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SX-1000TD Odd problem - hoping for some help

spark1

Lunatic Member
Banned
Hello. A friend of mine recently purchased a Pioneer SX-1000TD with some problems, and asked me to take a look at it. I don't normally work on other people's units; I have more electronics knowledge than the average person, but no real expertise. He asked that I fix the immediate problems, and also "do whatever you would do if it was yours and you were going to keep/use it".

The right channel was dead, or almost completely dead - it may have had some very low output, but I think what was coming through was bleed-over from the other channel. Additionally, on DBT, the unit would fire up, bulb would go bright them immediately dim, then go bright for just a moment, then dim back down again and remain dim.

In any case, I isolated the problem to the tone/control board and found two bad capacitors (one swollen, one open). I replaced those, and the right channel seemed to be working. I did notice that it seemed a bit lower in output, but didn't give it much thought at the time, since I was going to recap the unit, adjust the center voltage, adjust the bias, clean the pots and switches, etc.

I proceeded to do that work, testing with DBT and brief sound checks after each half of each board was completed. No problems. BTW, once I addressed the caps on the tone board, the DBT test worked normally (power on, bright for a moment, then immediately dim...no second cycle of bright then dim).

Last night, after getting some needed parts, I completed the last board. Fine on DBT, so moved on to firing it up for an extended period to make sure all was good, and to give it a serious listen.

Initially, I though it sounded pretty good. Then, in comparing R and L channels, I realized that the right channel does indeed have a reduced, thinner-sounding output. After some investigation, I realized that neither the loudness switch nor the bass tone control have any effect on the right channel. It seems that the output is not so much reduced as it is missing the lower frequencies. Tone control and loudness seem to work just fine on the left channel.

I made an assumption that the problem is on the tone board, and did the following:

  • Triple checked orientation of all the new caps.
  • Examined all joints (new and old) under magnification and re-soldered anything even remotely suspicious (only a couple).
  • Compared voltages right to left at all the of the external connections of the board...both sides are same.
  • Measured voltage at just about all points in all circuits on the board, comparing right to left. No appreciable differences.
  • Measured resistors, in circuit. Got same results on both sides (right and left).
  • Checked resistance on bass pot tabs...seem good, and are same on both right and left halves of the pot.
  • Used diode test function to check the four transistors on this board (in circuit). All tested fine.
FYI...the reason I tested in circuit is to minimize stress on solder pads. I found when doing the cap work that they are unusually fragile on this unit.

I don't know where to go from here. I am not experienced/knowledgeable enough to come up with any theories on what would keep lower frequencies out of the right channel signal. Unless the AK brain trust has other suggestions for isolating the problem, my next steps will be:

  • Verify it is not a preamp problem by reversing inputs from preamp to tone board, under the assumption that if problem remains in the right channel, the preamp section is not the problem.
  • Reverse the inputs from the tone board to the power amp board to see if the problem follows.
A couple of other pieces of info that may or may not be useful:

  • After getting the boards recapped, but before centering the voltage and setting bias, I changed the voltage selector from 117V (where it apparently has been for a long time) to the 130V position. I did this under the assumption that with the normal 122-123V service from the local provider, it is better for the transformer to get less than expected than more.
  • I have not yet replaced the PS filter caps nor the output coupling caps (waiting for parts). I did measure the coupling caps in place...spec is 1000uf, and they both measured around 1500uf. I don't have a means of testing ESR. I would not think this is a big problem...in fact, I would think that higher capacitance here would be a good thing?
  • As part of "tuning up" this unit, I cleaned and tested the "center voltage" and bias pots, and set per service manual. Bias seems to be holding fine.
  • I also pulled the outputs, cleaned them, installed new insulators and thermal compound, and re-installed. While out, used diode test function of meter...all good.
  • I do not have a scope. I thought I was getting a used one later this month, but that deal fell through.
I sure would appreciate some help with figuring this out. Thank you very much.

EDIT: The manual and schematic I am using are from hifiengine.com, here:

https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/pioneer/sx-1000td.shtml

Paging @merlynski.
 
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I'm not an expert but I'm working on about the same unit. There are several threads on these. Include in your search the sx-1000ta and sx-1000tw. There are several known problem transistors in these units 2sc871, 2sc870, (or 2sc458 depending on your unit)) especially, so one plan would be to replace those, in control amp, main amp and head amp. Also the transistors in the power supply are often considered game for replacement.

If a capacitor is reading 1.5 times its rated value, the esr is probably bad, and anyway the capacitance at voltage is probably bad.
 
I'm not an expert but I'm working on about the same unit. There are several threads on these. Include in your search the sx-1000ta and sx-1000tw. There are several known problem transistors in these units 2sc871, 2sc870, (or 2sc458 depending on your unit)) especially, so one plan would be to replace those, in control amp, main amp and head amp. Also the transistors in the power supply are often considered game for replacement.

If a capacitor is reading 1.5 times its rated value, the esr is probably bad, and anyway the capacitance at voltage is probably bad.

Thanks for the reply. None of those transistors in this unit. In any case, I'd like to try to isolate this problem before going with the "replace all parts" strategy. I agree about ESR of the coupling caps, and they will be replaced when parts arrive, but it doesn't seem logical to me that they could be the cause of this right channel-only problem. But I could certainly be wrong!
 
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I know you are waiting for a reply from the experts, but while waiting, I'll ask which transistors you have, since the schematic shows all those transistors?

Also, on these units there are separate treble and bass pots for left and right channels, (front and back part of knobs).
 
I know you are waiting for a reply from the experts, but while waiting, I'll ask which transistors you have, since the schematic shows all those transistors?

Also, on these units there are separate treble and bass pots for left and right channels, (front and back part of knobs).


Yes regarding the pots. As I noted in my first post, pot measures same on right and left "halves". If problem was the pot, I would think that loudness function would be unaffected. Again, could be wrong though.

Which board are you inquiring about?
 
Have you verified the big cement resistors in the bottom connecting the big caps?
I found a bunch of those bad on a TW unit I rescued.

FWIW, on the TW I rescued, the biasing diodes were bad on one channel. I had to make replacements from diodes.
My TW was AFU when I got it and spent forever going through it.
Point being, you may need to test everything left to right to find the issue.
 
Have you verified the big cement resistors in the bottom connecting the big caps?
I found a bunch of those bad on a TW unit I rescued.

FWIW, on the TW I rescued, the biasing diodes were bad on one channel. I had to make replacements from diodes.
My TW was AFU when I got it and spent forever going through it.
Point being, you may need to test everything left to right to find the issue.


Had no trouble setting bias (measured pots, cleaned them, returned them to original resistance, then set them). Seems to be holding fine.

I will take a look at those resistors, but seems unlikely that they could play a role in this particular problem? As for checking everything right to left, wouldn't it make sense to try to isolate the problem first? That is, eliminate the preamp and the power amp per my "next steps" in initial post?

I should have mentioned in first post, as additional "background", that I pulled all the outputs, tested them (diode test), applied new insulators and thermal compound, and re-installed. I'll add that now.
 
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Sorry if the post has too much information. Perhaps it is better to just say I have a problem and hope that everyone asks all the right questions.

I had hoped that by describing in detail what has been done, it would be useful in the troubleshooting process. I guess not. Again, my apologies.
 
Take a breath. I’m sure the post is fine and the rest of these fine folks read it just fine. I was apologizing for missing that bit of detail.

:beerchug:
 
Glad we ruled breathing out as an issue. Maybe it’s your hearing. Try tilting your head the other way when listening. :banana:

Good luck with your resto.
 
Q801,802 on main amp, Q1,2,3,4 on control amp. Also Q101,102,103,104 on pre amp.

2SC369s on pre and tone boards. There are two 458s on power amp board that I forgot about...but they have been replaced with 1815s. Lots of 458s on tuner boards, but of course not pertinent to problem at hand.
 
I see, that makes sense. 2sc369 is listed on the schematic of its predecessor the sx-1000ta. I don't have knowledge one way or the other about those, so hopefully someone else comes along.
 
Change out all the caps and transistors on the preamp board. All of the other caps are going to be bad, and those transistors will not have aged well.
 
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