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Stacked speakers, multiple amps question

sberger

sberger

Hard Core Geezer
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I've been stacking my AR3's with my 3a's, and really enjoy the results. I do so by putting a 3a on top of a 3 for both the left and right channel. I've been powering them with a McIntosh 4100 receiver, which can accommodate up to 3 pairs of speaker run simultaneously, and have had no problems driving this rather difficult load with it. But today i decided to experiment and added my Crown XLS1000 amp into the mix, figuring it would take some of the stress off the Mac. I'm using the Crown to drive the 3's, and the Mac the 3a's. So each amp is driving part of each channel.

My question: Is there any reason why it would be better theoretically to have the amps drive a channel as opposed to specific speakers? I suppose I could experiment, but wanted to see if there's any fundamental reason I should change how I have it.
 
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I'd think in this case using each amp to drive its own left and right speaker would be the way to go, not each amp driving both speakers/a channel on one side.
 
Thanks.

So what I've been doing is what you would suggest if I understand you correctly?

Before I read your comment, I decided to try the opposite. One amp drives the left channel, one the right. Still sounds good, but now easier to balance the 2 channels.

I can't see any reason, because the speakers are the same 4 ohms, that using one amp to drive 2 different speakers would be a problem. Doesn't sound like it is, but I'm open to additional comments/thoughts on the matter.
 
There is no problem with an amp driving two different speakers, but I would not want the different characteristics of each amp stuck firmly left or right in my system.

I would want the characteristics of each amp blended across the soundstage, as it normally is.

If it was two amps of the same then I'd say flip a coin.
 
Understand. But it makes sense to blend it all, which is why I set it up like that in the beginning. It's why I set up a 3/3a stack, instead of 3's on one side, 3a's on the other. Sound is similar each way, and certainly I find the sound better then when one amp is doing it alone.
 
I'm doing the same thing only with small monitors & a large speaker a 3 way I like it they have a good sound stage together the small 2 ways are 6 ohm and the large one is 8 ohm is that hard on the amp or the speakers Iam pushing 40 watts out of aTeac amp
 
musichal said:
Back on topic, it would not have even occurred to me to connect one amp one side and a different amp to the other side. I think you got it right the first time.
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Yeah I agree. I was really just thinking of making it easier to balance the outputs, but considering that I'm running two different(albeit similar) speakers on each side, blending everything as whoaru99 pointed out is the more consistent way to go. Sounds pretty awesome, too. I'm assuming that simply allowing the amps to drive 2, instead of 4 speakers, has a positive effect on the quality of the output, not to mention each speaker is getting more power through them. A good thing for the power hungry guys.
 
The two sets of ARs are most likely not the same sensitivity; so it would be more sensible to have them amped by the pair, not by the side, so that you could make adjustment for the difference in sensitivity. You can also adjust each for tone if need be. In my house, I have two setups in that fashion. A SX-1250/Sansui Model Eight with DCM TF600s/Klipsch Quartets in the living room and a Sansui Model 8/Sansui AU-D9 with DCM TF400s/JBL L35 Decades in the bedroom. These systems please me a lot and I have great control over the mixture.
 
KingBubba said:
The two sets of ARs are most likely not the same sensitivity; so it would be more sensible to have them amped by the pair, not by the side, so that you could make adjustment for the difference in sensitivity. You can also adjust each for tone if need be. In my house, I have two setups in that fashion. A SX-1250/Sansui Model Eight with DCM TF600s/Klipsch Quartets in the living room and a Sansui Model 8/Sansui AU-D9 with DCM TF400s/JBL L35 Decades in the bedroom. These systems please me a lot and I have great control over the mixture.
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Agree on the sensitivity, although I'm guessing they are very close.
 
whoaru99 said:
There is no problem with an amp driving two different speakers, but I would not want the different characteristics of each amp stuck firmly left or right in my system.

I would want the characteristics of each amp blended across the soundstage, as it normally is.

If it was two amps of the same then I'd say flip a coin.
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Above is the correct answer. Two different amplifiers each on different channels is not at all an ideal configuration for the reasons stated.

I have had my system set up like this for many years, but I use identical Bryston power amps. It make for just a huge, dimensional image.
 
Just confirming that I'm doing this right. I'm using y-connectors for each amp, so the Adcom's 2 outputs going into one preamp input, and the Mac's 2 outputs are going into the other input. Then I have the Adcom connected to the L and R AR 3's, and the Mac to the L and R 3'as. Each stack has one 3, and one 3a. Does that all sound correct?

I ask because with this setup it's more difficult, seemingly, to get proper stereo separation/balance, as opposed to just having one amp handling the left channel, and one the right. I have separate output gain pots on the preamp, along with master gain, but of course these just increase the gain on each speaker, without being able to control the balance. Which is why I ask if I'm doing it right. In my set up, having each amp drive a separate channel seems to work out a lot better for proper separation/balance. Maybe the preamp has a lot to do with it.
 
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Well here's why I was confused, and why it was difficult for me to get control for each channel. I was combining one amp, which was driving both a left and right channel speaker, into both inputs on a y cord, then putting that male end into one channel output on the pre, and the same with the other amp. So when I would go to increase one channel on the pre, it was just changing the output of the speaker, both left and right, that the specific amp was connected too. WRONG SET UP.
So when I moved in a different amp yesterday figured out while having each amp drive a speaker on each side, I neeed to have one input on each amp into an output per side on the pre, rather then one amp per pre out. Now when I adjust channel gain on the pre it adjusts each speaker on that side only. I don't know why this was so confusing to me, other then I didn't think it was ok to combine a half of each amps signal into the same pre out. But I found out it was, at least with the gear I'm using. I suppose I could've also just had one amp drive a different speaker on each side to get the same result.
 
sberger said:
Well here's why I was confused, and why it was difficult for me to get control for each channel. I was combining one amp, which was driving both a left and right channel speaker, into both inputs on a y cord, then putting that male end into one channel output on the pre, and the same with the other amp. So when I would go to increase one channel on the pre, it was just changing the output of the speaker, both left and right, that the specific amp was connected too. WRONG SET UP.
So when I moved in a different amp yesterday figured out while having each amp drive a speaker on each side, I neeed to have one input on each amp into an output per side on the pre, rather then one amp per pre out. Now when I adjust channel gain on the pre it adjusts each speaker on that side only. I don't know why this was so confusing to me, other then I didn't think it was ok to combine a half of each amps signal into the same pre out. But I found out it was, at least with the gear I'm using. I suppose I could've also just had one amp drive a different speaker on each side to get the same result.
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Horizontal amplification is the best method in your setup - and of course one the amplifiers must have gain controls to maintain the same output level relative output between the two pairs of speakers.
 
62caddy said:
Horizontal amplification is the best method in your setup - and of course one the amplifiers must have gain controls to maintain the same output level relative output between the two pairs of speakers.
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What.am I doing? From a bit of research sounds maybe like vertical?

The Crown has gain controls.

Because I'm stacking 2 pairs of similar 4 ohm speakers I figured it's simply easier on each amp to only have them drive 4 ohm loads, rather then something lower. It sounds very good, and it's simple. But should I be handling this differently?
 
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sberger said:
What.am I doing? From a bit of research sounds maybe like vertical?

The Crown has gain controls.

Because I'm stacking 2 pairs of similar 4 ohm speakers I figured it's simply easier on each amp to only have them drive 4 ohm loads, rather then something lower. It sounds very good, and it's simple. But should I be handling this differently?
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Horizontal - each amp powers 1 Left and 1 Right speaker.

You're doing it right.
 
sberger said:
My question: Is there any reason why it would be better theoretically to have the amps drive a channel as opposed to specific speakers? I suppose I could experiment, but wanted to see if there's any fundamental reason I should change how I have it.
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If you were bi-amping using a single speaker or a speaker/sub combination with identical amps, a vertical approach would provide optimum separation. That was what Wilson/VTL did at the 2014 RMAF show.

Quite frankly, I'd take the Mac out of the mix altogether and drive both pair with the Crown. It is stable driving 2 ohm loads and produces more power alone into the lower impedance than using both amps.
 
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