Speakers with accurate timbres?
- Thread starter barredowl
- Start date
Gang-Twanger
Resident Wharfedaliophool
I should have been a bit more-specific. I meant to say "as a mid-hi section of a top-and bottom, 2-speaker-per-side setup", like with the Minimus 7's handling the mids and highs and sitting on top of another cabinet which would handle the bottom-end. Could a setup like that give accuracy as well as warmth on a budget? (Sorry to be sidetracking )
Gang-Twanger
Resident Wharfedaliophool
How about Dynaco A25's? I've heard people mention those in reference to timbral accuracy (Well, they didn't use those words, but they remarked about the speaker's ability to reproduce voices and instruments very-well - the same way I've heard people talk about Bozaks).
I think the Dynaco's look better with the grills off though.
I think the Dynaco's look better with the grills off though.
Mysteryed
The Antique
I recalled that there was a speaker that was specifically designed to use the cabinet resonance to "accurately" portray musical instruments by using the characteristics of an instrument body. Onkyo and Takamine joined forces to produce the Onkyo D-TK10. This is an interesting read : http://www.onkyousa.com/detail_showstory.cfm?class=Speaker&m=D-TK10&p=i
I've never heard them, but would be interested in giving them a listen.
I've never heard them, but would be interested in giving them a listen.
Gang-Twanger
Resident Wharfedaliophool
I love some of the terms audio companies use to describe equipment. What makes a musical instrument "accomplished"? Does it practice every day?
The speakers do look interesting, but I can't help think that a large part of this is just marketing mumbo-jumbo. Hopefully the outer mahogany layer is not just a veneer. Mahogany is a great wood for instruments - When used for building solidbody electric guitars, it has a warm tone with accentuated low-midrange and great sustain. Honduran mahogany is my favorite wood for guitars (That's what they used on Gibson Les Pauls prior to the early '70's - For the Les Paul Standards, they would combine a solid mahogany body with a maple top, and this has since become one of the most-common soldbody guitar designs and has been used by many, many guitar makers).
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Dunlavy's
The story is that John Dunlavy would have musicians play in his anechoic chamber, and he would try to match the timbre of the instruments with his speakers. I've read that he used flute, violin and voice.
He handpicked drivers and matched them by hand to 0.1 dB. That, and first order crossovers, which allow for both time and phase alignment insured that the harmonics were matched in all respects to the original note.
Interesting that he never ended up with the most expensive drivers of the day - he just used whatever drivers measured tightly when paired.
The downside of the gradual slope in the first order crossovers is that there is quite a small sweet spot. But when you are in it, the timbre's are very very good.
The story is that John Dunlavy would have musicians play in his anechoic chamber, and he would try to match the timbre of the instruments with his speakers. I've read that he used flute, violin and voice.
He handpicked drivers and matched them by hand to 0.1 dB. That, and first order crossovers, which allow for both time and phase alignment insured that the harmonics were matched in all respects to the original note.
Interesting that he never ended up with the most expensive drivers of the day - he just used whatever drivers measured tightly when paired.
The downside of the gradual slope in the first order crossovers is that there is quite a small sweet spot. But when you are in it, the timbre's are very very good.
I didn't find this to be the case with mine. I thought they colored the sound in a pleasant way, sounding 'warm' and relaxed, but that's not really accurate timbre. I really like them, though. I use them with vintage Fisher tube components and they're just simply enjoyable to listen to. I never found myself thinking that instruments sounded remarkably lifelike with them, at least in comparison to more modern speakers that I have around.
legalalien
Well-Known Member
To me the speakers with the most natural sounding "timbre" have been Magnepan's, on acoustic music I have simply been blown away by the pure and natural sounds that flow from these big panels. Naturally (pun intended) the higher you go up in the line the fuller and weightier they will sound but to me their drawbacks have always been dynamics and impact. Now mind you they are so good with what they do well that most people just don't care about their limitations and I'm sure the highest price models probably overcome these limitations but I don't have the spare 10k to own em. However if timbre is what you're after you must try to audition some Maggie's but be prepared for music to be portrayed like nothing you have ever heard.
I think Maggies, being single ended, are adding distortion that people interpret as "big tone". Kind'a like an audiophile approved Bose. Really.
And I owned them for several years. The Maggies, not the Bose.
And I owned them for several years. The Maggies, not the Bose.
JoeESP9
ESL's & tubes since 83
IMO Tom Brennan is right. I've owned several different models in the Maggy line over the years so I have considerable experience with them. When I heard ESL's I immediately switched to them. They have almost none of that "big tone".
I'm surprised Eminent Technology LFT8's and 6's aren't more popular. They are planar magnetic transducers like Maggy's but are not single ended. They have magnets on both sides of the diaphragms. I like them better than all Maggy's except the 3.6R's and 20's.
IMO The main selling point of the bigger Maggy's is the ribbon tweeter which does away with most of the "big tone".
I'm surprised Eminent Technology LFT8's and 6's aren't more popular. They are planar magnetic transducers like Maggy's but are not single ended. They have magnets on both sides of the diaphragms. I like them better than all Maggy's except the 3.6R's and 20's.
IMO The main selling point of the bigger Maggy's is the ribbon tweeter which does away with most of the "big tone".
There are several factors of loudspeaker design which I believe are important.
1.) Inert, well braced cabinet
2.) Baffles designed to minimize early reflections
3.) Phase coherence
4.) Time alignment of the drivers
5.) Flat frequency response
6.) Linearity in the drivers operating range (for cone drivers, pure piston performance)
7.) Polarity of drivers (all drivers wired with the same polarity)
Designers like Vandersteen and Thiel come to mind.
This is not to say that other speaker designs cannot achieve accuracy as well.
1.) Inert, well braced cabinet
2.) Baffles designed to minimize early reflections
3.) Phase coherence
4.) Time alignment of the drivers
5.) Flat frequency response
6.) Linearity in the drivers operating range (for cone drivers, pure piston performance)
7.) Polarity of drivers (all drivers wired with the same polarity)
Designers like Vandersteen and Thiel come to mind.
This is not to say that other speaker designs cannot achieve accuracy as well.
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I think Maggies, being single ended, are adding distortion that people interpret as "big tone". Kind'a like an audiophile approved Bose. Really.
And I owned them for several years. The Maggies, not the Bose.
Single ended??
I know they are magnestatic and I know they are dipols.
But could you please explain the single ended thing?
I thought "single ended" meant running cabling without nulling.
Non single ended have cold, warm and null.
"dolph"
The driving magnets (motor) are only on one side of the diaphragm, this means the drive is enequal as the diaphragm moves towards and away from the magnets, this causes distortion.
As Joe explained the Eminent Technology planar magnetics use a sandwich with a motor on either side of the diaphragm, this makes for equal drive force in both directions and lower distortion.
As well as big tone I also detect quite a bit of "hash" and earwire" in the treble from Maggie planar magnetics.
Thank you for your explanation.
But is it really called "Single ended" as with "unbalanced" amplifiers?
It is same term for two very different functional describtions.
"dolph"
Yes Nik, single ended is the engineering term for an electrostat or planar magnetic driven from one side.
