c-atle-79bay
Super Member
So an early Nestorovic?
Speakerlab S7s Rebuild and Modding (Ribbon Tweeter Model)
- Thread starter Bratwurst7s
- Start date
GuyK, Thanks. I read through the thread. It would be good to know exactly how they fastened their braces. I couldn't/can't see any good way to glue the ends of a brace at this point. If my momma had produced a smarter son I would have installed front braces when I assembled these kits 30 years ago, with glue and screws. Unfortunately she didn't and I didn't either.
The only way that I can see to get glue on the ends of the brace is to allow clearance and then screw them tight, but that would pull the baffles in. And when I laid a straight edge on the baffles I saw that they were a little concave at the start. So I really wanted to cut the brace slightly long and use them to push the baffle back to parallel, but working them into position would then scrape any glue off as they were placed/slid/pushed into position.
In the end I cut them slightly long and worked them carefully into position dry just above the center of the 2 woofers where I could then screw it up into the side brace for extra stability. I have no idea if that is the best way to go, but they are in, and feel pretty solid. I used stainless steel screws for their low magnetic and low corrosion properties.
The only way that I can see to get glue on the ends of the brace is to allow clearance and then screw them tight, but that would pull the baffles in. And when I laid a straight edge on the baffles I saw that they were a little concave at the start. So I really wanted to cut the brace slightly long and use them to push the baffle back to parallel, but working them into position would then scrape any glue off as they were placed/slid/pushed into position.
In the end I cut them slightly long and worked them carefully into position dry just above the center of the 2 woofers where I could then screw it up into the side brace for extra stability. I have no idea if that is the best way to go, but they are in, and feel pretty solid. I used stainless steel screws for their low magnetic and low corrosion properties.
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Hi scorewin, Paul Johnston described David Graebener as "the father of the Speakerlab 7" when he wrote me about the 7. But all of that is way beyond my personal experience. Back in '83 when I bought these things I was just a young guy crazy about motorcycles, airplanes, rock music and girls. And I felt that these speakers would help me along with that. Now I'm just trying to correct the flaws of time and my original work. 
c-atle-79bay
Super Member
well ill be thought it was the same as the s40 or s50.,
http://www.speakerlab.com/catalog_15_1981.html
http://www.speakerlab.com/catalog_15_1981.html
Lately I've been having this dream. While sleeping, awake, all the time, like a thousand ants in my head. Can't make it stop.
Picture a "Truly awesome Super 7 oak dugout canoe model" speaker. Not any kind of veneer of glued together panels of wood. But something that I could never afford to buy let alone do. 2 enormous pieces of oak. Routed carved drilled out of solid oak. It would have to be planned from the inside out to the last cubic whatever. Walls left 2 inches thick No sharp edges inside but smooth curves. Braces not added but simply left behind as the inside cavity is carved out. The crossovers mounted in a space carved out from behind in back of the tweeters. Feet that aren't added on but formed directly out of the base. All polished beautifully.
A truly massive Ent of a speaker cabinet. Such is the stuff that keeps a middle-aged guy awake at night.
Picture a "Truly awesome Super 7 oak dugout canoe model" speaker. Not any kind of veneer of glued together panels of wood. But something that I could never afford to buy let alone do. 2 enormous pieces of oak. Routed carved drilled out of solid oak. It would have to be planned from the inside out to the last cubic whatever. Walls left 2 inches thick No sharp edges inside but smooth curves. Braces not added but simply left behind as the inside cavity is carved out. The crossovers mounted in a space carved out from behind in back of the tweeters. Feet that aren't added on but formed directly out of the base. All polished beautifully.
A truly massive Ent of a speaker cabinet. Such is the stuff that keeps a middle-aged guy awake at night.
Today I got the 2nd front brace and both binding post blocks installed. And the bill for my woofers is paid now. Tomorrow I'll try to get started with sanding. One cab is in very good shape and the other has a little weathering and the top has some scratches from when they were shipped over here back in '97. Somewhere on one of them there are some light pencil marks thanks to one of my kids. Tot too bad all in all and I hope to have the sanding, oiling and polishing done by the end of this week. And I still have to find some good wax and do that too. We'll see. Wednesday I'll be going out to the Oktoberfest so that will lose one day this week for sure.
A couple of details that I didn't mention before. When I removed one of the tweeters I found that the gasket had been damaged and at some point I had used some silicone to seal it, so I'll have to make a gasket for that. Shouldn't be a problem but I have no memory of when or why that happened.
The second thing is that the tweeter/midrange baffle had some self adhesive foam wrapped around the edge to diffuse reflections. The foam had mostly disintegrated and I've removed all of that now. The only replacement foam I've found so far is white and 2mm too wide so I'll keep looking. But at least that isn't too urgent.
Cheers,
James
A couple of details that I didn't mention before. When I removed one of the tweeters I found that the gasket had been damaged and at some point I had used some silicone to seal it, so I'll have to make a gasket for that. Shouldn't be a problem but I have no memory of when or why that happened.
The second thing is that the tweeter/midrange baffle had some self adhesive foam wrapped around the edge to diffuse reflections. The foam had mostly disintegrated and I've removed all of that now. The only replacement foam I've found so far is white and 2mm too wide so I'll keep looking. But at least that isn't too urgent.
Cheers,
James
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c-atle-79bay
Super Member
Why are you having Okoberfest in October? Is this a southern thing?
Nope. The Oktoberfest fairgrounds are actually over on the west side of town. It actually starts in Sept, but who's counting. But a Mass bier costs almost €10 this year so I doubt that I'll even try to get into one of the beer tents. Heck, I can go over to the store and buy a case of the same stuff for €15.
How do you like that pro-ject 2 turntable in your sig? I almost bought one a few years ago but in the end gave my whole vinyl collection and turntable to my son.
How do you like that pro-ject 2 turntable in your sig? I almost bought one a few years ago but in the end gave my whole vinyl collection and turntable to my son.
Question to anyone that's done a lot of cabinet sanding. I bought 320, 400, and 600 grit sandpaper. Is starting with 320 too course? I'm having second thoughts (ok, fear) and don't really want to screw up and go too deep. Thanks,
James
James
c-atle-79bay
Super Member
I like the table, was curbed with a set of Wharfedales in the rain, had to do some work, would have been better to buy it new really.
Are you going to use a wax or a poly? If you use a wax, you might test a piece first, with waxes you can sand too fine and create penetration issues, at least this is the case of floors. I've also done a quick experiment with OSMO hardwax oil, which should be readily available in Germany, it sets up really hard and can always be repaired but does not stay waxy. They were the ones that warned to too fine of sanding can result in lack or penetration. Granted this is a flooring product.
Are you going to use a wax or a poly? If you use a wax, you might test a piece first, with waxes you can sand too fine and create penetration issues, at least this is the case of floors. I've also done a quick experiment with OSMO hardwax oil, which should be readily available in Germany, it sets up really hard and can always be repaired but does not stay waxy. They were the ones that warned to too fine of sanding can result in lack or penetration. Granted this is a flooring product.
Thanks. I don't really have any similar wood to use as a test piece, so I guess I'll just start down low on a side near the back, start a light section and see what happens. As far as oil I don't really know much about them. What I bought is "Clou" colorless wood oil. But I just realized that I'm being a little dumb again. We have a carpenter where I work. Duh, perhaps I should wait till I go back to work next week and ask him. But in any case I was planning on using wax and not poly.
Am I remembering correctly? The pro-ject 2 is the one that has a base of clear acrillic about an inch thick? Absolutely awesome looking thing if it's the one that I'm thinking of.
Am I remembering correctly? The pro-ject 2 is the one that has a base of clear acrillic about an inch thick? Absolutely awesome looking thing if it's the one that I'm thinking of.
DaWoofer
Super Member
Didn't realize it had a veneered cabinet as my WA set was the wrapped vinyl. I new the 7 with the EV horns and different cabinet was real veneered but also a wider vabinet. Your cabinet looks like my WA. Anyhow, keep up the quality work.
My recap I messed up by using 12 ga. Wire. Way to thick and hard to work with factory standoffs and solder joints. I really wanted T350 put in mine but couldn't come up with them. They sound great without them anyway.
Roll on!
My recap I messed up by using 12 ga. Wire. Way to thick and hard to work with factory standoffs and solder joints. I really wanted T350 put in mine but couldn't come up with them. They sound great without them anyway.
Roll on!
Yes, the cabs have oak veneer, about 1/16" thick. I sanded them today. I decided to skip 320 grit and just used 400. Tried to use a light touch, straight line in one direction first until I had gone over an entire side, then walked to the other end and did the reverse. No back and forth sanding. After that I vacuumed with a brush and trusted my fingertips to tell me where to work it again.
All of the pencil marks and light scratches are gone now, and I'm reasonably happy with the results. When I look closely I can see some dents, a few small chips, but both cabinets look pretty good with one exception. The top of one has some pretty deep scratches from the transport over here to Munich. I've cleaned them up as best as I can without trying to go too deep. I will never be able to get them out by sanding, and am thinking that trying to fill them will look just as bad. Mabye some day I'll attempt to do what Sr. Byrd did with his 7s (a very impressive bit of work that) but not now. Monday I'll be back at work and will bring the oil I bought and ask the carpenter what he thinks about that and a good wax to use.
Other than that I'm at a stop and make decisions point. When Paul (Loudspeaker Store) told me about his new 6.5" it sounded interesting but shipping and customs made me pause. Since then I found out that my daughters are flying over to the Puget Sound in January and that changes my thinking a lot. So I'll be sending a post to my brother-in-law and see if he will drive up to Kent and buy them for me. My girls have already agreed to carry them back. Unless something goes wrong that's my plan for the midranges, but I'll have to use my crap Goldwoods till late January. Which brings me to the next thing.
I had planned to do a cheap recap for now and a major crossover upgrade (much) later. But dropping my crossover parts down to a more reasonable price/quality point it looks like I can do a pair of new crossovers for around €300 complete. Which means that it should be possible to do that by the end of the year. Making spending any money on my existing crossovers a waste. So at this point my plan is to pull the 2 4ohm padding resistors on the midranges, replace them with a piece of wire (the GW-6024's only have an SPL of around 89) and re-assemble everything as is once my 12"ers are back. And exercise a bit of patience.
I'm still unsure what the W1058P 10"er that I have actually ARE, but will deal with that later.
Cheers,
James
All of the pencil marks and light scratches are gone now, and I'm reasonably happy with the results. When I look closely I can see some dents, a few small chips, but both cabinets look pretty good with one exception. The top of one has some pretty deep scratches from the transport over here to Munich. I've cleaned them up as best as I can without trying to go too deep. I will never be able to get them out by sanding, and am thinking that trying to fill them will look just as bad. Mabye some day I'll attempt to do what Sr. Byrd did with his 7s (a very impressive bit of work that) but not now. Monday I'll be back at work and will bring the oil I bought and ask the carpenter what he thinks about that and a good wax to use.
Other than that I'm at a stop and make decisions point. When Paul (Loudspeaker Store) told me about his new 6.5" it sounded interesting but shipping and customs made me pause. Since then I found out that my daughters are flying over to the Puget Sound in January and that changes my thinking a lot. So I'll be sending a post to my brother-in-law and see if he will drive up to Kent and buy them for me. My girls have already agreed to carry them back. Unless something goes wrong that's my plan for the midranges, but I'll have to use my crap Goldwoods till late January. Which brings me to the next thing.
I had planned to do a cheap recap for now and a major crossover upgrade (much) later. But dropping my crossover parts down to a more reasonable price/quality point it looks like I can do a pair of new crossovers for around €300 complete. Which means that it should be possible to do that by the end of the year. Making spending any money on my existing crossovers a waste. So at this point my plan is to pull the 2 4ohm padding resistors on the midranges, replace them with a piece of wire (the GW-6024's only have an SPL of around 89) and re-assemble everything as is once my 12"ers are back. And exercise a bit of patience.
I'm still unsure what the W1058P 10"er that I have actually ARE, but will deal with that later.
Cheers,
James
I just realized that I made a mistake with the measurements that I posted for the front baffle panel. The measurements that I wrote on my drawing give the width of the entire cabinet. But the baffle panel is of course set into/onto a lip routed from the cabinet walls/roof/floor. The actual width and height of the baffle itself is approx. 388 x 958mm or 15 5/16" x 37 13/16".
James
James
Hi scorewin,
So, based on what you said I asked the carpenter where I work about the OSMO wax/oil today and he said that you were right, it's good stuff. He also said that I probably should lightly re-sand with a courser sandpaper, max 320 or better 240. And he has a 1/4 liter or so of the osmo left over that he will give me, bringing it tomorrow. Recommended using a brush, letting it set for 5+ minutes and wiping the excess away with a rag, letting it set for a day, lightly sanding, and then giving a second coat. Said that it should give a high gloss finish. Normally costs about €20 for 3/4 liter.
I'm still waiting for my W1208R's to return home.
Cheers,
James
So, based on what you said I asked the carpenter where I work about the OSMO wax/oil today and he said that you were right, it's good stuff. He also said that I probably should lightly re-sand with a courser sandpaper, max 320 or better 240. And he has a 1/4 liter or so of the osmo left over that he will give me, bringing it tomorrow. Recommended using a brush, letting it set for 5+ minutes and wiping the excess away with a rag, letting it set for a day, lightly sanding, and then giving a second coat. Said that it should give a high gloss finish. Normally costs about €20 for 3/4 liter.
I'm still waiting for my W1208R's to return home.
Cheers,
James
A bit off topic, but I saw this Gramophone at Technikmuseum Speyer and felt the need to share a pic. I couldn't see any info about it, but the cone looked to be about 24"/610mm or more. Beautiful lacquered wood.
Cheers
Cheers
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Well, I picked up my W1208's from the post office today. The news is good and bad. The first is that Jens at JH-elektronic did a very nice clean job. It's just that he didn't do what I wanted.
I asked for 1) buytl rubber surrounds, 2) new dust covers to replace the dented ones that were falling off, and 3) that he sell me a new gasket. He assured me that he could do all of that. I sent him the woofers very carefully packed in a wood frame and securely screwed in place and he told me that he would send an email when they arrived.
A week later I called him to find out if he had gotten them, he told me that they were almost finished. OK. Today I find that 1) I now have foam surrounds. 2) My old domes/dust covers have been straightened out and reinstalled. 3) No gaskets.
So. He did a Very nice clean job of replacing the surrounds but then spoiled it by using foam. He did a Very nice clean job of reinstalling the domes but then spoiled it by using my old ones. He did a Very nice job of cleaning the entire speaker but then spoiled it by taping them together with tape that has left sticky residue on the frames that I'll have to clean off, broke my packing frame into pieces that I found in the bottom of the box, rolled the frames in plastic foil and filled the box with plastic peanuts.
I'm working real hard at staying calm. I'm thinking that it might be the right time for a stiff drink. I'm almost sure of it.
The carpenter forgot to bring the OSMO oil/wax but assures me that he'll remember by the weekend.
Other than that today I took a long thin flexable putty knife and carefully removed the tweeter coils from the crossover board, turned them on their side 90° to the midrange coil and re-glued them in an effort to reduce crosstalk in the coils. I don't know how much it will help but can't see that it will hurt any.
I asked for 1) buytl rubber surrounds, 2) new dust covers to replace the dented ones that were falling off, and 3) that he sell me a new gasket. He assured me that he could do all of that. I sent him the woofers very carefully packed in a wood frame and securely screwed in place and he told me that he would send an email when they arrived.
A week later I called him to find out if he had gotten them, he told me that they were almost finished. OK. Today I find that 1) I now have foam surrounds. 2) My old domes/dust covers have been straightened out and reinstalled. 3) No gaskets.
So. He did a Very nice clean job of replacing the surrounds but then spoiled it by using foam. He did a Very nice clean job of reinstalling the domes but then spoiled it by using my old ones. He did a Very nice job of cleaning the entire speaker but then spoiled it by taping them together with tape that has left sticky residue on the frames that I'll have to clean off, broke my packing frame into pieces that I found in the bottom of the box, rolled the frames in plastic foil and filled the box with plastic peanuts.
I'm working real hard at staying calm. I'm thinking that it might be the right time for a stiff drink. I'm almost sure of it.
The carpenter forgot to bring the OSMO oil/wax but assures me that he'll remember by the weekend.
Other than that today I took a long thin flexable putty knife and carefully removed the tweeter coils from the crossover board, turned them on their side 90° to the midrange coil and re-glued them in an effort to reduce crosstalk in the coils. I don't know how much it will help but can't see that it will hurt any.
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c-atle-79bay
Super Member
Glad that will work with the osmo. If you read the literature on it, they state it should repel water for a couple hours at least, the stuff sets up and creates a nice hard finish, cats have not scratched the floor yet and this is on fir.
DaWoofer
Super Member
Thats too bad. Well, maybe you can explain to him your feeling and let him know why you are considering using some other shop in the future. I would personally use a different shop in the future. Make sure you write in an email what you want besides the telephone as it lists for the repairman what is expected.
Good luck with the remaining tasks.
Good luck with the remaining tasks.
Hi Score...C-atle... New handle? Thanks again for the info. If my college doesn't come through I'll just go to the hardware store and buy some. One way or the other...
Hi D.W. - I'm calm now. Realisticly, these boxes haven't sounded as they should for more than 15 years. Back in the begining my ears and brain told me "these things sound great". They got worse, my ears and little brain told me so. Do I remember now exactly how they really sounded back then, when I still ran them with a Yamaha C-50+M50 amp and Pioneer PL-L1000A TT? Truthfully? Heck no.
As I bring them back to life I'll have to trust those same ears and brain to tell me if/when they are getting better. But the fact is that they are no longer the same speakers they were, they (hopefully) will be as good or better, but I'll only be able to say "I like them, they sound great again". But I'll never really know if they are exactly the same and it won't really matter. They just have to sound great again NOW.
If the woofer sounds slightly different because it might have slightly different compliance because of a surround switch will I know the diff? Truthfully? No. My beef with the surrounds is mainly because foam has a shorter lifespan. And with the domes because of concern over any possible buzz from the former dents.
I will be sending him my thoughts by emale, and back at the start I sent him an email specifying exactly what I wanted. He assured me by mail that he had the parts I wanted on hand and could do the job. My telephone conversation only had to do with wanting to know if the woofers had arrived. I explained that I wasn't bugging him about speed, that I had waited a long time to do this and a week or 2 more had no meaning at this point. Just do a good job, I would be happy to pay the price that he had estimated.
He really only needed to send an email asking if I was ok with the substitutions he had in mind and we could have worked it out.
Well too late now. I'm thinking that sending them back and demanding another change of surrounds probably wouldn't improve the health of my woofers. And 2 things have to be said. He only charged for the work and parts that were actually used, less than his estimate. He did do a clean accurate looking job. He did not cheat me. He just did something other than what we agreed on. Live and learn. I will keep on working till these speakers sound great again.
James
Hi D.W. - I'm calm now. Realisticly, these boxes haven't sounded as they should for more than 15 years. Back in the begining my ears and brain told me "these things sound great". They got worse, my ears and little brain told me so. Do I remember now exactly how they really sounded back then, when I still ran them with a Yamaha C-50+M50 amp and Pioneer PL-L1000A TT? Truthfully? Heck no.
As I bring them back to life I'll have to trust those same ears and brain to tell me if/when they are getting better. But the fact is that they are no longer the same speakers they were, they (hopefully) will be as good or better, but I'll only be able to say "I like them, they sound great again". But I'll never really know if they are exactly the same and it won't really matter. They just have to sound great again NOW.
If the woofer sounds slightly different because it might have slightly different compliance because of a surround switch will I know the diff? Truthfully? No. My beef with the surrounds is mainly because foam has a shorter lifespan. And with the domes because of concern over any possible buzz from the former dents.
I will be sending him my thoughts by emale, and back at the start I sent him an email specifying exactly what I wanted. He assured me by mail that he had the parts I wanted on hand and could do the job. My telephone conversation only had to do with wanting to know if the woofers had arrived. I explained that I wasn't bugging him about speed, that I had waited a long time to do this and a week or 2 more had no meaning at this point. Just do a good job, I would be happy to pay the price that he had estimated.
He really only needed to send an email asking if I was ok with the substitutions he had in mind and we could have worked it out.
Well too late now. I'm thinking that sending them back and demanding another change of surrounds probably wouldn't improve the health of my woofers. And 2 things have to be said. He only charged for the work and parts that were actually used, less than his estimate. He did do a clean accurate looking job. He did not cheat me. He just did something other than what we agreed on. Live and learn. I will keep on working till these speakers sound great again.
James