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Speaker stacking: what's the deal?

Aaron Hayman said:
Speaker stacking: what's the deal?
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The "deal" is that it can be fun to "stack" full range loudspeakers......but at the end of the day it gets old and does not work well. This only works well for loudspeakers that play 100hz and below (subwoofers). Run as many per side as possible or as many clustered at center as possible. These frequencies couple together nicely. Where there are mids and highs, keep it at 1 per side.

Try it, get it off of your bucket list, move on.
 
Actually, it seems that you folks didn't read my original post as I have no desire to run both sets of speakers together. With the two pairs run together the collective ohm rating will be too much of load for my amp. I realize that I could run them through a speaker switcher box which has a protection circuit, as I do for the two pairs that I currently use (one is in another room) when I want to fill the house with sound. That's for spreading out the sound through the whole house though, which is a different sort of thing and for that I can accept the penalty of the hit to the bass when I do that. If I have to use a protection circuit though to power two sets of speakers in the same room then it seems that I'll be defeating the purpose of the whole thing. I would then have to suffer with a thinner sound and that goes against the idea of having two sets for a bigger sound. I really only want to hook up the two pairs (stacked of course) so that I have the luxury of switching between the two sounds.

If I were to go this route though, I'll need another speaker switcher box as the Niles model that I have only does two sets of speakers and I'll need something that has at least three, two stacked in the living room and one other set that are the remote speakers that I have in my bedroom office. I'd need one with a protection switch like the Niles that I have and terminals for banana plugs would be nice, as would be separate volume controls so that I can easily a/b the stacked speakers (and adjust for volume differences) to better hear the differences between the two. The banana plug type connections as well as the volume controls are optional though, but it's gotta have that speaker protection button. Any recommendations for something that would be good that I might be able to find used on Ebay or even new for cheap? I've kind of spent my hi-fi budget for this season already on that pair of ADS speakers so I don't want to spend a lot on another speaker switcher box, but I should be able to find one for cheap, no? I can't remember what I spent on the Niles, but it wasn't very much (and it has a speaker protection switch, separate volume controls though only has cheap spring loaded wire terminals).
 
With a title like "speaker stacking, whats the deal?" Its understood that you are wanting to power 2 pairs of speakers simultaneously.

If you seek to select between 1 pair and the other but never both at the same time then get a switch or make a switch. I would sooner find the right speaker for the job then use proper stands than do this.
 
z-adamson said:
With a title like "speaker stacking, whats the deal?" Its understood that you are wanting to power 2 pairs of speakers simultaneously.

If you seek to select between 1 pair and the other but never both at the same time then get a switch or make a switch. I would sooner find the right speaker for the job then use proper stands than do this.
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My issue is this: I have one more set of speakers than I have use for. I like all of the speaker and was wondering about any kind of sonic penalty to hooking two sets up in a stacked position where the top set is going to be higher than ideal for positioning. I thought that it might be cool to be able to switch between the two sets (for different moods and different types of music), but not if it's likely that having the top set of speakers, which will be a 1.5-2' higher than listening level. My question was more about how much of a hit am I likely to take sonically by having one set of speakers that high..? The speakers in question are ones that seem to have pretty good dispersion characteristics...
 
The only time I stacked speakers was when I was young and poor in the 70's. I had a decent turntable (Pioneer PL-12D) and lower end Kenwood receiver but I couldn't afford speakers and had a set of the old cylindrical Panasonics along with some small Sonys in nicely veneered boxes. The Sonys had a little low end and all the Panasonics had was higher end. I ended up running the Sonys as A speakers and the Panasonics as B speakers with them stacked on top of the Sonys. It sucked until I made a little money and could afford to finally upgrade (Celestion DL-8 II's which I still use today).
 
Aaron Hayman said:
My issue is this: I have one more set of speakers than I have use for. I like all of the speaker and was wondering about any kind of sonic penalty to hooking two sets up in a stacked position where the top set is going to be higher than ideal for positioning. I thought that it might be cool to be able to switch between the two sets (for different moods and different types of music), but not if it's likely that having the top set of speakers, which will be a 1.5-2' higher than listening level. My question was more about how much of a hit am I likely to take sonically by having one set of speakers that high..? The speakers in question are ones that seem to have pretty good dispersion characteristics...
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In that case it's not so much a question of "stacking" but of basic placement in which case the objects being mounted upon may as well be a piece of furniture of the same height. The fact that the objects that the speakers are being placed upon also happen to be another pair of speakers doesn't really factor into it.

The main issue is whether placement of the secondary (upper) speakers will allow for the best HF radiation to the listening position. Some speakers are designed for floor placement for optimal bass response too. All that really matters is how they sound to you when so located- regardless of what they're resting on.
 
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Aaron Hayman said:
My issue is this: I have one more set of speakers than I have use for. I like all of the speaker and was wondering about any kind of sonic penalty to hooking two sets up in a stacked position where the top set is going to be higher than ideal for positioning. I thought that it might be cool to be able to switch between the two sets (for different moods and different types of music), but not if it's likely that having the top set of speakers, which will be a 1.5-2' higher than listening level. My question was more about how much of a hit am I likely to take sonically by having one set of speakers that high..? The speakers in question are ones that seem to have pretty good dispersion characteristics...
Click to expand...

So it would appear the problem is no two speakers can occupy the same space. And the adjacent speaker will interfere with the one playing the music. Yes, it will.
Some broad observations can be made. But you're talking about getting real picky.
What I found out was my audio memory wasn't good enough when a pair was removed from the room to verify what I thought I heard when they were stacked for the comparison. In other words, I learned just as much swapping them in and out of the room as I did stacking for a/b test.
And everything was complicated because the speaker's sound changed with less than a few inches of relocation in any direction.
But, on a different note since it's been talked about. I have a very dead room. And running several pair of clean sounding speakers simultaneously with loud rock can have good results. The room must be very dead, and the speakers must have very good and tight base response. I got better results with this than any single pair for that music.
 
62caddy said:
In that case it's not so much a question of "stacking" but of basic placement in which case the objects being stacked upon may as well be a piece of furniture of the same height. The fact that the objects that the speakers are being placed upon also happen to be another pair of speakers doesn't really factor into it.

The main issue is whether placement of the secondary (upper) speakers will allow for the best HF radiation to the listening position. Some speakers are designed for floor placement for optimal bass response too. All that really matters is how they sound to you when so located- regardless of what they're resting on.
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EXATLY! I guess that I was hoping for a "with speakers like that it ought to sound just fine," or even "I wouldn't bother because that sort of thing is likely to sound awful." As I wrote in my original post, with the way that I have my room arranged the only spot that I can see to put another set of speakers, is on top of the ones that I already have (as there isn't much of another choice, working around windows, door frames, built in book cases which can't be moved, the necessity of the room doing double duty for TV watch and the room that needs to be made for that, record cases, etc). Both speakers are bookshelf types and the smaller pair which will go on top and be higher than ideal listening hight at least has what seems to be wider dispersion tweeters...
 
Problems: The speakers may not image well, high frequency energy may not be well utilized, the unused speakers will become passive radiators (essentially) absorbing energy from speakers that are playing, making them less efficient.

I would store them elsewhere and get proper stands.
 
I knew somebody was going to bring up the subject of the unused speakers acting in some passive manner so as to be detrimental to sound quality.

My opinion is that any such effect is so negligible to be of any consequence, if it exists at all. As someone also with two pair of speakers in the same room (played independent of another), I can positively say that such concerns are greatly exaggerated.

If the effect was so dreadful, I'd hate to imagine the implication for the countless audio salons with discerning customers spending megabucks on high end speakers being demonstrated with all those unused speakers in the room...:rolleyes:
 
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The deal with Advents was hard to quantify. I did it wrong and had both tweeters at the top and liked it that way...maybe Advents were unique in some strange way as I remember a large record store in Norwood Ohio that had probably 8 spread around their periphery at almost ceiling level place horizontally...the clarity was really good...something I could never get at home with a single pair.
 
62caddy said:
I knew somebody was going to bring up the subject of the unused speakers acting in some passive manner so as to be detrimental to sound quality.

My opinion is that any such effect is so negligible to be of any consequence, if it exists at all. As someone also with two pair of speakers in the same room (played independent of another), I can positively say that such concerns are greatly exaggerated.

If the effect was so dreadful, I'd hate to imagine the implication for the countless audio salons with discerning customers spending megabucks on high end speakers being demonstrated with all those unused speakers in the room...:rolleyes:
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There are at least a few little things that subtract from a system's performance potential that you see as inconsequential. Some think the little things matter, some don't.
 
I have 3 systems in my house and they are all stacked. DCM TF-400s over JBL 32s, DCM 600s over Klipsch Quartets and DCM CX-17s over DCM TimeWindows.
 
quiet said:
So it would appear the problem is no two speakers can occupy the same space. And the adjacent speaker will interfere with the one playing the music. Yes, it will.
Some broad observations can be made. But you're talking about getting real picky.
What I found out was my audio memory wasn't good enough when a pair was removed from the room to verify what I thought I heard when they were stacked for the comparison. In other words, I learned just as much swapping them in and out of the room as I did stacking for a/b test.
And everything was complicated because the speaker's sound changed with less than a few inches of relocation in any direction.
But, on a different note since it's been talked about. I have a very dead room. And running several pair of clean sounding speakers simultaneously with loud rock can have good results. The room must be very dead, and the speakers must have very good and tight base response. I got better results with this than any single pair for that music.
Click to expand...

z-adamson said:
Problems: The speakers may not image well, high frequency energy may not be well utilized, the unused speakers will become passive radiators (essentially) absorbing energy from speakers that are playing, making them less efficient.

I would store them elsewhere and get proper stands.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the responses... just the kind of thing that I was looking for. I was almost hoping that folks would talk me out of this thing! As I mentioned before, I don't really have room to put 2 sets of speakers in the space that I have without
stacking. I did kind of think of the resonance issue, particularly since the ADS speakers that I have, which will be the base for the other speakers, seem a bit lightweight and are likely on the somewhat resonant side (though somehow they sound good in spite of that). I'm dealing with a somewhat (but not totally) live sounding room as well, which may be less than ideal for this experiment. Despite the fact that I'm going to have to take some stuff apart, which is a bit of a PIA the way that I have everything put together and that the setup can only be temporary at this point because I don't have enough speaker connections (I'll have to buy a bigger speaker switcher to make this thing permanent, if I decide to do that way), I think that I'll have to try this. At the very least it'll give me an excuse to finally get around to putting together some bi-wire wires (I know, redundant!) to use with the Jamo speakers. I bought the wire and the plugs a while ago, but never got around to dealing with it...
 
Mystic said:
Back yard @ summer!

Say, you've been around these boards for a spell: Do you recall the AK member who used to set up a ton of stage monitors -- JBL, Altec or other I no longer recall the make, might even have been a mix -- in his yard for summer super-blowouts? I know Jaymanna did something similar @ his annual Twangfests, but this old cat went bigger -- WAY bigger -- in his arrangement. Hi effin' back yard looked like the stage @ an outdoor rock festival circa 1977.

Anyway, I'm curious to know because I recall his having posted pix which may or may not still be "viewable", and that's if the thread @ which he posted the photos survived the transfer of AK data from the old forum platform to this XenForo platform.
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I remember vaguely but can't recall his name. Didn't he live in N.Carolina?
 
Aaron Hayman said:
Thanks for the responses... just the kind of thing that I was looking for. I was almost hoping that folks would talk me out of this thing! As I mentioned before, I don't really have room to put 2 sets of speakers in the space that I have without
stacking. I did kind of think of the resonance issue, particularly since the ADS speakers that I have, which will be the base for the other speakers, seem a bit lightweight and are likely on the somewhat resonant side (though somehow they sound good in spite of that). I'm dealing with a somewhat (but not totally) live sounding room as well, which may be less than ideal for this experiment. Despite the fact that I'm going to have to take some stuff apart, which is a bit of a PIA the way that I have everything put together and that the setup can only be temporary at this point because I don't have enough speaker connections (I'll have to buy a bigger speaker switcher to make this thing permanent, if I decide to do that way), I think that I'll have to try this. At the very least it'll give me an excuse to finally get around to putting together some bi-wire wires (I know, redundant!) to use with the Jamo speakers. I bought the wire and the plugs a while ago, but never got around to dealing with it...
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Resonanse of the speaker stand (whatever it may be) is ONE issue. You want them be solid and dead. If the stands dance a long with the music then they are subtracting from it.

A separate issue is the drivers within the unused speaker / speaker stand dancing along with the music.....like a passive radiator. This is what I was talking about. Play the top speakers.......crank the volume......lightly put your hand on the woofer of the bottom speaker (stand). If the woofer is moving as though it were playing music, then it is subtracting from the speakers that are playing. If the cabinets are resonating too, then you have 2 things subtracting from the system's performance.
 
Put the top speakers upside down so at least the tweeters are lower and closer to ear level. May help with imaging. Try different configurations and see what works best. It may work, it may not, but no harm in experimenting.
 
bberkom said:
Put the top speakers upside down so at least the tweeters are lower and closer to ear level. May help with imaging. Try different configurations and see what works best. It may work, it may not, but no harm in experimenting.
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I can't really do that because the Jamo speakers I'll have on top are kind of pear shaped and bigger on the bottom with a skinnier top. I'd think that they'd be a bit wobbly upside down. I think though that I might be able to put the speakers on the bottom (the base) horizontal rather than vertical (with the tweeters pointed out of course) and this will mean that the Jamo speakers on top will be a little closer to ear level...
 
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