Speakerlab S7s Rebuild and Modding (Ribbon Tweeter Model)
- Thread starter Bratwurst7s
- Start date
The UMIK-1 arrived today! That's quite a surprise because it's only been 2 weeks and the outfit where I ordered it from stated 3-4 weeks delivery time. Nicely timed as I'm now on vacation the next 3 weeks and will have plenty of time to start learning how to use it.
The mic came well packed and is itself in a nice little carrying case, with a USB cable and a small stand.
Cheers,
James
The mic came well packed and is itself in a nice little carrying case, with a USB cable and a small stand.
Cheers,
James
Last edited:
Today I was finally able to order WT2 from Smith & Larson. They stated "express shipping", and I paid $35 for that, but coming over from the US along with the time of year I don't really expect to see it before the end of the month. If it comes sooner that's a bonus. Many thanks to Nerdorama and others for the reference to S&L.
I also ordered and received a good microphone stand for the UMIK-1 this week. The tiny little thing that came with it is basicly worthless so I've been waiting to get something better to use the mic. I was pretty surprised at the quality of what I got for only €12. I'll be able to position the mic where I want without having to resort to putting it on boxes etc.
So I'm finally getting close to being able to implement the next part of this project, and I also have saved enough to fund it through to finishing the crossover replacement.
Special note to C-atle-79bay: During my fall vacation I sanded down both my kitchen table and living room coffee table and used the OSMO hardwaxoil on them. Both turned out looking wonderfull. Once again, thanks for that tip.
Cheers,
James
I also ordered and received a good microphone stand for the UMIK-1 this week. The tiny little thing that came with it is basicly worthless so I've been waiting to get something better to use the mic. I was pretty surprised at the quality of what I got for only €12. I'll be able to position the mic where I want without having to resort to putting it on boxes etc.
So I'm finally getting close to being able to implement the next part of this project, and I also have saved enough to fund it through to finishing the crossover replacement.
Special note to C-atle-79bay: During my fall vacation I sanded down both my kitchen table and living room coffee table and used the OSMO hardwaxoil on them. Both turned out looking wonderfull. Once again, thanks for that tip.
Cheers,
James
c-atle-79bay
Super Member
That's great to hear, can't wait to hear how it holds up, should be fine, it's meant for floors. 
Now I just need to get to one of my speaker projects.
Now I just need to get to one of my speaker projects.
That's great to hear, can't wait to hear how it holds up, should be fine, it's meant for floors.
It's been on my speakers for about a year now. I dust them, from time to time polish them a bit with a soft rag. They look just like the day after I oiled them. Just fine, warm gleaming fine.
On the tables, after 2 months of use I don't notice any difference. Water and food leave no marks so far. And if there is a small defect, as there inevitably will be, I can just lightly sand and work it over with more oil and a rag. I'm happy.
Cheers,
James
Hi James,
I received my Smith Larson several weeks ago but have only limited experience with it so far. I've never used the Dayton version so can't offer any comparisons. I'd like to meet up with a friend that has the WT2, I believe, and do some comparison both of features, ease of use, and results. That will have to wait for a while. I've already found a couple of drivers that repeatedly measure very different from the published specs. I suspect it is because they are alnico magnets which I believe are known to have issues with loss of magnetic strength over time. They are Speakerlab 10inch woofers from an S7. They have a very high Qts and Qes which I believe means they have lower magnetic strength than when they were new. At least I can measure and see these things now.
Hope you enjoy your system when it arrives.
John
I received my Smith Larson several weeks ago but have only limited experience with it so far. I've never used the Dayton version so can't offer any comparisons. I'd like to meet up with a friend that has the WT2, I believe, and do some comparison both of features, ease of use, and results. That will have to wait for a while. I've already found a couple of drivers that repeatedly measure very different from the published specs. I suspect it is because they are alnico magnets which I believe are known to have issues with loss of magnetic strength over time. They are Speakerlab 10inch woofers from an S7. They have a very high Qts and Qes which I believe means they have lower magnetic strength than when they were new. At least I can measure and see these things now.
Hope you enjoy your system when it arrives.
John
Hi John, That sucks about your woofers, but at least you're in one city on the planet where you stand the best chance of finding a pair of original replacements, being ground zero for Speakerlab so to say. If nothing else Paul J at T-LS-S isn't very far away from you, and he seems to be the go-to guy concerning our stuff.
When I get WT2 up and running I'll post my results, as well as REW results. I'll have 2 weeks off around the holidays and will be getting serious again then if I have it. Tracking info shows that my package has left Greensboro NC and is on it's way. USPS states that international priority express takes 3-5 work days for delivery. I'm assuming that I'll have to go to customs to pick it up, and pay at least 19% VAT too.
Cheers,
James
When I get WT2 up and running I'll post my results, as well as REW results. I'll have 2 weeks off around the holidays and will be getting serious again then if I have it. Tracking info shows that my package has left Greensboro NC and is on it's way. USPS states that international priority express takes 3-5 work days for delivery. I'm assuming that I'll have to go to customs to pick it up, and pay at least 19% VAT too.
Cheers,
James
Last edited:
Today I went out to Customs and picked up my S&L WT2 package. I'm too burned out tonight to do anything more than open the box. Nicely packed and everything is there. At the latest by the weekend I'll get it installed and find out if it works running in Linux with Wine. If not a friend is going to loan me a laptop that has some version of Windows installed on it.
Cheers,
James
Cheers,
James
So I've had programs that didn't run well with Linux/Wine, but seldom one that wouldn't install at all. And yet I know from S&L that people have run WT2 in Linux with Wine. But at the moment I'm hitting a wall. At the moment it looks like there is some kind of permissions or syntax issue. Setup starts when selected in Winefile but tells me that it can't find files and craps out. But I've checked the file permissions and they are ok. Tried to install directly from the cd and also after copying the files to a directory on my Home partition. No Joy.
Well, I guess this will just take some time to figure out. It's usually something simple and obscure when dealing with Linux, and there's almost always an answer. Just takes time for a Neanderthal like me. In the meantime I'm taking up my friends offer of the notebook loan to at least get some movement with this.
In the long run, I'll be building a PC for my wife in a month or so and reclaiming my second notebook. Then if I have to I can install WinXP on one notebook, as much as I hate to use MS products.
Cheers,
James
Well, I guess this will just take some time to figure out. It's usually something simple and obscure when dealing with Linux, and there's almost always an answer. Just takes time for a Neanderthal like me. In the meantime I'm taking up my friends offer of the notebook loan to at least get some movement with this.
In the long run, I'll be building a PC for my wife in a month or so and reclaiming my second notebook. Then if I have to I can install WinXP on one notebook, as much as I hate to use MS products.
Cheers,
James
My friend stopped by today and loaned me one of his laptops with Vista on it and I was able to get wt2 installed in short order. There are a couple of extra steps to take with installing on Vista but they are laid out clearly in the quickstart guide.
Also the first start led to doing the first calibration, again went painlessly. Now I just have to learn how to use it, and having a migrane the last 4 days hasn't helped with that. Nonetheless I was able to do a quick first test using one of the old 10" woofers that I had taken out.
Head willing I should be able to start posting the first results in the next day or 2.
On a side note I bought a Yanaha A-500 & T-500 off of the auction site on Friday. The A-500 "needs service" stated the seller, from the description it sounds like it needs Deoxit, which I ordered some of today. But I won the bid for a ridiculously low price so the risk is low. What with the season I don't expect to see it for a week or so. It will be the core of a starter system for the friend that loaned me the laptop, although he doesn't know it yet (and doesn't read English very well heh heh).
Cheers,
James
Also the first start led to doing the first calibration, again went painlessly. Now I just have to learn how to use it, and having a migrane the last 4 days hasn't helped with that. Nonetheless I was able to do a quick first test using one of the old 10" woofers that I had taken out.
Head willing I should be able to start posting the first results in the next day or 2.
On a side note I bought a Yanaha A-500 & T-500 off of the auction site on Friday. The A-500 "needs service" stated the seller, from the description it sounds like it needs Deoxit, which I ordered some of today. But I won the bid for a ridiculously low price so the risk is low. What with the season I don't expect to see it for a week or so. It will be the core of a starter system for the friend that loaned me the laptop, although he doesn't know it yet (and doesn't read English very well heh heh).
Cheers,
James
Well I let myself get badly sidetracked the last few weeks and that combined with the normal stuff that goes wrong in life delayed getting seriously into using WT2 until yesterday.
At the moment I'm just using the old 10" woofers as something to learn with before I start pulling drivers from the boxes. And am having problems. Since yesterday I've done 21 runs on one of the woofers and am getting seriously different results each time. About the only data point that stays the same is Fs at roughly 20hz. Re has run from a low of about 5.35 to a high of about 7.2 ohms for instance, and Qts fro.m roughly 0.18 to 0.27. This is confusing the heck out of me. Here is the results that I just got a few minutes ago...
Buffer[1] Vas Ver 7.01
Completed: Sun Jan 11 12:24:42 2015
Drive level 70.795% [2.394 mA]
Sine,LoZP(LV/LA)->Vas,26 pts
;------------------------------------------------------------------
Re = 5.3558 ohms
Fs = 19.9723 Hz
Zmax = 89.4997 ohms
Qes = 0.1973
Qms = 3.0999
Qts = 0.1855
Le = 2.0291 mH (at 1 kHz)
Diam = 208.0628 mm ( 8.1915 in )
Sd = 34000.0018 mm^2( 52.7001 in^2)
Vas = 269.7095 L ( 9.5247 ft^3)
BL = 11.4762 N/A
Mms = 38.6641 g
Cms = 1642.3805 uM/N
Kms = 608.8723 N/M
Rms = 1.5652 R mechanical
Efficiency = 1.0233 %
Sensitivity= 92.1179 dB @1W/1m
Sensitivity= 93.8606 dB @2.83Vrms/1m
Krm = 9.033E-03 ohms Freq dependent resistance
Erm = 743.537E-03 Rem=Krm*(2*pi*f)^Erm
Kxm = 21.387E-03 Henries Freq dependent reactance
Exm = 723.037E-03 Xem=Kxm*(2*pi*f)^Exm
;------------------------------------------------------------------
Ftest = 11.805 Hz
Ftest/Fms = 0.5911
Test Mass used = 72.0000 g (Equal to 14.4 nickels)
Test Mass (Ft=Fms*0.90) = 9.069 g (Add -62.931g for Ft=17.975)
Test Mass (Ft=Fms*0.75) = 30.072 g (Add -41.928g for Ft=14.979)
Compared to yesterday and earlier...
Buffer[1] Vas Ver 7.01
Completed: Sat Jan 10 15:13:00 2015
Drive level 100.000% [3.377 mA]
Sine,LoZP(LV/LA)->Vas,17 pts
;------------------------------------------------------------------
Re = 6.3804 ohms
Fs = 19.7570 Hz
Zmax = 88.4078 ohms
Qes = 0.2400
Qms = 3.0857
Qts = 0.2227
Le = 2.0245 mH (at 1 kHz)
Diam = 20.4938 mm ( 0.8068 in )
Sd = 329.8650 mm^2( 0.5113 in^2)
Vas = 0.0261 L ( 0.0009 ft^3)
BL = 11.2548 N/A
Mms = 38.3862 g
Cms = 1690.5382 uM/N
Kms = 591.5276 N/M
Rms = 1.5443 R mechanical
Efficiency = 0.0001 %
Sensitivity= 50.9883 dB @1W/1m
Sensitivity= 51.9707 dB @2.83Vrms/1m
Krm = 895.862E-06 ohms Freq dependent resistance
Erm = 938.552E-03 Rem=Krm*(2*pi*f)^Erm
Kxm = 19.862E-03 Henries Freq dependent reactance
Exm = 729.709E-03 Xem=Kxm*(2*pi*f)^Exm
;------------------------------------------------------------------
Ftest = 11.651 Hz
Ftest/Fms = 0.5897
Test Mass used = 72.0000 g (Equal to 14.4 nickels)
Test Mass (Ft=Fms*0.90) = 9.004 g (Add -62.996g for Ft=17.781)
Test Mass (Ft=Fms*0.75) = 29.856 g (Add -42.144g for Ft=14.818)
Buffer[0] Q,Fs Ver 7.01
Completed: Sun Dec 21 13:12:42 2014
Drive level 100.000% [3.476 mA]
Sine,LoZP(LV/LA)->Q/Fs,81 pts
;------------------------------------------------------------------
Re = 6.7196 ohm
Fs = 20.8399 Hz
Zmax = 78.6132 ohm
Ro = 22.8428 ohm
F0 = 12.6574 Hz
F1 = 34.6716 Hz
Fmin = 131.8738 Hz
Qes = 0.3026
Qms = 3.2379
Qts = 0.2768
Le = 2.0037 mH @1k
XLe = 16.9587 ohm @1k
PLe = 47.9330 Deg @1k
;------------------------------------------------;
; Approximate Impedance Fitting Constants ;
; (Improved with Completion of Vas Test) ;
;------------------------------------------------;
Krm = 2.313E-03 ohms Freq dependent resistance
Erm = 853.104E-03 Rem=Krm*(2*pi*f)^Erm
Kxm = 15.781E-03 Henries Freq dependent reactance
Exm = 753.449E-03 Xem=Kxm*(2*pi*f)^Exm
I noticed that one of the test leads seems a bit loose on the bananna end, and in general they are somewhat flimsy. So tomorrow I'll borrow a good set from work and try again.
I took a quick look at the Zobel calculator yesterday and can't make heads or tails of how to use that yet. I have a bit of a learning curve ahead of me it seems.
Cheers,
James
At the moment I'm just using the old 10" woofers as something to learn with before I start pulling drivers from the boxes. And am having problems. Since yesterday I've done 21 runs on one of the woofers and am getting seriously different results each time. About the only data point that stays the same is Fs at roughly 20hz. Re has run from a low of about 5.35 to a high of about 7.2 ohms for instance, and Qts fro.m roughly 0.18 to 0.27. This is confusing the heck out of me. Here is the results that I just got a few minutes ago...
Buffer[1] Vas Ver 7.01
Completed: Sun Jan 11 12:24:42 2015
Drive level 70.795% [2.394 mA]
Sine,LoZP(LV/LA)->Vas,26 pts
;------------------------------------------------------------------
Re = 5.3558 ohms
Fs = 19.9723 Hz
Zmax = 89.4997 ohms
Qes = 0.1973
Qms = 3.0999
Qts = 0.1855
Le = 2.0291 mH (at 1 kHz)
Diam = 208.0628 mm ( 8.1915 in )
Sd = 34000.0018 mm^2( 52.7001 in^2)
Vas = 269.7095 L ( 9.5247 ft^3)
BL = 11.4762 N/A
Mms = 38.6641 g
Cms = 1642.3805 uM/N
Kms = 608.8723 N/M
Rms = 1.5652 R mechanical
Efficiency = 1.0233 %
Sensitivity= 92.1179 dB @1W/1m
Sensitivity= 93.8606 dB @2.83Vrms/1m
Krm = 9.033E-03 ohms Freq dependent resistance
Erm = 743.537E-03 Rem=Krm*(2*pi*f)^Erm
Kxm = 21.387E-03 Henries Freq dependent reactance
Exm = 723.037E-03 Xem=Kxm*(2*pi*f)^Exm
;------------------------------------------------------------------
Ftest = 11.805 Hz
Ftest/Fms = 0.5911
Test Mass used = 72.0000 g (Equal to 14.4 nickels)
Test Mass (Ft=Fms*0.90) = 9.069 g (Add -62.931g for Ft=17.975)
Test Mass (Ft=Fms*0.75) = 30.072 g (Add -41.928g for Ft=14.979)
Compared to yesterday and earlier...
Buffer[1] Vas Ver 7.01
Completed: Sat Jan 10 15:13:00 2015
Drive level 100.000% [3.377 mA]
Sine,LoZP(LV/LA)->Vas,17 pts
;------------------------------------------------------------------
Re = 6.3804 ohms
Fs = 19.7570 Hz
Zmax = 88.4078 ohms
Qes = 0.2400
Qms = 3.0857
Qts = 0.2227
Le = 2.0245 mH (at 1 kHz)
Diam = 20.4938 mm ( 0.8068 in )
Sd = 329.8650 mm^2( 0.5113 in^2)
Vas = 0.0261 L ( 0.0009 ft^3)
BL = 11.2548 N/A
Mms = 38.3862 g
Cms = 1690.5382 uM/N
Kms = 591.5276 N/M
Rms = 1.5443 R mechanical
Efficiency = 0.0001 %
Sensitivity= 50.9883 dB @1W/1m
Sensitivity= 51.9707 dB @2.83Vrms/1m
Krm = 895.862E-06 ohms Freq dependent resistance
Erm = 938.552E-03 Rem=Krm*(2*pi*f)^Erm
Kxm = 19.862E-03 Henries Freq dependent reactance
Exm = 729.709E-03 Xem=Kxm*(2*pi*f)^Exm
;------------------------------------------------------------------
Ftest = 11.651 Hz
Ftest/Fms = 0.5897
Test Mass used = 72.0000 g (Equal to 14.4 nickels)
Test Mass (Ft=Fms*0.90) = 9.004 g (Add -62.996g for Ft=17.781)
Test Mass (Ft=Fms*0.75) = 29.856 g (Add -42.144g for Ft=14.818)
Buffer[0] Q,Fs Ver 7.01
Completed: Sun Dec 21 13:12:42 2014
Drive level 100.000% [3.476 mA]
Sine,LoZP(LV/LA)->Q/Fs,81 pts
;------------------------------------------------------------------
Re = 6.7196 ohm
Fs = 20.8399 Hz
Zmax = 78.6132 ohm
Ro = 22.8428 ohm
F0 = 12.6574 Hz
F1 = 34.6716 Hz
Fmin = 131.8738 Hz
Qes = 0.3026
Qms = 3.2379
Qts = 0.2768
Le = 2.0037 mH @1k
XLe = 16.9587 ohm @1k
PLe = 47.9330 Deg @1k
;------------------------------------------------;
; Approximate Impedance Fitting Constants ;
; (Improved with Completion of Vas Test) ;
;------------------------------------------------;
Krm = 2.313E-03 ohms Freq dependent resistance
Erm = 853.104E-03 Rem=Krm*(2*pi*f)^Erm
Kxm = 15.781E-03 Henries Freq dependent reactance
Exm = 753.449E-03 Xem=Kxm*(2*pi*f)^Exm
I noticed that one of the test leads seems a bit loose on the bananna end, and in general they are somewhat flimsy. So tomorrow I'll borrow a good set from work and try again.
I took a quick look at the Zobel calculator yesterday and can't make heads or tails of how to use that yet. I have a bit of a learning curve ahead of me it seems.
Cheers,
James
These...
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=562036
You have the woofers that I should have if I hadn't been dumb and tossed them long ago if I understand correctly and you have the poly cones. And T/S info on them has been hard to come by, so anything that you post will be very useful to any others that still have them. And I'd be able to add the info to my data spreadsheet so please do play along. :thmbsp:
Cheers,
James
Well, made a little progress today. I made a pair of test leads from some stuff I found in the recycling bin at work. The bananna plugs are more robust and aren't loose in the WT2 interface box, the wires are 1.5mm, and the gator clips are wider and have much stronger springs. I deoxed everything before putting it together and also the speaker terminals after geting home.
But after doing a few test runs I really didn't see any great improvement, the results were wildly different from one test to the other. Then I started exploring the setup window a bit more and noticed that the default buffer size seems to be 4kb. At least that's what was set. So I moved that up to 32kb. Actually I wanted to move it to 64 kb but the setting wouldn't stick. It kept going back down to 32kb for some reason that I din't understand yet.
Anyway, doing 2 tests at this setting produced much more consistant results. There are still many small differences, but the overall results are at least still in the same ballpark. One of the tests gave an error message stating that it had clipped, but then I ran 2 arbitrary sweeps and they turned out almost identical on the graph, and overall the test was reasonably simmilar to the second test. The tests do take much longer to run than with the smaller buffer, but that doesn't bother me as long as I'm making some kind of progress.
Here are the results...
Buffer[1] Vas Ver 7.01
CLIPPING : Mon Jan 12 18:18:45 2015
Drive level 70.795% [1.753 mA]
Sine,LoZP(LV/LA)->Vas,24 pts
;------------------------------------------------------------------
Re = 6.2384 ohms
Fs = 20.0365 Hz
Zmax = 91.5253 ohms
Qes = 0.2281
Qms = 3.1190
Qts = 0.2126
Le = 2.0386 mH (at 1 kHz)
Diam = 208.0628 mm ( 8.1915 in )
Sd = 34000.0018 mm^2( 52.7001 in^2)
Vas = 251.8562 L ( 8.8942 ft^3)
BL = 11.9005 N/A
Mms = 41.1403 g
Cms = 1533.6639 uM/N
Kms = 652.0333 N/M
Rms = 1.6605 R mechanical
Efficiency = 0.8344 %
Sensitivity= 91.2316 dB @1W/1m
Sensitivity= 92.3118 dB @2.83Vrms/1m
Krm = 796.775E-06 ohms Freq dependent resistance
Erm = 949.161E-03 Rem=Krm*(2*pi*f)^Erm
Kxm = 21.255E-03 Henries Freq dependent reactance
Exm = 722.932E-03 Xem=Kxm*(2*pi*f)^Exm
;------------------------------------------------------------------
Ftest = 12.082 Hz
Ftest/Fms = 0.6030
Test Mass used = 72.0000 g (Equal to 14.4 nickels)
Test Mass (Ft=Fms*0.90) = 9.650 g (Add -62.350g for Ft=18.033)
Test Mass (Ft=Fms*0.75) = 31.998 g (Add -40.002g for Ft=15.027)
___________________________________________________________________
Buffer[1] Vas Ver 7.01
Completed: Mon Jan 12 20:05:51 2015
Drive level 70.795% [1.675 mA]
Sine,LoZP(LV/LA)->Vas,28 pts
;------------------------------------------------------------------
Re = 6.2262 ohms
Fs = 19.9939 Hz
Zmax = 89.4992 ohms
Qes = 0.2289
Qms = 3.0610
Qts = 0.2129
Le = 2.0367 mH (at 1 kHz)
Diam = 208.0628 mm ( 8.1915 in )
Sd = 34000.0018 mm^2( 52.7001 in^2)
Vas = 242.0932 L ( 8.5494 ft^3)
BL = 12.1200 N/A
Mms = 42.9818 g
Cms = 1474.2124 uM/N
Kms = 678.3283 N/M
Rms = 1.7640 R mechanical
Efficiency = 0.7944 %
Sensitivity= 91.0185 dB @1W/1m
Sensitivity= 92.1071 dB @2.83Vrms/1m
Krm = 723.646E-06 ohms Freq dependent resistance
Erm = 957.905E-03 Rem=Krm*(2*pi*f)^Erm
Kxm = 20.808E-03 Henries Freq dependent reactance
Exm = 724.129E-03 Xem=Kxm*(2*pi*f)^Exm
;------------------------------------------------------------------
Ftest = 12.224 Hz
Ftest/Fms = 0.6114
Test Mass used = 72.0000 g (Equal to 14.4 nickels)
Test Mass (Ft=Fms*0.90) = 10.082 g (Add -61.918g for Ft=17.995)
Test Mass (Ft=Fms*0.75) = 33.430 g (Add -38.570g for Ft=14.995)
Note that with my multimeter I measured 6.3 ohms DCR on this speaker. I'm confused as to weather the Re result in the test is inductance or DCR. If the latter then at least it is close to what I measured. Also, I just realized that I forgot to recalibrate after switching to the new leads. But at least any error should be consistant with the 2 tests. And I'm just kind of guessing concerning the Sd of this woofer. At least when I get to testing the W1208, ScanSpeak, and Wavetek I'll have actual OEM numbers to work with.
John/nerdorama, Any input that you have to pass on as far as wt2 setup and settings, tips etc would be greatly apreaciated. I'm just kind of groping my way forward here.
Cheers,
James
But after doing a few test runs I really didn't see any great improvement, the results were wildly different from one test to the other. Then I started exploring the setup window a bit more and noticed that the default buffer size seems to be 4kb. At least that's what was set. So I moved that up to 32kb. Actually I wanted to move it to 64 kb but the setting wouldn't stick. It kept going back down to 32kb for some reason that I din't understand yet.
Anyway, doing 2 tests at this setting produced much more consistant results. There are still many small differences, but the overall results are at least still in the same ballpark. One of the tests gave an error message stating that it had clipped, but then I ran 2 arbitrary sweeps and they turned out almost identical on the graph, and overall the test was reasonably simmilar to the second test. The tests do take much longer to run than with the smaller buffer, but that doesn't bother me as long as I'm making some kind of progress.
Here are the results...
Buffer[1] Vas Ver 7.01
CLIPPING : Mon Jan 12 18:18:45 2015
Drive level 70.795% [1.753 mA]
Sine,LoZP(LV/LA)->Vas,24 pts
;------------------------------------------------------------------
Re = 6.2384 ohms
Fs = 20.0365 Hz
Zmax = 91.5253 ohms
Qes = 0.2281
Qms = 3.1190
Qts = 0.2126
Le = 2.0386 mH (at 1 kHz)
Diam = 208.0628 mm ( 8.1915 in )
Sd = 34000.0018 mm^2( 52.7001 in^2)
Vas = 251.8562 L ( 8.8942 ft^3)
BL = 11.9005 N/A
Mms = 41.1403 g
Cms = 1533.6639 uM/N
Kms = 652.0333 N/M
Rms = 1.6605 R mechanical
Efficiency = 0.8344 %
Sensitivity= 91.2316 dB @1W/1m
Sensitivity= 92.3118 dB @2.83Vrms/1m
Krm = 796.775E-06 ohms Freq dependent resistance
Erm = 949.161E-03 Rem=Krm*(2*pi*f)^Erm
Kxm = 21.255E-03 Henries Freq dependent reactance
Exm = 722.932E-03 Xem=Kxm*(2*pi*f)^Exm
;------------------------------------------------------------------
Ftest = 12.082 Hz
Ftest/Fms = 0.6030
Test Mass used = 72.0000 g (Equal to 14.4 nickels)
Test Mass (Ft=Fms*0.90) = 9.650 g (Add -62.350g for Ft=18.033)
Test Mass (Ft=Fms*0.75) = 31.998 g (Add -40.002g for Ft=15.027)
___________________________________________________________________
Buffer[1] Vas Ver 7.01
Completed: Mon Jan 12 20:05:51 2015
Drive level 70.795% [1.675 mA]
Sine,LoZP(LV/LA)->Vas,28 pts
;------------------------------------------------------------------
Re = 6.2262 ohms
Fs = 19.9939 Hz
Zmax = 89.4992 ohms
Qes = 0.2289
Qms = 3.0610
Qts = 0.2129
Le = 2.0367 mH (at 1 kHz)
Diam = 208.0628 mm ( 8.1915 in )
Sd = 34000.0018 mm^2( 52.7001 in^2)
Vas = 242.0932 L ( 8.5494 ft^3)
BL = 12.1200 N/A
Mms = 42.9818 g
Cms = 1474.2124 uM/N
Kms = 678.3283 N/M
Rms = 1.7640 R mechanical
Efficiency = 0.7944 %
Sensitivity= 91.0185 dB @1W/1m
Sensitivity= 92.1071 dB @2.83Vrms/1m
Krm = 723.646E-06 ohms Freq dependent resistance
Erm = 957.905E-03 Rem=Krm*(2*pi*f)^Erm
Kxm = 20.808E-03 Henries Freq dependent reactance
Exm = 724.129E-03 Xem=Kxm*(2*pi*f)^Exm
;------------------------------------------------------------------
Ftest = 12.224 Hz
Ftest/Fms = 0.6114
Test Mass used = 72.0000 g (Equal to 14.4 nickels)
Test Mass (Ft=Fms*0.90) = 10.082 g (Add -61.918g for Ft=17.995)
Test Mass (Ft=Fms*0.75) = 33.430 g (Add -38.570g for Ft=14.995)
Note that with my multimeter I measured 6.3 ohms DCR on this speaker. I'm confused as to weather the Re result in the test is inductance or DCR. If the latter then at least it is close to what I measured. Also, I just realized that I forgot to recalibrate after switching to the new leads. But at least any error should be consistant with the 2 tests. And I'm just kind of guessing concerning the Sd of this woofer. At least when I get to testing the W1208, ScanSpeak, and Wavetek I'll have actual OEM numbers to work with.
John/nerdorama, Any input that you have to pass on as far as wt2 setup and settings, tips etc would be greatly apreaciated. I'm just kind of groping my way forward here.
Cheers,
James
Last edited:
In the pop up box for the Vas test wt2 has a list that states 10" = 40 to 80 grams weight. I had a handfull of coins that weighed 49.6 grams and that washer was nearby and weighed 72 grams. So, totally random weights within the recommended range. I would guess that getting nearer to the middle point of 60 grams would be better, and will try to do so once I get to doing something that might be called a final test. Right now I'm just trying to learn how to use the tester and get consistant results. I want to be able to run 5 tests in a row and see they are within a small percent of each other.
Cheers,
James
By today I finally feel like I understand how to use the program well enough to get consistant test results, can't say that I understand all that much of what I'm getting, but at least the results are consistant.
Tonight my son helped me set on speaker on it's back on a couple of sawhorses and tomorrow I'll start pulling drivers and testing. But first just for the heck of it I plugged a set of test leads directly into the speaker bananna inputs and ran a test. I wanted to see what it showed for an impedance sweep. I thought that it would give me something to compare with after reworking the crossover.
Interesting the way the impedance rises up and peaks at the woofer/mid crossover point, then drops slowly till the upper crossover point, and then flatlines. It will be interesting to see what differences the program shows me for zobel component values for the woofers and if the impedance stays more flat after changing that.
Buffer[0] Q,Fs Ver 7.01
Completed: Tue Jan 20 18:04:47 2015
Drive level 70.795% [618.748 uA]
Sine,LoZP(LV/LA)->Q/Fs,92 pts
;------------------------------------------------------------------
Re = 3.4111 ohm
Fs = 45.7268 Hz
Zmax = 13.7482 ohm
Ro = 6.8481 ohm
F0 = 35.7925 Hz
F1 = 54.6446 Hz
Fmin = 5.1476 kHz
Qes = 1.6069
Qms = 4.8695
Qts = 1.2082
Le = 0.0000 H @1k
XLe = 5.6159 ohm @1k
PLe = -12.3441 Deg @1k
Cheers,
James
Tonight my son helped me set on speaker on it's back on a couple of sawhorses and tomorrow I'll start pulling drivers and testing. But first just for the heck of it I plugged a set of test leads directly into the speaker bananna inputs and ran a test. I wanted to see what it showed for an impedance sweep. I thought that it would give me something to compare with after reworking the crossover.
Interesting the way the impedance rises up and peaks at the woofer/mid crossover point, then drops slowly till the upper crossover point, and then flatlines. It will be interesting to see what differences the program shows me for zobel component values for the woofers and if the impedance stays more flat after changing that.
Buffer[0] Q,Fs Ver 7.01
Completed: Tue Jan 20 18:04:47 2015
Drive level 70.795% [618.748 uA]
Sine,LoZP(LV/LA)->Q/Fs,92 pts
;------------------------------------------------------------------
Re = 3.4111 ohm
Fs = 45.7268 Hz
Zmax = 13.7482 ohm
Ro = 6.8481 ohm
F0 = 35.7925 Hz
F1 = 54.6446 Hz
Fmin = 5.1476 kHz
Qes = 1.6069
Qms = 4.8695
Qts = 1.2082
Le = 0.0000 H @1k
XLe = 5.6159 ohm @1k
PLe = -12.3441 Deg @1k
Cheers,
James
Last edited:
So I pulled the woofers yesterday and have been doing test runs. The W1208 results are actually very close to the published values from the 1980 catalog, especially considering that they have had the surrounds replaced with non original surrounds. But it surprised me how close the results are. Very promising.
Buffer[1] Vas Ver 7.01
Completed: Wed Jan 21 16:57:28 2015
Drive level 63.096% [686.625 uA]
Sine,LoZP(LV/LA)->Vas,31 pts
;------------------------------------------------------------------
Re = 6.1771 ohms
Fs = 21.6312 Hz
Zmax = 40.5763 ohms
Qes = 0.5034
Qms = 2.8035
Qts = 0.4268
Le = 1.7669 mH (at 1 kHz)
Diam = 259.7724 mm ( 10.2273 in )
Sd = 52999.9994 mm^2( 82.1502 in^2)
Vas = 311.8860 L ( 11.0141 ft^3)
BL = 10.7474 N/A
Mms = 69.2624 g
Cms = 781.5909 uM/N
Kms = 1279.4417 N/M
Rms = 3.3579 R mechanical
Efficiency = 0.5892 %
Sensitivity= 89.7206 dB @1W/1m
Sensitivity= 90.8437 dB @2.83Vrms/1m
Krm = 6.130E-03 ohms Freq dependent resistance
Erm = 759.762E-03 Rem=Krm*(2*pi*f)^Erm
Kxm = 32.621E-03 Henries Freq dependent reactance
Exm = 664.715E-03 Xem=Kxm*(2*pi*f)^Exm
;------------------------------------------------------------------
Ftest = 14.004 Hz
Ftest/Fms = 0.6474
Test Mass used = 96.0000 g (Equal to 19.2 nickels)
Test Mass (Ft=Fms*0.90) = 16.247 g (Add -79.753g for Ft=19.468)
Test Mass (Ft=Fms*0.75) = 53.871 g (Add -42.129g for Ft=16.223)
And looking at those surrounds again they really don't look like your normal foam. They look something like a cross between rubber and foam. So I contacted the guy that did the surrounds and it turns out that he used santoprene. So perhaps not quite so bad as I had thought earlier.
But on to the ScanSpeak 10". The results baffle me. John, you mentioned that the results for your W1008s showed a very high Q. And funny enough (or not so funny really) my less than 1 year old 10" chassis are geting results that are way off of ScanSpeaks data sheet. I realize that OEM specs are cherry picked and often manipulated, but I'm having a hard time believing that they can be this far off.
Compare the wt2 results...
Buffer[0] Q,Fs Ver 7.01
Completed: Wed Jan 21 19:00:33 2015
Drive level 70.795% [2.083 mA]
Sine,LoZP(LV/LA)->Q/Fs,88 pts
;------------------------------------------------------------------
Re = 5.4339 ohm
Fs = 28.3659 Hz
Zmax = 74.4566 ohm
Ro = 20.1084 ohm
F0 = 23.4667 Hz
F1 = 35.1932 Hz
Fmin = 229.0896 Hz
Qes = 0.7049
Qms = 8.9541
Qts = 0.6535
Le = 330.0874 uH @1k
XLe = 7.0276 ohm @1k
PLe = 17.1649 Deg @1k
;------------------------------------------------;
; Approximate Impedance Fitting Constants ;
; (Improved with Completion of Vas Test) ;
;------------------------------------------------;
Krm = 2.977E-03 ohms Freq dependent resistance
Erm = 681.232E-03 Rem=Krm*(2*pi*f)^Erm
Kxm = 4.903E-03 Henries Freq dependent reactance
Exm = 732.031E-03 Xem=Kxm*(2*pi*f)^Exm
... with the ScanSpeak 25W8565-00 data sheet...
T-S Parameters
Resonance frequency [fs] = 20 Hz
Mechanical Q factor [Qms] = 5.40
Electrical Q factor [Qes] = 0.44
Total Q factor [Qts] = 0.41
Force factor [Bl] = 8.2 Tm
Mechanical resistance [Rms] = 1.00 kg/s
Moving mass [Mms] = 43 g
Suspension compliance [Cms] = 1.47 mm/N
Effective diaph. diameter [D] = 205 mm
Effective piston area [Sd] = 330 cm2
Equivalent volume [Vas] = 225 l
Sensitivity (2.83V/1m) = 88 dB
Ratio Bl/√Re = 3.50 N/√W
Ratio fs/Qts = 49 Hz
Nominal impedance [Zn] = 8 Ω
Minimum impedance [Zmin] = 6.2 Ω
Maximum impedance [Zo] = 73.0 Ω
DC resistance [Re] = 5.5 Ω
Voice coil inductance [Le] = 0.4 mH
So I really don't know what to do with this. But tomorrow I plan on doing a test with both woofers in parallel as if they were a single 15" woofer.
Cheers,
James
Buffer[1] Vas Ver 7.01
Completed: Wed Jan 21 16:57:28 2015
Drive level 63.096% [686.625 uA]
Sine,LoZP(LV/LA)->Vas,31 pts
;------------------------------------------------------------------
Re = 6.1771 ohms
Fs = 21.6312 Hz
Zmax = 40.5763 ohms
Qes = 0.5034
Qms = 2.8035
Qts = 0.4268
Le = 1.7669 mH (at 1 kHz)
Diam = 259.7724 mm ( 10.2273 in )
Sd = 52999.9994 mm^2( 82.1502 in^2)
Vas = 311.8860 L ( 11.0141 ft^3)
BL = 10.7474 N/A
Mms = 69.2624 g
Cms = 781.5909 uM/N
Kms = 1279.4417 N/M
Rms = 3.3579 R mechanical
Efficiency = 0.5892 %
Sensitivity= 89.7206 dB @1W/1m
Sensitivity= 90.8437 dB @2.83Vrms/1m
Krm = 6.130E-03 ohms Freq dependent resistance
Erm = 759.762E-03 Rem=Krm*(2*pi*f)^Erm
Kxm = 32.621E-03 Henries Freq dependent reactance
Exm = 664.715E-03 Xem=Kxm*(2*pi*f)^Exm
;------------------------------------------------------------------
Ftest = 14.004 Hz
Ftest/Fms = 0.6474
Test Mass used = 96.0000 g (Equal to 19.2 nickels)
Test Mass (Ft=Fms*0.90) = 16.247 g (Add -79.753g for Ft=19.468)
Test Mass (Ft=Fms*0.75) = 53.871 g (Add -42.129g for Ft=16.223)
And looking at those surrounds again they really don't look like your normal foam. They look something like a cross between rubber and foam. So I contacted the guy that did the surrounds and it turns out that he used santoprene. So perhaps not quite so bad as I had thought earlier.
But on to the ScanSpeak 10". The results baffle me. John, you mentioned that the results for your W1008s showed a very high Q. And funny enough (or not so funny really) my less than 1 year old 10" chassis are geting results that are way off of ScanSpeaks data sheet. I realize that OEM specs are cherry picked and often manipulated, but I'm having a hard time believing that they can be this far off.
Compare the wt2 results...
Buffer[0] Q,Fs Ver 7.01
Completed: Wed Jan 21 19:00:33 2015
Drive level 70.795% [2.083 mA]
Sine,LoZP(LV/LA)->Q/Fs,88 pts
;------------------------------------------------------------------
Re = 5.4339 ohm
Fs = 28.3659 Hz
Zmax = 74.4566 ohm
Ro = 20.1084 ohm
F0 = 23.4667 Hz
F1 = 35.1932 Hz
Fmin = 229.0896 Hz
Qes = 0.7049
Qms = 8.9541
Qts = 0.6535
Le = 330.0874 uH @1k
XLe = 7.0276 ohm @1k
PLe = 17.1649 Deg @1k
;------------------------------------------------;
; Approximate Impedance Fitting Constants ;
; (Improved with Completion of Vas Test) ;
;------------------------------------------------;
Krm = 2.977E-03 ohms Freq dependent resistance
Erm = 681.232E-03 Rem=Krm*(2*pi*f)^Erm
Kxm = 4.903E-03 Henries Freq dependent reactance
Exm = 732.031E-03 Xem=Kxm*(2*pi*f)^Exm
... with the ScanSpeak 25W8565-00 data sheet...
T-S Parameters
Resonance frequency [fs] = 20 Hz
Mechanical Q factor [Qms] = 5.40
Electrical Q factor [Qes] = 0.44
Total Q factor [Qts] = 0.41
Force factor [Bl] = 8.2 Tm
Mechanical resistance [Rms] = 1.00 kg/s
Moving mass [Mms] = 43 g
Suspension compliance [Cms] = 1.47 mm/N
Effective diaph. diameter [D] = 205 mm
Effective piston area [Sd] = 330 cm2
Equivalent volume [Vas] = 225 l
Sensitivity (2.83V/1m) = 88 dB
Ratio Bl/√Re = 3.50 N/√W
Ratio fs/Qts = 49 Hz
Nominal impedance [Zn] = 8 Ω
Minimum impedance [Zmin] = 6.2 Ω
Maximum impedance [Zo] = 73.0 Ω
DC resistance [Re] = 5.5 Ω
Voice coil inductance [Le] = 0.4 mH
So I really don't know what to do with this. But tomorrow I plan on doing a test with both woofers in parallel as if they were a single 15" woofer.
Cheers,
James
Last edited:
OK, Friday I ran wt2 on the combined 10" & 12". I made a set of double test leads going to single bananna plugs, ran a new calibration with them, and did 2 runs. The results were basicly the same for the 2 runs.
Just to see what would happen I also ran the Vas test. I used 96gm weight on the 12" and 63gm on the 10" with various thick washers that I had nearby. I told the program that I used 159 grams, less than the mid point of what the program reccomends. The 10" has a Sd of 0.033m² and the 12" 0.053m² for a combined Sd of 0.086m². In comparison the W1015S has a Sd of 0.086m². Dia was fudged and 330.9mm was used.
Doing this might be completely wrong but I saw it as the most logical way to get results with 2 differently sized speakers. I don't have the brainpower to try to do the math by myself. And I need to get some numbers that I can use to buy caps & resistors to make a new zobel.
If I'm understanding things correctly I need to have the new zobels hooked to the paralled speakers and then do anothar test run to finally get numbers that I can use to run in a crossover sim program to check what coils and caps I need to tweak the crossover to match all of my new drivers?
Anyway, after the run I imported the data to the TS module and ran the zobel calculator at 350hz. It told me that I need a 4.1 ohm resistor and a 64.16µF cap. That compares to 66µF (2x33µF) in the original crossover. So I'm thinking that perhaps the idea of doing the test this way might not be so crazy after all.
So today I ordered 4ea 8.2 ohm resistors, 2ea 8.2µF and 2ea 56µF caps. 10 watt MOX resistors and Jantzen Cross Caps. That should combine to 4.1 ohms with 2ea of the 8.2 in parallel, and 64.2µF with an 8.2 and 56µF in parallel. I went ahead and ordered enough for both speakers as the parts will be then used in the new crossovers.
Buffer[1] Vas Ver 7.01
Completed: Fri Jan 23 17:39:50 2015
Drive level 70.795% [2.366 mA]
Sine,LoZP(LV/LA)->Vas,25 pts
;------------------------------------------------------------------
Re = 2.8892 ohms
Fs = 26.3027 Hz
Zmax = 22.4595 ohms
Qes = 0.6155
Qms = 4.1695
Qts = 0.5364
Le = 0.3297 mH (at 1 kHz)
Diam = 330.9057 mm ( 13.0278 in )
Sd = 86000.0029 mm^2(133.3003 in^2)
Vas = 357.4792 L ( 12.6243 ft^3)
BL = 9.1363 N/A
Mms = 107.6096 g
Cms = 340.2430 uM/N
Kms = 2939.0757 N/M
Rms = 4.2653 R mechanical
Efficiency = 0.9930 %
Sensitivity= 91.9874 dB @1W/1m
Sensitivity= 96.4106 dB @2.83Vrms/1m
Krm = 6.037E-03 ohms Freq dependent resistance
Erm = 614.576E-03 Rem=Krm*(2*pi*f)^Erm
Kxm = 9.857E-03 Henries Freq dependent reactance
Exm = 647.130E-03 Xem=Kxm*(2*pi*f)^Exm
;------------------------------------------------------------------
Ftest = 16.710 Hz
Ftest/Fms = 0.6353
Test Mass used = 159.0000 g (Equal to 31.8 nickels)
Test Mass (Ft=Fms*0.90) = 25.242 g (Add -133.758g for Ft=23.672)
Test Mass (Ft=Fms*0.75) = 83.696 g (Add -75.304g for Ft=19.727)
Cheers,
James
Just to see what would happen I also ran the Vas test. I used 96gm weight on the 12" and 63gm on the 10" with various thick washers that I had nearby. I told the program that I used 159 grams, less than the mid point of what the program reccomends. The 10" has a Sd of 0.033m² and the 12" 0.053m² for a combined Sd of 0.086m². In comparison the W1015S has a Sd of 0.086m². Dia was fudged and 330.9mm was used.
Doing this might be completely wrong but I saw it as the most logical way to get results with 2 differently sized speakers. I don't have the brainpower to try to do the math by myself. And I need to get some numbers that I can use to buy caps & resistors to make a new zobel.
If I'm understanding things correctly I need to have the new zobels hooked to the paralled speakers and then do anothar test run to finally get numbers that I can use to run in a crossover sim program to check what coils and caps I need to tweak the crossover to match all of my new drivers?
Anyway, after the run I imported the data to the TS module and ran the zobel calculator at 350hz. It told me that I need a 4.1 ohm resistor and a 64.16µF cap. That compares to 66µF (2x33µF) in the original crossover. So I'm thinking that perhaps the idea of doing the test this way might not be so crazy after all.
So today I ordered 4ea 8.2 ohm resistors, 2ea 8.2µF and 2ea 56µF caps. 10 watt MOX resistors and Jantzen Cross Caps. That should combine to 4.1 ohms with 2ea of the 8.2 in parallel, and 64.2µF with an 8.2 and 56µF in parallel. I went ahead and ordered enough for both speakers as the parts will be then used in the new crossovers.
Buffer[1] Vas Ver 7.01
Completed: Fri Jan 23 17:39:50 2015
Drive level 70.795% [2.366 mA]
Sine,LoZP(LV/LA)->Vas,25 pts
;------------------------------------------------------------------
Re = 2.8892 ohms
Fs = 26.3027 Hz
Zmax = 22.4595 ohms
Qes = 0.6155
Qms = 4.1695
Qts = 0.5364
Le = 0.3297 mH (at 1 kHz)
Diam = 330.9057 mm ( 13.0278 in )
Sd = 86000.0029 mm^2(133.3003 in^2)
Vas = 357.4792 L ( 12.6243 ft^3)
BL = 9.1363 N/A
Mms = 107.6096 g
Cms = 340.2430 uM/N
Kms = 2939.0757 N/M
Rms = 4.2653 R mechanical
Efficiency = 0.9930 %
Sensitivity= 91.9874 dB @1W/1m
Sensitivity= 96.4106 dB @2.83Vrms/1m
Krm = 6.037E-03 ohms Freq dependent resistance
Erm = 614.576E-03 Rem=Krm*(2*pi*f)^Erm
Kxm = 9.857E-03 Henries Freq dependent reactance
Exm = 647.130E-03 Xem=Kxm*(2*pi*f)^Exm
;------------------------------------------------------------------
Ftest = 16.710 Hz
Ftest/Fms = 0.6353
Test Mass used = 159.0000 g (Equal to 31.8 nickels)
Test Mass (Ft=Fms*0.90) = 25.242 g (Add -133.758g for Ft=23.672)
Test Mass (Ft=Fms*0.75) = 83.696 g (Add -75.304g for Ft=19.727)
Cheers,
James
Last edited:
Over the last week I've exported the results from wt2 as zma files and started using Xsim to play around with them. This is my first experience with using xsim and it has been enlightening. I don't pretend to have learned anything more than the barest beginnings of understanding what's going on here but that has been quite usefull.
One important point that I learned is that I should have paid better attention to what others have said that trying to lower the coil dcr like I wanted to isn't really a good idea. It seems to be counterproductive in that it produces massive peaks at the crossover points. So I dropped that idea and kept the wire diameters close to what would give similar resistance values as the originals, the main change being Jantzen Cross Caps, and MOX resistors, most importantly the woofer coil being switched from iron core to air core. And of course bringing the crossover points back to 350/3800. They look to have both drifted down with the new drivers.
This reduced the cost of completely replacing the crossovers considerably. Which reduces the risk of making a mistake considerably, and it won't cost very much to make changes if/when (most likely) I need to do some tweaks. Following through on mounting the crossover externally on the back of the cab will make it relatively easy to mod it.
So I just made an order fron Europe Audio for €117 for new parts.
Another benefit from doing all of this driver removal and measuring is finding another blunder that I made earlier. I thought that I had replaced all of those rubber seals that I had first used with foam seals but when I pulled the tweeters I found that I had forgotten and left the rubber seals in. And saw from the impressions on the seals that they weren't making full contact.
It really PO'd me to have made such a simple dumb mistake. Again. All this time I wasn't getting completely sealed boxes. So I cut new foam seals for the tweeters and OMG. Now, finally, I'm getting the sound that I should have. The bass is back the way it should be, the overall sound has really warmed up, and the sound stage has improved.
I think that I'm going to buy some press nuts and machine screws and get away from using clamps to hold the drivers in. It would be nice to get away from sealing issues.
Cheers,
James
One important point that I learned is that I should have paid better attention to what others have said that trying to lower the coil dcr like I wanted to isn't really a good idea. It seems to be counterproductive in that it produces massive peaks at the crossover points. So I dropped that idea and kept the wire diameters close to what would give similar resistance values as the originals, the main change being Jantzen Cross Caps, and MOX resistors, most importantly the woofer coil being switched from iron core to air core. And of course bringing the crossover points back to 350/3800. They look to have both drifted down with the new drivers.
This reduced the cost of completely replacing the crossovers considerably. Which reduces the risk of making a mistake considerably, and it won't cost very much to make changes if/when (most likely) I need to do some tweaks. Following through on mounting the crossover externally on the back of the cab will make it relatively easy to mod it.
So I just made an order fron Europe Audio for €117 for new parts.
Another benefit from doing all of this driver removal and measuring is finding another blunder that I made earlier. I thought that I had replaced all of those rubber seals that I had first used with foam seals but when I pulled the tweeters I found that I had forgotten and left the rubber seals in. And saw from the impressions on the seals that they weren't making full contact.
It really PO'd me to have made such a simple dumb mistake. Again. All this time I wasn't getting completely sealed boxes. So I cut new foam seals for the tweeters and OMG. Now, finally, I'm getting the sound that I should have. The bass is back the way it should be, the overall sound has really warmed up, and the sound stage has improved.
I think that I'm going to buy some press nuts and machine screws and get away from using clamps to hold the drivers in. It would be nice to get away from sealing issues.
Cheers,
James