Speakerlab S7s Rebuild and Modding (Ribbon Tweeter Model)
- Thread starter Bratwurst7s
- Start date
They are made by:
S & O Handelsgesellschaft mbH
Berliner Str. 15A
D-33775 Versmold, Deutschland
Telefon: 05423/93268-0
Fax: 05423/93268-20
Product name:
Möbelfuß Schrankfuß Stellfuß Höhe 60 mm Ø 40mm höhenverstellbar 4250496624631 LG-Nr.SO3-26 LG-Nr.SO3-26
(Furniture Cabinet adjustable foot, height 60mm dia 40mm)
Amazon (Germany) Article number: 61942641766427
James
Thank you. I'm enjoying them nearly every day, and looking forward to getting even more joy out of them as this project goes on.
James
c-atle-79bay
Super Member
My wife bought the Infinity IRS Betas from Paul.... So she is a definite keeper
I'm not sure if I want to offer a trade of wifes or speakers. Those S50's look great. the Infinities are not shabby either.
So, 2 themes are current. 1) Zobels for the midrange, 2) cabinet sealing.
1) My impression of my new mids is that A) they are wonderful, B) it's possible that they are getting just a tad to much into the highrange, C) and perhaps they are just a tad to loud. B and C are interactive. The thing is that when I sit and listen with closed eyes the midrange just looks a bit larger than the lows and highs, and that middle picture starts to get just a bit sharp up top. Does that make any sense?
As much as I have been reading up on zobel networks I thought that it might be profitable to add them to the mids and listen to what that does in regard to B and C. So I started a thread asking questions regarding that...
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=7780623&posted=1#post7780623
To me the idea looks like it might be usefull, but reddog48 warned me that doing so might actually exaggerate my potential SPL/efficiency/loudness problem, but keeping this in mind I'm still going to do it. I ordered the parts, along with an assortment of MOX resistors to use as pads if I need to and they should be here tomorrow or Thursday. News to follow.
2) As much as I felt that the red/brown rubber seals/gaskets that I cut were going to be such a great success, and that they looked attractive to my eye, in terms of sealing they haven't been a complete success. Where the speaker frames and baffle make complete contact they make a very nice seal. But unfortunately they just don't have enough squish factor and where the baffle is slightly concave (such as under the 12"ers) the seals just won't compress enough to fill the entire gap. I can take a flat tip screwdriver and slide the seals a little bit back and forth at the bottom of the 12" woofers. So the cabinets are just not getting sealed correctly, and the woofers can't be performing properly. Or am I making another thinking failure?
I can't really decide if the mids are too loud or if the woofs are not woofing right until I correctly seal the cabs, so I found some 3mm closed cell foam mats online and ordered a couple of 500x1000mm mats on the weekend also.
With any luck these items will be here by Friday and I can play with them on the weekend.
James
1) My impression of my new mids is that A) they are wonderful, B) it's possible that they are getting just a tad to much into the highrange, C) and perhaps they are just a tad to loud. B and C are interactive. The thing is that when I sit and listen with closed eyes the midrange just looks a bit larger than the lows and highs, and that middle picture starts to get just a bit sharp up top. Does that make any sense?
As much as I have been reading up on zobel networks I thought that it might be profitable to add them to the mids and listen to what that does in regard to B and C. So I started a thread asking questions regarding that...
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=7780623&posted=1#post7780623
To me the idea looks like it might be usefull, but reddog48 warned me that doing so might actually exaggerate my potential SPL/efficiency/loudness problem, but keeping this in mind I'm still going to do it. I ordered the parts, along with an assortment of MOX resistors to use as pads if I need to and they should be here tomorrow or Thursday. News to follow.
2) As much as I felt that the red/brown rubber seals/gaskets that I cut were going to be such a great success, and that they looked attractive to my eye, in terms of sealing they haven't been a complete success. Where the speaker frames and baffle make complete contact they make a very nice seal. But unfortunately they just don't have enough squish factor and where the baffle is slightly concave (such as under the 12"ers) the seals just won't compress enough to fill the entire gap. I can take a flat tip screwdriver and slide the seals a little bit back and forth at the bottom of the 12" woofers. So the cabinets are just not getting sealed correctly, and the woofers can't be performing properly. Or am I making another thinking failure?
I can't really decide if the mids are too loud or if the woofs are not woofing right until I correctly seal the cabs, so I found some 3mm closed cell foam mats online and ordered a couple of 500x1000mm mats on the weekend also.
With any luck these items will be here by Friday and I can play with them on the weekend.
James
Hi Mark & Guy, There you are. With the cabs not properly sealed they can't be giving the bass that they should. I realize that a lot of AKers have posted that they have used sealing band tape with success but I prefer the idea of cutting proper ring seals, hence the large mats. I'm planning on resealing all 4 chassis and not just the woofers.
EDIT: Short and simple answer, no L-pads at this point.
ConradH recommended adding L-pads at least for testing, after which measuring them and switching to the right resistors for a permanant solution. This sounds like a great approach, but to do so I'd have to cut some holes somewhere, and then seal them up afterward. The only practical place to do that would be through the plastic binding post cups that I installed last summer. When I have the woofers out for the resealing I'll take a carefull look and evaluate the amount of space there.
On another front I've pretty much settled on a pair of Scan-Speak W25/8565-00 as my 10" replacements. I'm liking them very much and am saving my pennies for a (hopefully) summer purchase. Price is €375 for a pair.
Cheers,
James
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markdi
Natural born thread killer
I wonder why speakerlab did not use L - pads on the midrange and tweeters
After i refoamed my woofers I never replaced or re used the foam gaskets that sealed my woofers to the cabinet.
My speakers are ported but i think i can hear air leaks at high volume.
I found a pair of 30 dollar klipsch kg 5.2's that i can listen to while i recap my sevens
The kg 5.2's do not sound as good as the speakerlabs
Your red gaskets look good - maybe you can find some read foam.
Band sealing tape ?
I hope my post makes sense
I have the mother of all chest colds
After i refoamed my woofers I never replaced or re used the foam gaskets that sealed my woofers to the cabinet.
My speakers are ported but i think i can hear air leaks at high volume.
I found a pair of 30 dollar klipsch kg 5.2's that i can listen to while i recap my sevens
The kg 5.2's do not sound as good as the speakerlabs
Your red gaskets look good - maybe you can find some read foam.
Band sealing tape ?
I hope my post makes sense
I have the mother of all chest colds
I don't know for sure, but I think that SL did use pots on some of their earlier speakers. If I had any in mine I would only use them to do as ConradH suggested, find the adjustment that I liked best, measure the resistance, replace them with the appropriate resistors, and plug the holes. I look at moving parts on a speaker as a future point of failure. (ha ha, except for the drivers of course, and they also have problems often enough)
I would think that sealing your woofers will be quite useful. I don't guess that your ports are doing their job if air is leaking in front. I thought that I had done a good job of getting my boxes sealed but I was wrong. Getting that taken care of is now a high priority. I kinda liked the red(brown gaskets also, and actually looked for some red foam mats, but in the end found a good price on some simple black sheet material and settled on that. I hope that they arrive soon. My caps and resistors arrived today so I just need the gasket material to move forward.
I took the same route as you and bought an old pair of JBL TLX-70's from a guy at work to use while I had my sevens apart. Afterward I gave them to one of my daughters along with a Technics A600 MK2 amp and a ST-GT650 tuner for when she moves out. Got the lot for €100.
Get well soon.
James
I would think that sealing your woofers will be quite useful. I don't guess that your ports are doing their job if air is leaking in front. I thought that I had done a good job of getting my boxes sealed but I was wrong. Getting that taken care of is now a high priority. I kinda liked the red(brown gaskets also, and actually looked for some red foam mats, but in the end found a good price on some simple black sheet material and settled on that. I hope that they arrive soon. My caps and resistors arrived today so I just need the gasket material to move forward.
I took the same route as you and bought an old pair of JBL TLX-70's from a guy at work to use while I had my sevens apart. Afterward I gave them to one of my daughters along with a Technics A600 MK2 amp and a ST-GT650 tuner for when she moves out. Got the lot for €100.
Get well soon.
James
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markdi
Natural born thread killer
one of my sevens now has a rattle
heavy bass makes a rattling sound come from the port
no rattles from the drivers
the bass was rattling my pea brain and my fluid filled lungs
there is a round opening then there is a 90 degree bend and the
port tube start in about the middle and runs up parallel to the back of the cabinet
still quite sick - hope this makes sense
i put my hand in the tube and pushed on it - away from the back
of the cabinet and no rattle
removed my hand = rattle
running maybe 40 50 watts rms
so i hope it is a easy fix
they will come apart really soon for rattle fix and crossover capacitor replacement
is there anything else i shoud do to them ?
not looking forward to the sound of the klipsch kg 5.2s
heavy bass makes a rattling sound come from the port
no rattles from the drivers
the bass was rattling my pea brain and my fluid filled lungs
there is a round opening then there is a 90 degree bend and the
port tube start in about the middle and runs up parallel to the back of the cabinet
still quite sick - hope this makes sense
i put my hand in the tube and pushed on it - away from the back
of the cabinet and no rattle
removed my hand = rattle
running maybe 40 50 watts rms
so i hope it is a easy fix
they will come apart really soon for rattle fix and crossover capacitor replacement
is there anything else i shoud do to them ?
not looking forward to the sound of the klipsch kg 5.2s
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Well, if the tubes are not broken but just warped with age my first thought was to use some foam and double-stick tape between them and the back wall when you have your drivers out. But then came the thought that foam might not hold up with age and disintegrate.
Take a look back at the pics that I posted of the stands that I made. See those white pads that I cut for under the feet? They are some kind of self adhesive synthetic felt that I cut from mats. You should be able to find something similar at Home Depot etc. It's made for padding under furniture. It comes in different pre-cut shapes and in mats, in various thicknesses. I'll bet it would work pretty well to cut a strip of that and stick it behind the port tubes.
James
Take a look back at the pics that I posted of the stands that I made. See those white pads that I cut for under the feet? They are some kind of self adhesive synthetic felt that I cut from mats. You should be able to find something similar at Home Depot etc. It's made for padding under furniture. It comes in different pre-cut shapes and in mats, in various thicknesses. I'll bet it would work pretty well to cut a strip of that and stick it behind the port tubes.
James
kool thank you
thank you verry much James
now if i can get the french doors going to my garage to quit rattling/buzzing at high volumes
You're welcome, I hope that it helps. As far as your doors, dunno. Mabye some German doors would be heavier and not so excitable, less apt to buzz?
My foam sheets just got here, so tomorrow I'll be starting to cut new seals. I hope. I'm also getting ready to replace our kitchen, so there may be a conflict of interests here. But tonight is reserved for going and shooting some pool with friends...
James
Seals and Zobels
OK! Yesterday I cut new seals for all the drivers and installed them. I only had time afterward to listen to a few songs before my hausfrau and middle daughter took over the living room for fitness training, but realized that yes, the cabs had definitely not been sealed correctly. Bass and it's blending with the midrange was seriously improved.
Saturday is movie night for my wife and I, so when the room was back to normal we got to it. With 5.1 turned on, again, big improvements, all of a sudden I hardly noticed that the subwoofer was even turned on (I only use it for 5.1, for 2-channel it is turned off).
Today I installed the Zobels on the mids. Rather than pull the crossovers I got a little lazy, er I mean because this is in the way of an experiment I saved some time, and installed the zobel directly on the leads to the mid by way of snipping off the connectors and crimping new ones on with the zobel bridged between them. I figured that that way if I didn't like the results it would be relatively easy to reverse things. Along the way I found that because of the squircle shape of the new mid that the 3mm foam was perhaps a bit thin for the application and was too distorted to successfully reuse. I still had some 7mm foam so I cut some new gaskets from that, it worked well and the mids are definitely well sealed now.
Lately I've been on a Rory Gallagher kick and have been using his first album/cd as a test piece. I really didn't expect there to be more than perhaps a subtle difference in performance. I was dead wrong. MAGIC! This brought me everything that I had hoped for and more. Previously I have tried to describe the problem as the mids looking larger when I closed my eyes. No more.
Eyes closed the speakers mostly just disappeared. Sealing the cabs correctly and adding the zobels resulted in a major improvement in sound stage. Whereas before the bass was sleeping and the tweeters and mids seemed to be competing with each other there is now just the music, a homogenous whole. Fantastic clarity, fuller voices, much richer bass. I followed Rory with Chicago's version of "I'm A Man". Fantastic. And I realized that I really need to add some Duane Eddy to my collection, for the twang. Lastly I followed up with Keb' Mo's first cd. I really just got lost in it, it really jarred me when the cd ended, like falling out of bed and landing on a cold winter floor. Bam. Reality's back.
The choice to buy these mids and tweeters was absolutely correct. I never remember these speakers having such mid-upper clarity when new.
I'm once again very very happy with the direction this thing's taking. Ready for the next step, new 10" woofers. I just dropped 5 grand on a new kitchen so it will most likely be July or August before I can make that happen.
Cheers,
James
OK! Yesterday I cut new seals for all the drivers and installed them. I only had time afterward to listen to a few songs before my hausfrau and middle daughter took over the living room for fitness training, but realized that yes, the cabs had definitely not been sealed correctly. Bass and it's blending with the midrange was seriously improved.
Saturday is movie night for my wife and I, so when the room was back to normal we got to it. With 5.1 turned on, again, big improvements, all of a sudden I hardly noticed that the subwoofer was even turned on (I only use it for 5.1, for 2-channel it is turned off).
Today I installed the Zobels on the mids. Rather than pull the crossovers I got a little lazy, er I mean because this is in the way of an experiment I saved some time, and installed the zobel directly on the leads to the mid by way of snipping off the connectors and crimping new ones on with the zobel bridged between them. I figured that that way if I didn't like the results it would be relatively easy to reverse things. Along the way I found that because of the squircle shape of the new mid that the 3mm foam was perhaps a bit thin for the application and was too distorted to successfully reuse. I still had some 7mm foam so I cut some new gaskets from that, it worked well and the mids are definitely well sealed now.
Lately I've been on a Rory Gallagher kick and have been using his first album/cd as a test piece. I really didn't expect there to be more than perhaps a subtle difference in performance. I was dead wrong. MAGIC! This brought me everything that I had hoped for and more. Previously I have tried to describe the problem as the mids looking larger when I closed my eyes. No more.
Eyes closed the speakers mostly just disappeared. Sealing the cabs correctly and adding the zobels resulted in a major improvement in sound stage. Whereas before the bass was sleeping and the tweeters and mids seemed to be competing with each other there is now just the music, a homogenous whole. Fantastic clarity, fuller voices, much richer bass. I followed Rory with Chicago's version of "I'm A Man". Fantastic. And I realized that I really need to add some Duane Eddy to my collection, for the twang. Lastly I followed up with Keb' Mo's first cd. I really just got lost in it, it really jarred me when the cd ended, like falling out of bed and landing on a cold winter floor. Bam. Reality's back.
The choice to buy these mids and tweeters was absolutely correct. I never remember these speakers having such mid-upper clarity when new.
I'm once again very very happy with the direction this thing's taking. Ready for the next step, new 10" woofers. I just dropped 5 grand on a new kitchen so it will most likely be July or August before I can make that happen.
Cheers,
James
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Short update. Financially I'm on track for an end of June to early July woofer purchase. Getting excited about that.
In the meantime I've torn out our kitchen for a remake and most of it has landed in our living room/dining area. What makes this useful to discuss is the effect that all of that stuff has had on the room acoustics. :thumbsdn: Highs are down significantly, lows are up and more muddy. A dramatic example of what the room is doing to the music.
Clearly when I get this tornado like mess cleaned up I need to buy a mic and start using REW, along with reading through the listening space threads. I'm going farther and farther down the wormhole...
Cheers,
James
In the meantime I've torn out our kitchen for a remake and most of it has landed in our living room/dining area. What makes this useful to discuss is the effect that all of that stuff has had on the room acoustics. :thumbsdn: Highs are down significantly, lows are up and more muddy. A dramatic example of what the room is doing to the music.
Clearly when I get this tornado like mess cleaned up I need to buy a mic and start using REW, along with reading through the listening space threads. I'm going farther and farther down the wormhole...
Cheers,
James
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