s. I swore i would buy them and swore that everything else sucked in comparison.

Time and more auditions later -- and i heard what they don't do. But many people love em.

+1.
 
Back for more...Amplifiers: Started with Rega Brio-R on the Dynaudio's. This is just wrong, like adding guitar amplifier distortions. It might be right for some people, then. Some Super-McIntosh Pre-Power Megatrons most of listening. Better.

Hmm...I had and still have the Brio-R and X12's (wife has them now) and they sound wonderful. Best with jazz and Americana and weakest with rock. Do you listen to much live music?
 
Hmm...I had and still have the Brio-R and X12's (wife has them now) and they sound wonderful. Best with jazz and Americana and weakest with rock. Do you listen to much live music?

Yes, and I DO live music. :D
 
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Yes, and I DO live music. :D

What all was involved in the set up? Happen to know the cabling or source? Speaker setup (toe in, toe out etc)?

One thing I've noticed is that when I'm auditioning at a dealer I often have to tweak the dealer set up for best results.
 
What all was involved in the set up? Happen to know the cabling or source? Speaker setup (toe in, toe out etc)?

One thing I've noticed is that when I'm auditioning at a dealer I often have to tweak the dealer set up for best results.

Speakers were toed in. Not sure about cabling. Source was iPad controlled, so it must've been connected to a computer. It was a Rega DAC when when the Brio-R was used. I don't fuss about those things unless I notice something unusual. Whatever they use is miles better and more expensive than what I will be using.
 
It all matters and that is why I asked. If you ever get a chance, try the Dynaudios with a better amp and especially a better source. We use them with a Rega amp in a very small room but they also worked quite nicely in the living room with the amp. I did feel that the amp ran out of gas with rock music in that room but only when pressed hard. Everyone who heard them in the living room was impressed. Happy speaker shopping.
 
Yeah you may be right and unfortunately I have yet to hear a good recording come out of Abbey Road records. The risk of such advertising for B&W "we're used by Abbey Road" is that if the recording sounds dreadful maybe the speakers will get blamed.

That's a pretty bold statement. I am setting here listening to a vinyl nothing special copy(no 180 gram, no MFSL, etc) of the Beatles "Abby Road" on my B&W speakers and it sounds pretty good this morning. :yes:
 
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