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Speakers with accurate timbres?

Having had those C51s in a University box....

I have to agree that they(C-51s) are certainly realistic. Those JBL bullet tweeters will exceed 15000 cps and the D130s will surely get down there. Especially nice on jazz and Classical where timbre and detail will present a very realistic reproduction.. I especially liked standing bass notes strummed by Ray Brown where you can actually hear his fingers slipping over the strings. Sadly sold those wanting more space at the time.:tears: After over 2 dozen speakers auditioned by me over a decade ended up with a pair of Celestion Ditton 66s which again remind me of the older set up.:thmbsp:
 
I have a pair of Fostex 4" drivers, playing without a crossover of any kind. At times, the small drivers reproduce certain instruments very accurately. I believe it is the construction of the driver, a combination of the lightweight cone and large magnet, and the perception of the listener, hearing those tones that are reproduced more accurately than past experience with different speakers. It is one of those,"what did I just hear" moments.
 
See Toole, Sound Reproduction - Loudspeakers and Rooms.

Index entries for "Timbre":

acoustical interference effects on, 142-143
association with direction, 38
audibility of resonances, 445-450
definition of, 141
description of, 36
information in onset transients, 159-160
reflections effect on, 69, 141-160
repetition effects on, 143
resonances have a dominant effect on, 155
summary of, 261-263
 
I have a pair of Fostex 4" drivers, playing without a crossover of any kind. At times, the small drivers reproduce certain instruments very accurately. I believe it is the construction of the driver, a combination of the lightweight cone and large magnet, and the perception of the listener, hearing those tones that are reproduced more accurately than past experience with different speakers. It is one of those,"what did I just hear" moments.

My "Hi-Tweek BlackBox Nearfield Monitors" use highly modified Radio Shack 40-1197s and do much of what you describe.
:banana:

I really think, as several have already stated, that the Harbeths are the best all-rounders. I've never heard one yet that wasn't outstanding and if I ever buy speakers, those would be the ones that I'd want. There are a lot of (much) more expensive and well known speakers out there that don't even come close to the Harbeths.

Best Regards,
TerryO
 
I'd say Apogee Scintilla's are the most non-sounding loudspeakers I've heard. There are two major drawbacks IMHO: they are almost impossible to drive and since they're so neutral, you will hear everything in the recording, including things you don't wanna hear.
 
I think the timbre is depending on the match in the line from source to speaker and room.
Some certain speaker can have a great timbre and describing each instrument perfectly in one room and sound mushy and disguised in another room or in another gear line up.

But of course some speakers potentially have a better chance being honest to the material played.

The two speakers I have heard doing it all best are Wilson Maxx2 and Magnepan 20.1.
And sure they need matching as well.

"dolph"
 
This is an item to discuss speakers that are accurate to the timbre of musical instruments. My JBL C51 Apollos are truly startlingly realistic in the mid range, a piano sounds like a piano and a cello sounds like a cello. They don't do everything well, they roll off at the bottom around 50 hz and at the top around 15,000 and I thick they are exaggerated in the upper bass/lower mid range, but for the timbre of certain acoustic instruments they are great.


That's exactly the way I would describe my current speakers (Wharfedale W60E's - From around '71-'73 - Similar in size, shape, and price to a Large Advent or AR-3a, - 3-way acoustic-suspension design - front-loaded drivers - acoustically-isolated mid-woofer (The tweeter is isolated as well, I believe) - 12.5" woofer [cone - paper-pulp, I think - reversed hard-rubber surrounds], 5" mid-woofer [paper-pulp, I guess - with a kind of gauze material used for the surrounds], dome tweeter [about an inch - made from that purple material that Wharfedale used], attenuators on the back of the cabs for adjusting mid-woofer and tweeter levels (extremely-useful), power-handling is 50w RMS (per-speaker).

I've been using these speakers for the last 11 months or so, and I'm really digging them. Like you said, a piano is a piano, a sax sounds like a sax (and sounds like THAT sax in the recording would have sounded if you were there in the studio listening to them record it). They're especially-good with stringed instruments like cellos and violas. And drums are always punchy and lively with plenty of bass and yet still accurate-sounding. And they're one of the best I've heard with the human voice - Outstanding vocal reproduction. The overall sound is a warm, smooth, "east-coast" sort of sound. And I listen with them pretty-close - maybe 6-7 feet (They're actually at their best when they're placed in corners), so I'm not getting the most out of them at the moment. Their strength is in their midwoofers. I don't know how this one differs from earlier Wharfedale designs, but it's a fantastic-sounding mid-woofer. The tweeter is great. It's lively, but not overly-pristine - and certainly not as rolled-off as the mid '60's Wharfedale tweeters. The woofer does it's job well. I've heard more-accurate woofers, but these produce tight, smooth bass that has a bounce to it (and I'm not talking about a "Thrusters" bounce) that works extremely-well for '60's and '70's classic rock and pop, not to mention jazz, funk, and fusion (I should mention that the woofer cones are pretty-stiff and they really don't move much, even under higher-volume conditions with bass-heavy music). These speakers are very-versatile and with the right amp or receiver can handle modern rock and even a little rap (I listen to quite a bit of old-school 80's and early-mid '90's rap). They perform very-well with classical and 50's and 60's jazz, especially if you give it some volume. I would call it a warmly-accurate sound. And I've gotten the best response out of them with low to mid-powered early '70's SS receivers (although you should get great results with a 25w-50w tube amp or receiver). These speakers LOVE a warm and lively-sounding power source (amp OR receiver). They totally come alive.

The cabinets are extremely-well-made. Thick walnut veneers, solid-wood trim, and built like bomb shelters. Great cabs for Econowaving too. Even though I'm pretty-sure these are not sand-filled like the earlier models, they don't resonate much at all - which is great for my situation because my apartment isn't exactly acoustically-isolated from the people upstairs, and plus the walls can rattle a lot with other speakers - I don't have that problem with these.

One problem I've encountered since I got these is that they reveal any flaws that a recording might have, whether it's a bad digital transfer, or some surface noise on a record, or a flaw in the recording itself - if something's wrong, these speakers will let you know about it (Not a half-hour ago, I had started listening to a "lossless" digital file of the DCC CD version of "Jim Croce - 24-Karat Gold In A Bottle" and there's a very-light digital distortion over the entire rip - Drag, dude - *EDIT* - Turns out that the distortion I was hearing was due to the Rotel receiver I was using at the time - It needed a cleaning - The Jim Croce recording is fine, and that's a good thing because I really dig that one).

I've read where a few snobbos here and there have called this a "mid-fi" speaker, but I'm getting some excellent sound from mine right now, and for the prices these are going for these days, these are damn-fine speakers (and beautiful-looking as well). These are keepers (Picture is not of mine - I can't upload digital pictures right now so I got this picture off da' Bay)

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=179571&stc=1&d=1258299036
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=179572&stc=1&d=1258299400
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=179573&stc=1&d=1258299705

The Acoustic Research AR3a is another speaker that matches the description you gave in the first post. They're a 3-way acoustic-suspension design using one 12" woofer (I think it's actually 11" though) and a dome-style midrange and high-end drivers).

And someone recently-mentioned about Splendor speakers (I think that's the name). They're supposed to fit that bill perfectly.

Also, Bozaks are known to be timbrally-accurate. And the older Wharfedales are also good for that. These kinds of speakers don't have the same kind of so-called "accurate" sound that modern speakers have (and not everybody likes the rolled-off highs), but they reproduce voices and instruments VERY-well, and were designed to reproduce things like classical music as you would hear it in a concert hall - The rolled-off highs being part of the design).
 

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My Acoustats regularly make me think the phone is ringing or there is a dog in my back yard. They do this with the sound from TV. They make female vocalists sound like they are right in front of me.

They do better on the LIAR test than just about anything else I've ever heard. LIAR = Listening In Another Room.

The Pizza delivery guy asked me, "Who do you have jammin' in there?" When I told him it was my stereo, he said, "C'mon, tell me, who you got jammin' in there?" I had to invite him in to look around before he was convinced there were no musicians here. A neighbor across the street asked me when I bought a piano. Comments like those have convinced me I made a good choice when I settled on my ESL's.
 
I like to work with a pair of speakers and try it in different settings and systems before I make my mind up. The speakers that I like are usually a bit unique and a result of designers trying things differently.

Right now all the speakers I use go about things in a different way and all had different goals in the mind of the designer. I also use them with a different priority in mind. Everyone likes to go on and on about the room and it's importants but I find certain speakers match certain rooms well and I spend time looking for those combinations and building on them.

marc mc
 
Right now I have some B&W 704s for music and a Wardale HT set for theater but I realy liked the Vandys for accurate music reproduction but alas I have young ones and cats:nono: Someday-yes the Vandys will be mine:music:
 
Zilch's #24 was a very useful post for what I am looking for here, for I am curious more about general principles that could be used to design a speaker with an accurate timbre rather than just a laundry list of brands fanboy style. So my next question would be which designs maximize the parameters Zilch listed?
 
My Acoustats regularly make me think the phone is ringing or there is a dog in my back yard. They do this with the sound from TV. They make female vocalists sound like they are right in front of me.

They do better on the LIAR test than just about anything else I've ever heard. LIAR = Listening In Another Room.

The Pizza delivery guy asked me, "Who do you have jammin' in there?" When I told him it was my stereo, he said, "C'mon, tell me, who you got jammin' in there?" I had to invite him in to look around before he was convinced there were no musicians here. A neighbor across the street asked me when I bought a piano. Comments like those have convinced me I made a good choice when I settled on my ESL's.

I love that. That's the sign of a great speaker. Old Bozaks do that extremely-well - better than most. I've read so much literature about the AR3a's and also those theater speakers they make (LST's, I think?) and their ability to reproduce the human voice and various orchestral instruments.

Right now I'm listening to Phish's "Rift" CD (one of the most-well-recorded albums I've truly ever heard), and the reproduction of acoustic guitars and pianos (pretty-much everything) is scary-good. But even the drums and bass are tight and punchy. It's an incredibly-clean, clear, and fully-balanced recording, but it's also warm, and my speakers just eat that up. They love recordings with great midrange. Yesterday I was watching the DVD of "The Shining", and the soundtrack is awesome. Creepy, chanting voices (lots of 'em), orchestras, all kinds of neat percussion, and a whole lot of dynamic shifts and transients (and LOTS of natural reverb and echo brought on by the acoustics of the room), and with my receiver turned up nice and loud, it can scare people out of their seat. That soundtrack is actually very-well-recorded. I have 2 separate digital copies that I listen to quite a bit by themselves (There's a few boots online - I know there's one that's uses the DVD audio, and there might be one that's a vinyl rip - There never was a legitimate CD release). I really want to find the original LP.
 
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My Acoustats regularly make me think the phone is ringing or there is a dog in my back yard. They do this with the sound from TV.

I've heard many speakers that make 'me' think there is a dog in my back yard...however... I've had far fewer speakers that actually fool my DOGS into thinking there is a dog in the back yard.

Truth be told... I now cringe with anything having dogs barking in it because my dogs go absolutely ballistic
 
UREI 809s or 813s. Scary accurate for me. 813s can get louder before compressing than the 809s.

Cheers,

David
 
I've heard many speakers that make 'me' think there is a dog in my back yard...however... I've had far fewer speakers that actually fool my DOGS into thinking there is a dog in the back yard.

Truth be told... I now cringe with anything having dogs barking in it because my dogs go absolutely ballistic

My cat starts looking around when a barking dog plays through mine, but he doesn't seem to get fooled by reproduced meows. He's also had a good 10 months with these things, and I think he's getting used to them. He never seems to mind the volume - He seems to really like the music. Maybe he's deaf ("So that's why he never comes when I call him").

Hey, what about those Minimus 7's? I know they're lush and warm-sounding, but would they be considered "accurate"?
 
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Hey, what about those Minimus 7's? I know they're lush and warm-sounding, but would they be considered "accurate"?

No.

I have two pairs; one modded and one stock, neither one would I describe as accurate. If they were, then I wouldn't have been lusting after the Harbeth speakers, which are.

Best Regards,
TerryO
 
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