Stop fearing the sub, learn to love it!
- Thread starter cubdog
- Start date
whoaru99
Epic Member
The device in and of itself is still a crossover because it has the capability to act as such, but you're using it as a low pass filter only.
So, I opine it would be more proper to say I have the sub low-passed at 80Hz (or whatever), not crossed (over) at 80Hz because it's not crossing over to a high pass.
Otoh, in my HT setup I would say the sub, or system, is crossed (over) at 80Hz because it is low-passed at 80Hz and the other speakers are high-passed at 80Hz.
So, I opine it would be more proper to say I have the sub low-passed at 80Hz (or whatever), not crossed (over) at 80Hz because it's not crossing over to a high pass.
Otoh, in my HT setup I would say the sub, or system, is crossed (over) at 80Hz because it is low-passed at 80Hz and the other speakers are high-passed at 80Hz.
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Rob41
Don't stop believin'
I thought that deserved to be repeated.
I think of how much time people spend trying to find just the right speakers or at the very least, how much time the speaker manufacturers spend trying to get everything just right.
If subwoofers aren't properly implemented how could they possibly sound right especially considering most of us at this site have a higher expectations of audio quality than the general public.
I feel fortunate to use an active DSP so in many ways it will be easier to manipulate most of the variables.
Tbone289
Schiit/Creek
In that case, you are using a low-pass filter circuit. Not a crossover circuit. It is not the box or it's capabilities that determines what it is--technically.
If I pull a PCB out of a two-way bookshelf speaker and show it to folks that enjoy our hobby, then ask them what it is, would most of them (including myself) say that it is a crossover? It's likely they would.
If the circuit on that PCB runs the MW at full spectrum, it is not a crossover--technically. It is a high-pass filter.
If I employ an op-amp in a circuit as a low-pass filter, it is still a low-pass filter, even though it is an active device. It is not a crossover. If I employ two op-amps in a circuit, one as a low-pass filter and the other as a high-pass filter, I will be using those active devices together as a crossover, splitting the input signal into separate frequency bands.
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Rob41
Don't stop believin'
Sounds like you used the sub correctly! :yes:
dnewma04
The Healer
It'll never go away. People have their minds made up. I've been fighting this fight since the mid 00's I think.
supwiddiss
Member
Agrees! :thmbsp:
cubdog
banging through drywall
Rob41
Don't stop believin'
Hmm, my plan was to use my subs in mono crossed at 75-80Hz and little, if any, overlap with the mains. Luckily I've got a DSP so trying this will be easy. Thanks for sharing your experience.
mulester7
LIVE from Lake Ouachita
.....To me, this is a recipe for distortion and "mud" going against the midrange and highs of the mains....the woofers of the main speakers need to be bottom-cut at the point the subs take over, using an electronic crossover hopefully having at least 18db per octave roll-off.....
davidro
Lunatic Member
If you understood the unavoidable implications arising from the fact that the LF is non-directional, you'd appreciate why you're wrong.
But apparently some disagree the LF is non-directional. A bit of urban myth but that's what makes the forum discussion fun I guess
Sent from my X10a using Tapatalk 2
Rob41
Don't stop believin'
I believe I will ultimately end up running my subs in mono, crossed at or near the point they become non-directional as I fully understand this is likely to produce the results I'm looking for.
However, I will absolutely be trying many different configurations including, but not limited to, higher cutoff points, much overlap and yes, even in stereo. I take all the science, specs, opinions and experiences into consideration and apply them to my own results, to form my own preference. And honestly, when I'm in my listening space listening to music with my system set up the way I like it to sound, it's my preference and my preference alone that matters. It will indeed be set up CORRECTLY. :yes: Everything else is dust in the wind.
However, I will absolutely be trying many different configurations including, but not limited to, higher cutoff points, much overlap and yes, even in stereo. I take all the science, specs, opinions and experiences into consideration and apply them to my own results, to form my own preference. And honestly, when I'm in my listening space listening to music with my system set up the way I like it to sound, it's my preference and my preference alone that matters. It will indeed be set up CORRECTLY. :yes: Everything else is dust in the wind.
mulester7
LIVE from Lake Ouachita
.....a front-firing sub is non-directional above 35 hz?....but, it doesn't matter if it's directional or non, if you overlap the range of the main with the sub's range, you're going to get distortion and mud....and don't just tell me I'm wrong, tell me why I'm wrong.....
davidro
Lunatic Member
Yes.
Why? Because it is non-directional. And that matters.
Try a little googling on room modes and bass nulls and peaks. A few papers on Distributed Bass are easily accessible.
The LF just doesn't behave like the higher frequencies.
If you listen to cans, none of the above matters. But it's not just the gear that you listen to. It's the interaction between your gear and your room that you listen to.
davidro
Lunatic Member
Look, frankly I wouldn't expect material difference between mono subs and stereo subs in practice. Human hearing is not all that precise. Nor is it all that consistent and reliable.
BUT if there is to be even theoretical 'voicing issues or a muddled sound', that would likely to occur in the stereo setup. Not the other way around.
Rob41
Don't stop believin'
Didn't say anything about mono or stereo here.....just different drivers, material etc with overlapping cut offs.
Not sure why you brought up stereo or mono....again, but voicing issues can happen even when you don't overlap frequencies let alone when you do. Manufacturers spend a great time and effort to correctly match drivers and ensuring proper voicing is one of many considerations. :yes:
With that said, of course you should go with whatever sounds good to your ears.
:thmbsp: