Star Trek "Enterprise" anyone?

[ducati_EL34]

That is another problem with TNG/Voyager, in TNG the Borg were badass kicking federation butt. Now comes voyager, and they did space of them, as if they were a bunch of nancy boys.


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[Dukiedook]

Janeway's hairbun was too strong for the likes of teh borg.

Maybe I need to revisit DS9 on DVD, it did have some interesting characters in it.

 

[mech986]

Hi Guys,

All the praise and criticism of the ST franchises and all the folks involved is interesting...but that was the production reality of the time they were made. The people who wrote TOS were some of the greatest but their stories usually had to be heavily rewritten to fit production realities - TOS never had much budget and any sort of special effects were literally being thought up and created on the fly. My Favorite, City on the Edge of Forever, was rewritten extensively into a makeable show, but its author, Harlan Ellison, literally disowned the onscreen version.

It's a TV and Movie series. As a long time Trekker, I share and do understand all your passion for your positions. But there were reasons for most of the decisions you guys sometimes deride. Frankly I like most all of the ST universe because it made you think. Sure, there's plenty of fairly mundane Hollywood/TV stuff but at least it was decently story and character driven, as opposed to the CGI / Explosion / shoot-em-up crap that passes for entertainment today.

As for bad writing, IMHO, if you don't like it, try doing it yourself. There's tons of fan fiction, fan videos and a couple of actual movies, and even Fan produced podcast series that are surprisingly good (iTunes is a pretty good source). And canon? Well lots of people thought it was important (IMO Fontana and Berman tried to keep it reasonably close) and others thought it was an impediment and albatross (Paramount/CBS execs but then they own it and it is a money making exercise for them mostly). After what seems like over a thousand episodes, try thinking of a storyline that is related to ST that hasn't already been done without trying to get off canon. And didn't Star Trek literally invent the alternate timeline/reality, parallel universes, and time travel paradox loops off of prevailing relativistic physics/quantum mechanics/cosmology anyway? (No offense to writers and fans of The Outer Limits and Twilight Zone, sci-fi TV predecessors of Star Trek).

The fact that we have such interesting and sometimes contentious discussions suggests that the broad ST universe is not really far off from our reality. Plenty of conspiracies (Borg, Paramount/CBS), youth and age bias (Wesley, Picard), gender bias (Janeway, 7 of 9, T'Pol), who's the best captain (really, Archer was supposed to be more of a loose canon than Kirk because everything Kirk had to operate with was not even thought of in Enterprise), etc. Just look around at every nation and corner of our little planet and its all Star Trek storylines, just set in space and other planets/star systems.

But you guys are holding a lot back in the discussion - you should read some of the Star Trek forums out there, they don't pass the AK civility test at all.

Back to your regularly scheduled ST thread.

 

[ducati_EL34]

Janeway's hairbun was too strong for the likes of teh borg.

Maybe I need to revisit DS9 on DVD, it did have some interesting characters in it.

Yeah janeway needed to loosen the bun. A few vision quests with Geronimo would not have hurt either...


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[ducati_EL34]

Hi Guys,

All the praise and criticism of the ST franchises and all the folks involved is interesting...but that was the production reality of the time they were made. The people who wrote TOS were some of the greatest but their stories usually had to be heavily rewritten to fit production realities - TOS never had much budget and any sort of special effects were literally being thought up and created on the fly. My Favorite, City on the Edge of Forever, was rewritten extensively into a makeable show, but its author, Harlan Ellison, literally disowned the onscreen version.

I thought everyone knew this...

As for bad writing, IMHO, if you don't like it, try doing it yourself.

No thanks. I am a reader, not a writer...

But you guys are holding a lot back in the discussion - you should read some of the Star Trek forums out there, they don't pass the AK civility test at all.

No thanks. Those forums are filled with guys, who still live in their mother's basement. Or like that adult age fanboy in my town, who has his minivan painted up like a starfleet shuttle. :lmao:

 

[Dukiedook]

That's right, let's not delve into the dark abyss that is Braga/Berman Star Trek.
This whole thread could erupt in flames.

 

[Sandy G]

Roddenberry's original premise was for a "Wagon Train"-a barely remembered 1960 era western- to the stars- a future where humanity had, for the most part, overcome all our petty squabbles.

 

[ducati_EL34]

Roddenberry's original premise was for a "Wagon Train"-a barely remembered 1960 era western- to the stars- a future where humanity had, for the most part, overcome all our petty squabbles.

Yeah so Kirk and crew could go stirring up trouble amoung aliens and humanoids...


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[poprhetor]

I liked this series a lot. Jolene Blalock was hot in her skin-tight pixie suit (not quite as hot as Jeri Ryan as 7 of 9, but that's another discussion).

I went to high school with Jolene. Super hot, though I think the boobs arrived later. I didn't know her but hung out with her brother a few times. Didn't realize that his sister was "that hot petite chick," the only name I knew her by, until after I graduated.

 

[Tom Brennan]

Roddenberry's original premise was for a "Wagon Train"-a barely remembered 1960 era western- to the stars- a future where humanity had, for the most part, overcome all our petty squabbles.

John Ford directed a Wagon Train episode for his friend Ward Bond, the Colter Craven story. It's on Netflix streaming. It has quite a few of Ford's stock company in it including Carlton "this is the West Sir" Young, Ken "so he married a Comache squaw, haw, haw, haw" Curtis and Willis "nothing's too good for the man who shot Liberty Valance" Bouchay. And Anna Lee, Chuck Hayward, John Carradine and, oh yeah, John Wayne.

Frankie McGrath, Bond's grizzled sidekick on the show, played a bugler in Fort Apache, She Wore a Yellow Ribbon and Rio Grande.

 

[Eric H]

Picard bad? are you serious?

I think he's one of the best Captains, followed by Archer, who's supposed to be a bit unsure of himself because he's the first to venture into space.
Kirk was good but their mission was basically to get him laid by as many aliens as possible. Shatner really made that show work with his confident swagger and dead serious delivery.

I couldn't get past Janeways voice, that croaking noise she made was like chalk on a blackboard to me.

Wesley, well he should have been pushed out an airlock, cast strictly to attract the nerdy teenybopper crowd.

I was hoping Trip and T'Pol would produce a little Spocklet. :yes: but we all know Spock is the first Human Vulcan Hybrid and not for another 200 years or so.

 

[ducati_EL34]

Picard bad? are you serious?




I think he's one of the best Captains, followed by Archer, who's supposed to be a bit unsure of himself because he's the first to venture into space.
Kirk was good but their mission was basically to get him laid by as many aliens as possible. Shatner really made that show work with his confident swagger and dead serious delivery.

Yes I am serious. Picard should have been captain of the Loveboat.

I put Kirk 1st and Archer 2nd. I love kirk's "gunboat" diplomacy in, "A Taste of Armegeddon". Oh and his liberal interpretation of the prime directive. When archer was captain, it was only the "prime suggestion", which he ignored with ease.


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[RamblinE]

Currently thoroughly enjoying Voyager. Recent controversy aside, Netflix is a wonderful thing. The biggest things I don't like about the series are Neelix, Neelix and Neelix. Then a big part of me wonders why the series isn't much darker than it is, why Voyager isn't falling apart like the Battlestar Galactica was... different series and different universe but one single warship stuck without a home or a safe port trying to get to salvation, I can't help but to draw comparisons. The two alternate timeline episodes, Year of Hell Parts 1 and 2 seem much more plausible to me than the rest of the series. Simple put, Voyager gets ravaged for a year until eventually Janeway has no choice but to destroy the ship in an attempt to restore the proper timeline. That hour and a half of my life was EPIC.

Voyager may not be plausible but I find the show immensely enjoyable none the less.

In regards to criticisms about Starfleet and the Maquis going from enemies to friends, the fact of the matter is that Starfleet wasn't the Maquis' direct enemy, the Cardassians were.

Want to know what I didn't like about Enterprise? For being the first ship and first Starfleet crew really able to efficiently travel into deep space, they sure seem awfully prepared and awfully able to tackle any problems they encounter. I can't stand that one little bit, it drives me crazy. I haven't nearly finished that series yet. I suppose eventually I'll have to in order to properly compare the different series as this thread seems to be dedicated to do Give me a year or more on that though

 

[prisoners]

What really ruined it for me was the 'Trip' character...(besides being an absolutely stupid name).. he's a terrible actor. He was also insubordinate, arrogant, and generally unlikeable. That drawl got under my skin too.

 

[ducati_EL34]

In regards to criticisms about Starfleet and the Maquis going from enemies to friends, the fact of the matter is that Starfleet wasn't the Maquis' direct enemy, the Cardassians were.

Then why was the federation sending a brand new starship after them? Why did a star fleet officer go to the trouble of infiltrating the maquis?

One other thing, they must have a lot of writer's block on the voyager staff. There were too many "holodeck mishap" episodes.




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[RamblinE]

Then why was the federation sending a brand new starship after them? Why did a star fleet officer go to the trouble of infiltrating the maquis?

One other thing, they must have a lot of writer's block on the voyager staff. There were too many "holodeck mishap" episodes.




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The Federation signed a treaty with the Cardassians that ended their armed conflict. They remained friendly with each other until the war with the Dominion. It's not that implausible to track down your own people who are in armed conflicted with one of your, uh, allies. (of sorts).

As far as the writing goes? Sometimes it is tedious. One of my biggest gripes with the writing is the constant theme of saying "oh gee, that sure looks threatening, lets fly right into it!".

 

[Sandy G]

IIRC, Trip & Archer were buds, I guess Archer let him get away w/a little more stuff since they were friends. The drawl was pretty fake. But IMHO, virtually NO actor who's NOT from the South ever gets our "Brogue" right...WE can tell 'em a mile off...To me, T'Pol came off as arrogant. Spock was supposed to not have emotions, yet he never came across as "High & Mighty" as T'pol did. Always thought she just LET Archer THINK he was in command, if he started really humanly making a mess of things, SHE woulda stepped in & straightened it out..

 

[ducati_EL34]

IIRC, Trip & Archer were buds, I guess Archer let him get away w/a little more stuff since they were friends. The drawl was pretty fake. But IMHO, virtually NO actor who's NOT from the South ever gets our "Brogue" right...WE can tell 'em a mile off...To me, T'Pol came off as arrogant. Spock was supposed to not have emotions, yet he never came across as "High & Mighty" as T'pol did. Always thought she just LET Archer THINK he was in command, if he started really humanly making a mess of things, SHE woulda stepped in & straightened it out..

Spock had emotions, he just kept them in check. T'Pol "experimented" with her emotions.

Oh and don't forget star trek 5. Spock's brother embraced his emotions.


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[prisoners]

T'Pol gets a pass for a lot of things because SHE WAS FREAKIN' HOT!!!!

 

[Tom Brennan]

What really ruined it for me was the 'Trip' character...(besides being an absolutely stupid name).. he's a terrible actor. He was also insubordinate, arrogant, and generally unlikeable. That drawl got under my skin too.

No lie. He was possibly the worst character ever in any Star Trek series.