Teac TN300 and Phono Pre-amps under 300 dollars

[Rocco415]

Hello,

I recently picked up a TN300 and I'm pretty satisfied in the build and sound quality. I have been using the internal phono stage which sounds a bit...constrained. I am looking to get a new one and I wanted to get some thoughts here. I feel like the bass and midrange are currently ok but the highs are a bit lacking.

I am considering:
Parasound Z Phono,
Hagerman Bugle 2
Cambridge Audio Azure 651A
Art DJ (curious more than considering...I've heard it does well but have never heard it)
NAD PP4
Looking forward to experiences and reccommendations!

Notes: I am happy with my table, please refrain from recommending I buy a different deck. I will likely upgrade the cart down the road. (prob going with AT 440MLA or At120). I am looking for something that will pair well down the road.

The rest of my system is relatively mid-fi-(Energy RC70 fronts, Energy CB20 rears, RCL Center, No Sub, and a yamaha aventage receiver.

Thanks in advance!

Sincerely,
Lou

 

[winters860]

Hi Lou,

I found myself without a phono preamp recently and did the same legwork, coming up with substantially the same shortlist (plus the U-Turn Pluto and Schiit Mani).

I bought an ART DJPre II as a stopgap solution and... it works. That's about the best I can say about it. I wouldn't buy it expecting a substantial jump up from the internal preamp in the TN-300.

I'm going to be building the CNC MM preamp with OPS power supply using boards purchased form AKer sachu888, but if I weren't, I believe that my choices would be down to the universally lauded Hagerman Bugle 2 or relatively inexpensive and versatile Schiit Mani.

I'm glad you like your turntable. I've become a TEAC fanboy lately, and I'd love to play around with a TN-300 to get a feel for the build quality. I doubt it would displace my Technics SL-1600, though, so I probably won't get the chance.

Rather than jump up the AT line from the AT95E that comes with the TN-300, I believe I'd recommend buying an aftermarket Shibata stylus for your current cartridge, available from LP Gear or JICO for under $150.

 

[Rocco415]

Hi Lou,

I found myself without a phono preamp recently and did the same legwork, coming up with substantially the same shortlist (plus the U-Turn Pluto and Schiit Mani).

I bought an ART DJPre II as a stopgap solution and... it works. That's about the best I can say about it. I wouldn't buy it expecting a substantial jump up from the internal preamp in the TN-300.

I'm going to be building the CNC MM preamp with OPS power supply using boards purchased form AKer sachu888, but if I weren't, I believe that my choices would be down to the universally lauded Hagerman Bugle 2 or relatively inexpensive and versatile Schiit Mani.

I'm glad you like your turntable. I've become a TEAC fanboy lately, and I'd love to play around with a TN-300 to get a feel for the build quality. I doubt it would displace my Technics SL-1600, though, so I probably won't get the chance.

Rather than jump up the AT line from the AT95E that comes with the TN-300, I believe I'd recommend buying an aftermarket Shibata stylus for your current cartridge, available from LP Gear or JICO for under $150.

 

[Rocco415]

Your experience with the art is roughly what I was expecting, although some people really claim it's amazing (for 40 dollars). Im curious about it and may buy just to play around. I live in a high rise in manhattan and don't really have the space or the necessary equip to build a phono stage myself. That is one of the main reason I am gravitating towards the Bugle2. I would add the Shiit Mani as well, how does that compare to some of the others on the list? I would spend up to 300 but I prefer bang for the buck as opposed to throwing money at problems.

Im curious about the suggestion on upgrading the stylus, what sort of value would that provide? Does the shibata cause it to track better, or give it better tonal response?

In terms of the teac, the build quality is excellent. The fit and finish on the plinth is top notch the aluminum hardware feels solid. I don't really have any complaints for the price. It looks more sophisticated than (In my opinion) the project audio, uturns, rega's. I do love the looks of the thorens. Id say as it is the sound is alright, the lows and the mids are there, the highs are restrained but it has solid imaging and soundstage, if you have a few hundred to play with or need a second deck or its your first foray into vinyl, its a strong contender.

 

[winters860]

Schiit Mani supports MM or MC, has various loading and gain options, clocks in at $129, and is 100% made in the USA. Generally, people seem to like it, but you've probably figured out that opinions, especially on these entry-level preamps, vary quite a bit. Seems like a value contender with similar chops to the ~$200 crowd. What's not to like?

The Emotiva XPS-1 achieves give-or-take the same feature set and reputation as the Schiit Mani for $20 less, but I favor the Schiit for being manufactured domestically.

I forgot to mention the Little Bear T10 Ver. 2.5, which is the only tube preamp I looked seriously at. Were I to buy it, I'd probably equip it with some sort of new enclosure.

According to Ortofon, a Shibata (or similar profile) stylus results in "more precise treble reproduction, lower distortion, and less record wear". They may have an axe to grind, since their upper tier carts use such a profile, but that's pretty much the conventional wisdom. Read more here: http://ortofon.com/images/hifi/brochures/everything_you_need_to_know_about_styli_types.pdf

While both the AT120 and AT144 cartridge bodies feature different and more advanced generators than the AT95, there's nothing wrong with the AT95 body per say. If you've ever gone to buy a replacement stylus, you know that that's the expensive part of the equation. By leapfrogging to a similar stylus design to the AT440MLb, you should be able to retrieve a similar amount of detail without spending money on an entirely new cartridge. AT is sort of out of the ordinary among manufacturers in that they don't (currently) market a slew of different hi-fi models that use the same body and are differentiated by increasingly sophisticated styli. Since there's (all JICO-sourced to my knowledge) stylus upgrade paths available for AT95E owners, it makes good sense to take advantage of them. There's a couple of sellers that put together the AT95-Shibata combo new as the AT95SA or AT95SH, and there's reviews floating around.

Thanks for your impressions on the TN-300. The real wood veneer finishes that are available are a very nice touch. I think it'd be my entry-level pick, based on everything I've read and seen.

 

[Rocco415]

Any other thoughts here from anyone with the TN300?

 

[lico]

Have you tried an external pre amp with your TN-300 yet or just the internal one so far? I've used a few different setups and never though the internal pre amp was bad at all.

The AT-95E on the Teac is kind of laid back to begin with, probably not the best match for the arm, and upgrading the cartridge will make a difference if you find the highs lacking.

 

[Tharbamar]

Any other thoughts here from anyone with the TN300?

My advice would be definitely external preamp for TN-300 because It's just much quieter background compare to internal one.

I only experienced with Musical Fidelity V90LPS and Parasound Z-Phono for external phono stage and now I'm using with Denon PMA2000-MK4 Integrated amp phono stage which I think is more dynamic and very good sounding, In my experience with all three phono preamps Z-Phono is a little quieter.

Have you tried an external pre amp with your TN-300 yet or just the internal one so far? I've used a few different setups and never though the internal pre amp was bad at all.

The AT-95E on the Teac is kind of laid back to begin with, probably not the best match for the arm, and upgrading the cartridge will make a difference if you find the highs lacking.

Near future, I'm going to try high output MC cartridge like Denon DL-110 with this table I think it'll be good match with TN-300.

 

[grottyash]

The Cambridge Audio is probably the best one in your list, plus it handles both MM and MC.

Being truthful, though, if you want to improve the sound, then I'd look at changing the speakers first, followed by the receiver. As it stands, you're not going to hear most of the improvement until you do.

 

[Rocco415]

Have you tried an external pre amp with your TN-300 yet or just the internal one so far? I've used a few different setups and never though the internal pre amp was bad at all.

I have not used an other pre-amps as of yet. The idea was to buy the table, see if it was livable and move from there. In general I am quite satisfied, I just feel the sound is restrained, Imaging and soundstage is great, bass and mids are solid but the highs are lacking.

The AT-95E on the Teac is kind of laid back to begin with, probably not the best match for the arm, and upgrading the cartridge will make a difference if you find the highs lacking.

I may do this as well, I was interested in potentially upgrading the stylus to the jico shibata as mentioned above. Its sounds as though that would add to the highs. If that fails, get an AT ML440

 

[Rocco415]

My advice would be definitely external preamp for TN-300 because It's just much quieter background compare to internal one.

I only experienced with Musical Fidelity V90LPS and Parasound Z-Phono for external phono stage and now I'm using with Denon PMA2000-MK4 Integrated amp phono stage which I think is more dynamic and very good sounding, In my experience with all three phono preamps Z-Phono is a little quieter.

Near future, I'm going to try high output MC cartridge like Denon DL-110 with this table I think it'll be good match with TN-300.

Quick thanks is in order here, I did a lot of research and your thoughtful responses and videos came into play in my decision to purchase the TN300. I have for the most part been very happy!

How is the musicality of the V90LPS and the Parasound Z-Phono?

In terms of a 2 Channel setup, I may upgrade my receiver but I need something that can double duty as Listen/Home Theater. I don't have the space for a separate 2 channel setup.

What other carts have you tried on the teac? How well did they pair?

 

[telemike]

http://store.uturnaudio.com/products/pluto-phono-preamp

Pluto is built in Boston, MA and comes with a 3 year warranty.

 

[Rocco415]

The Cambridge Audio is probably the best one in your list, plus it handles both MM and MC.


Being truthful, though, if you want to improve the sound, then I'd look at changing the speakers first, followed by the receiver. As it stands, you're not going to hear most of the improvement until you do.

What prompts you to say that the Cambridge Audio is the best? Hands-on experience? Specs? Have you heard the Cambridge Audio-If so I would be curious about your experience and your thoughts.

In terms of getting a new receiver, that is in the cards. I am looking to upgrade for the day when I get a 4k TV, I would be looking for a musically inclined receiver that does double duty as Home Theater. Any recommendations are welcome.
In terms of replacing my speakers, I dont think that will fix the problem. The RC70's are great speakers and they punch well above their class. They arent McIntosh but I dont have that budget...I would hazard the guess I would have to spend close to 5k on speakers to audibly best what I have in speakers.

The other reason I don't think it is really the receiver or speakers is because I have done some comparisons between different albums vs my lossless music collection and quite honestly the lossless digital sounds great, where the analog is a bit lacking. The first issue is I have no gain adjustment so I have to crank my stereo to get the volumes I like...this is not too surprising but in a perfect world I would like some additional control over gain. The second issue is that although soundstage, base and mids are reasonable, the Highs seem to be a bit restrained...It sounds soft to me and my preference is for a sharper sound.

 

[Rocco415]

http://store.uturnaudio.com/products/pluto-phono-preamp

Pluto is built in Boston, MA and comes with a 3 year warranty.

Do you have experience with Pluto? Looks well built. How does it sound, does it change the tonal characteristics of music?

 

[grottyash]

I've had a few of those, but the one I liked most was the CA. On MM it's very good, on MC not bad. However, if you look through the net you'll see there are quite a few mods available that lift the performance, plus some companies that offer upgrades. I don't see that for the other options you mention.

I went from a home theatre setup back to stereo hifi, and the lift in sound quality was remarkable. Currently I use Neat speakers (bought secondhand, I'm not rich) with an old Arcam amplifier and it sounds terrific. I don't miss home theatre, but then I listen 95% of the time to vinyl or CD.

 

[Rocco415]

I've had a few of those, but the one I liked most was the CA. On MM it's very good, on MC not bad. However, if you look through the net you'll see there are quite a few mods available that lift the performance, plus some companies that offer upgrades. I don't see that for the other options you mention.

I went from a home theatre setup back to stereo hifi, and the lift in sound quality was remarkable. Currently I use Neat speakers (bought secondhand, I'm not rich) with an old Arcam amplifier and it sounds terrific. I don't miss home theatre, but then I listen 95% of the time to vinyl or CD.

I would love to have a dedicated music rig but I just don't have the space. My Girlfriend and I enjoy movies, TV, and music; whats Dancing with the stars without Surround Sound ?

My music is mostly Flac files, spotify and now records. I have CD's but I have long since uploaded them to the cloud.

Right now my yamaha is the central switch and provides all the amplification. My Energy RC70's are quite competent for music and movies; a few years back they were rated best speaker under 1000. They aren't the king of the mountain but they aren't an impediment here. With the Yammy, It has good sound, and clean power (could use more) and has provided good reliable service for 5 years.

 

[SSaxdude]

If you use the Teac longer with the internal preamp before switching to an external one, you'll appreciate the jump more.

The AT95E is a perfectly fine cartridge. I'm not sure of the compliance of the tonearm, but if it tracks well for you then your money is best spent elsewhere before a new cart.

 

[Tharbamar]

Quick thanks is in order here, I did a lot of research and your thoughtful responses and videos came into play in my decision to purchase the TN300. I have for the most part been very happy!

How is the musicality of the V90LPS and the Parasound Z-Phono?

In terms of a 2 Channel setup, I may upgrade my receiver but I need something that can double duty as Listen/Home Theater. I don't have the space for a separate 2 channel setup.

What other carts have you tried on the teac? How well did they pair?

I really like the sound of V90LPS too I remember it's being more dynamic sounding than Z-Phono and It has separate MM and MC inputs which I like the most of V90LPS.
Although I choose Z-Phono for synergy with my equipments because I like the warmish tube like sound of Parasound solid state products in general but don't get me wrong MF V90LPS is a great phono stage for money no slouch in performance.
My advice is choose the equipment base on your taste of sound and how you like to hear it when you're trying to enjoy your favorite music.

I tried Z-Phono with Denon DL-80 HOMC (OE MC Cartridge from Denon DP47F) on TN-300 and I really like the sound of it, I like it better than AT95E very musical and instrument separation so great that I'm keeping it permanently on TEAC. Such a good sound for my taste.

Oh! I would add Pro-Ject Phono Box DS to my list if I were shopping for Phono preamplifier. May not be quiet as Parasound but very versatile phono pre for $299, Let us know which one you decide..,

 

[Rocco415]

If you use the Teac longer with the internal preamp before switching to an external one, you'll appreciate the jump more.

The AT95E is a perfectly fine cartridge. I'm not sure of the compliance of the tonearm, but if it tracks well for you then your money is best spent elsewhere before a new cart.

Tracking seems fine to me, although I need to really get a more specific measure of the tracking force...I kind of eye-balled it with no gauge. I have it set at 2.2 with antiskate of 2.

 

[Rocco415]

I really like the sound of V90LPS too I remember it's being more dynamic sounding than Z-Phono and It has separate MM and MC inputs which I like the most of V90LPS.
Although I choose Z-Phono for synergy with my equipments because I like the warmish tube like sound of Parasound solid state products in general but don't get me wrong MF V90LPS is a great phono stage for money no slouch in performance.
My advice is choose the equipment base on your taste of sound and how you like to hear it when you're trying to enjoy your favorite music.

I tried Z-Phono with Denon DL-80 HOMC (OE MC Cartridge from Denon DP47F) on TN-300 and I really like the sound of it, I like it better than AT95E very musical and instrument separation so great that I'm keeping it permanently on TEAC. Such a good sound for my taste.

Oh! I would add Pro-Ject Phono Box DS to my list if I were shopping for Phono preamplifier. May not be quiet as Parasound but very versatile phono pre for $299, Let us know which one you decide..,

Thanks so much, for your advice. That is why I love analog-tailored to my musical tastes. To that end, the tough part is I dont have the time or money for much trial and error. I tend to enjoy a more british sound, strong separation and sound stage with clear and resolute highs, defined base and mid. Any idea of what the tonal characteristics are for the aforementioned phono stages?