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Technics Q303 vs Technics SL 1700

markshan said:
both of the shibatas shown on the stereoneedles page say "No Stock!" in big red letters
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Point well taken! Very new to the world of not-entirely-bargain-basement audio still. All the options in Group A at the stereoneedles link ranged from $20-50 which I didn’t bat an eye at. But while I’ve certainly read plenty of “what cartridge is best for Table X..?” type threads and seen the $300-500 recommendations, the $130 stylus was still news to me. Learning every day!

Having just replaced basically everything in a matter of weeks (receiver, speakers, sub, tt) I’ll probably settle in and appreciate the set up for a bit before dropping that kind of $$. But I’m glad to have a window into where to start with future upgrades though! Thanks for all the insight
 
the_bellhop said:
Point well taken! Very new to the world of not-entirely-bargain-basement audio still. All the options in Group A at the stereoneedles link ranged from $20-50 which I didn’t bat an eye at. But while I’ve certainly read plenty of “what cartridge is best for Table X..?” type threads and seen the $300-500 recommendations, the $130 stylus was still news to me. Learning every day!

Having just replaced basically everything in a matter of weeks (receiver, speakers, sub, tt) I’ll probably settle in and appreciate the set up for a bit before dropping that kind of $$. But I’m glad to have a window into where to start with future upgrades though! Thanks for all the insight
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There are a lot of complicated (over my head) geopolitical reasons that the cost of diamonds has skyrocketed in the last few years. If I were that seller I would probably increase the price on my remaining inventory. On the other hand, NOS styli sometimes have dried up suspensions or other issues. Again though, if you find they have any fiddy bux shibata left please let me know. Seriously. I'll buy.

Also, my experience is that the stylus cut makes much more difference in sound than the cartridge. For decades Ortofon (for example) has used the same body for their budget models as their much better ones. The OM 10 and OM 40 were the same carts but very different styli.
 
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the_bellhop said:
Point well taken! Very new to the world of not-entirely-bargain-basement audio still. All the options in Group A at the stereoneedles link ranged from $20-50 which I didn’t bat an eye at. But while I’ve certainly read plenty of “what cartridge is best for Table X..?” type threads and seen the $300-500 recommendations, the $130 stylus was still news to me. Learning every day!

Having just replaced basically everything in a matter of weeks (receiver, speakers, sub, tt) I’ll probably settle in and appreciate the set up for a bit before dropping that kind of $$. But I’m glad to have a window into where to start with future upgrades though! Thanks for all the insight
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Think of it this way... in the current AT line, the VM540 sells for $249 but the shibata VM750 sells for $400. So don't think of it as spending $150 for a replacement stylus, think of it as upgrading to a $400 cartridge for only $150. You will find that the new diamond cut makes a tremendous difference. Or if you would rather have new, the new AT VM95SH is a ridiculous bargain at $199 (that said, I'd probably still go for the JICO). Believe me, I am a tight wad and was skeptical when I spent $100 on my 440 back in the day (that would be an insane bargain now) but I am a firm believer.
 
markshan said:
Think of it this way... in the current AT line, the VM540 sells for $249 but the shibata VM750 sells for $400. So don't think of it as spending $150 for a replacement stylus, think of it as upgrading to a $400 cartridge for only $150. You will find that the new diamond cut makes a tremendous difference. Or if you would rather have new, the new AT VM95SH is a ridiculous bargain at $199 (that said, I'd probably still go for the JICO). Believe me, I am a tight wad and was skeptical when I spent $100 on my 440 back in the day (that would be an insane bargain now) but I am a firm believer.
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Maybe I can chime in here. Until about November last year I had an AT12 with shibata on my SL-1100. It was a very good set up. I sold a bunch of old toys and stuff on eBay and treated myself to the AT VM740ML. This is an excellent cartridge. In retrospect, it was a little harder to balance the tone arm, but I am not sure if that is due to an issue with the tone arm itself (the counterweight) or me missing the auxiliary weight. I say this because the VM540 and VM740 are essentially the same internally. As mentioned, the stylus eventually becomes the path to the more expensive cart.

When the time comes, I’ll probably spend the money to get the TOL stylus. No guarantee it will be better for my table, but I’d guess yes. Of course, then you start wondering about whether or not some other link in the chain is now too weak. My opinion is buy the best cart you can swing, even if it’s settling for a “lower end” stylus. But if you want to go the cheapest route, the VM95 is a great value they say. You can never have too many cartridges, anyway.

The other great thing is, the cartridge is portable. If you end up getting a newer table (upgrading the the Technics family) you can keep the cartridge. Hell, you should order up the Technics alignment tool thing. It’s EZ mode for mounting and aligning cartridges. I got one on KABUSA years ago. Slap it on top of a mirror and you’re good to go.
 
I like the idea of using what you have and dropping some coin down the road on a nice cart as this will give you a chance to hear what you have and hear the improvement from the new cartridge.
 
Thought I’d follow up after a few months of use with some updates. TT and receiver both ended up needing a bit of love:
  • 1700 wasn’t maintaining steady speed so I followed some advice I found in other threads to get inside and hit the 33/45 speed selector switch and the trim pots with deoxit. Holding perfectly steady now!
  • Put a few drops of oil on the spindle while I was in there (found correct oil type from another thread)
  • Was briefly only getting sound from the L channel, so I double checked the cart wires, cleaned the pins at the back of the headshell and the corresponding connect on the tonearm. All good now.
  • Full idiots guide to deoxit treatment on the receiver to clear up some scratchiness.
After all that I was pretty pleased, but I still felt like the sound was a tiny bit flat, and since I had no idea how much wear was on the stylus I went with the recommendation from @markshan and picked up the JICO AT12S—holy hell dude, thank you. Truly loving the sound so far and I’ve only had it on since last night so it’s not even properly “broken in” yet. Really been enjoying learning and tinkering, but mostly enjoying the awesome sounding music :)
 
the_bellhop said:
Thought I’d follow up after a few months of use with some updates. TT and receiver both ended up needing a bit of love:
  • 1700 wasn’t maintaining steady speed so I followed some advice I found in other threads to get inside and hit the 33/45 speed selector switch and the trim pots with deoxit. Holding perfectly steady now!
  • Put a few drops of oil on the spindle while I was in there (found correct oil type from another thread)
  • Was briefly only getting sound from the L channel, so I double checked the cart wires, cleaned the pins at the back of the headshell and the corresponding connect on the tonearm. All good now.
  • Full idiots guide to deoxit treatment on the receiver to clear up some scratchiness.
After all that I was pretty pleased, but I still felt like the sound was a tiny bit flat, and since I had no idea how much wear was on the stylus I went with the recommendation from @markshan and picked up the JICO AT12S—holy hell dude, thank you. Truly loving the sound so far and I’ve only had it on since last night so it’s not even properly “broken in” yet. Really been enjoying learning and tinkering, but mostly enjoying the awesome sounding music :)
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That makes me happy. I still get amazing at how much of a difference that tiny little speck of diamond makes.
 
@the_bellhop your next $100 needs to be on an RCM if you are playing used vinyl. Trust me on this one as well. Google Canfab Squeaky Clean Vinyl. It's the best hundred dollars I've ever spent in this hobby.
 
markshan said:
your next $100 needs to be on an RCM if you are playing used vinyl. Trust me on this one as well
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I do have a Spin Clean and went through the whole collection and gave all my records a deep clean when I first got it. I also use it any time I pick up new (to me) used records. I also have the Groove Washer spray and microfiber that I use on occasion if a record seems to need more than just a normal anti-static brush for dust before spinning.


markshan said:
No. The Canfab is much better for just a bit more. I've compared them.
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oh interesting! What were the main differences when you compared them?


markshan said:
That makes me happy. I still get amazing at how much of a difference that tiny little speck of diamond makes.
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YES! I’m surprised by just how much different it sounds. New records sound even fuller and a touch more warm, and my older records seem to have less surface noise (though I’ve only tested a few thus far.

Though honestly, same thing happened when I added small isolation feet under my speakers. They were a low $$/risk experiment, but I was quite skeptical that I’d actually hear the difference. But it boosted the bass and clarity(?)—i.e. it sort of “tightened up” the sound—noticeably.
 
If you already have the Spin Clean you shouldn't need to upgrade I don't think. Anyone starting out I recommend the Canfab. I like being able to use different fluids then follow with a distilled water rinse and I really like having new clean fluid for each record instead of using old dirty fluid. It's like taking a shower vs a bath.

The guy who runs that little company is great too. Designed it for himself then started selling it. I don't think he is a member here but he would fit right in.
 
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