The 80s, when and why did it all go wrong?

[trhee]

Sorry but this argument is a bit asinine.

Back in the Walkman days, people couldn't even begin to fathom carrying 500 albums around. The technology just wasn't there to do this in a manner that was convenient.

I carry around "500 albums" with me all the time, whether it's on my phone or iPod. I enjoy listening to complete albums, complete classical pieces as well as compilations and playlists. I also enjoy and appreciate having a wide variety of music available depending on my mood. How I choose to store my music, the amount or the device that I choose to listen to doesn't denigrate how much I enjoy it, nor does it make the "album" any less significant.

A person who listens to singles and changes songs frequently will do the same regardless of the device used, whether it's a home system or an iPod.

Yeah back then people were happy to leave the house with 1 album on the walkman. Now you have to have your entire 500 albums on your ipod/phone before you leave the house. Yet another way that make the "album" less important. Its all about single singles now. Less focus one one artists entore work. Jumping and shuffling from band to band.

 

[Daunia 70]

the performance of the top gear took massive leaps due to the fantastic semiconductors the Japanese were refining.

If that's the case,how come there's no SQ improvement in a 1989 TOTL Pioneer A-91D reference/Elite digital amplifier compared to their TOTL 1979 SA-9800 ? Also,with inflation taken into account their prices would've been around the same amount (give or take $100).

 

[mgosdin]

There was no one time, no one thing that could be pointed to in the 1980's as a pivotal change point. It was ( and is ) way way too complex for that.

Cost cutting, Taste Changes, Economic Slumps and Economic Booms. Of course people changed as generations matured, the oldest passed on and younger became buyers.

The Audio industry was impacted by all the same changes in the 80's as the rest of the world was. It evolved, some things died out and other things flourished.

Mark Gosdin

 

[mhedges]

This is the only hobby I have been in where people are nostalgic for things produced in the 70's. I thought the general consensus was that the 70s was a low point for pretty much all manufactured goods.

Of course, I am talking mostly about things made in the US. And most/all of the 70s silver audio that everyone lusts for was made in Japan. So maybe that's it.

 

[SA-708]

Yeah back then people were happy to leave the house with 1 album on the walkman. Now you have to have your entire 500 albums on your ipod/phone before you leave the house. Yet another way that make the "album" less important. Its all about single singles now. Less focus one one artists entore work. Jumping and shuffling from band to band.

Back when Walkmen and cassette tape car stereos were new, I used to jump and shuffle from band to band using the technology known as the "mix tape."

 

[sKiZo]

Simply put, there's good and bad in every generation of audio equipment. Main difference determining which is which is whether it was built to a price point set by marketing, or if it was priced based on what it took to make it happen ...

 

[Karl vd Berg]

Back when Walkman and cassette tape car stereos were new, I used to jump and shuffle from band to band using the technology known as the "mix tape."

That's a good point. Listening to the music on the go. After cassette players in the car, there were also those 10 CDs-changers boxes from Alpine, Sony or Pioneer behind the seat. I had then, too.

Of those "computer-controlled" stuff from the 80s, I liked to have the Marantz SR-930. Horrible for some, cool for many.

And the newer Yamaha A-S3000 is just beautiful... :tresbon:

 

[markshan]

Well to tell the truth this would need to get political to discuss correctly.

Yes, but one can say that when it became cheaper to import than to repair the move to disposability was on. Why it became cheaper is a political discussion.

 

[RayW]

A person who listens to singles and changes songs frequently will do the same regardless of the device used, whether it's a home system or an iPod.

Yeah, this.

Back when Walkmen and cassette tape car stereos were new, I used to jump and shuffle from band to band using the technology known as the "mix tape."

And this.

Many people bemoan the fact that it is easy to download a single song now so artists are losing out on revenue and music is suffering and the album is a dying art, etc. The flipside of that is that nowadays we don't have to live with the filler that made most of those older albums albums. Artists are judged on each song instead of being able to put out an album with 2 or 3 "good" songs (read: popular, desirable, whatever) and a bunch of garbage. From my earliest recollections of owning music in any form I remember skipping songs to get to the ones I liked. At one point I had a car stereo (Alpine) and a boombox (can't remember brand) that had "music search" functions on the cassette decks. This seemed heaven sent to me. I could hit the button and jump over the flotsam instead of ff-stop-play-ff-stop-play-ff-stop-play-rew-stop-play.

I was always big on mix tapes. Now I use playlists. I have more music now than ever before.

And apropos to this thread, I like the looks and sound of the 80's and 90's gear that I have had (and still own) to the 70's stuff that has passed through here.

 

[runnin']

On the thread topic, a change indeed came to the manufacturing industry around the end of the 70's. Of course there are exceptions, but the general audio manufacturers moved to different methods to get faster production and cheaper costs which caused components to break down sooner and sonics to suffer. Kenwood, Sansui, Pioneer, Hitachi, Yamaha, Technics, etc. all made outstanding receivers and integrated amps in the 70's that can still be found running today, almost 40 years later. After the change they were not built to last that long, or even built by hand by most mainstream manufacturers.

From Classic Audio:

What the heck happened in 1980?
The exact date varies from brand to brand, but the bottom fell out of the build quality. Manufacturers sacrificed quality for production speed and started aiming at the 'general' market instead of the 'audiophile' market. Analog tuners were replaced with digital tuners. Discrete output devices were often replaced with integrated circuits, many of which are no longer available today. Some pre-1980 models used integrated circuits, and some post 1980 models were still well built.

Of course some companies found a way to make excellent gear still. Harman Kardon, NAD, Macintosh and others maintained their high standards while other companies jumped into this market, like Adcom, Proton, Carver, etc.

And the Lloyds and Candles of the world made a mockery of once what was good. I've dabbled in vintage gear, I had a Sansui receiver from 1972 that seriously made my jaw drop, it sounded simply better than my flagship Onkyo AVR. The tuner on the thing pulled in stations like crazy, i couldn't believe how good FM sounded, really!! They do not make components like that anymore unless you are willing to spend thousands of dollars. I smile up my sleeve whenever I read a post that claims all amps sound the same.

 

[cptnCanada]

I used to be of the opinion that 70's solid state was the be all and end all of quality solid state stereos. I have had, and still do own many fine examples from that era. I do agree the style of these pieces is still beautiful today, but I have come to the conclusion that the sound quality from these pieces has been left in the dust.

It all started when I picked up a 1989-1991ish Pioneer VSX-D1S (TOTL AV Receiver - NO BPC here) from goodwill with the intent to flip it to buy more 70's gear. I plugged it in and it provided me with sound the 70's beasts just couldn't match. Ever since that day, the 70's stuff just gathers dust. And I have tried many, many times to go back to the 70's stuff but it never seems to last long in the system before the Pioneer get put back in. BTW the 70's stuff I am comparing to HAS been restored.

I would compare it to 70's muscle cars. Beautiful to look at, and spec wise decent power and torque. But any modern performance car will leave them in the rear view mirror.

Its all about nostalgia.

I also agree that there has always been crap produced in every decade. But the solid mid-fi stuff gets better with time.

 

[onwardjames]

I used to be of the opinion that 70's solid state was the be all and end all of quality solid state stereos. I have had, and still do own many fine examples from that era. I do agree the style of these pieces is still beautiful today, but I have come to the conclusion that the sound quality from these pieces has been left in the dust.

It all started when I picked up a 1989-1991ish Pioneer VSX-D1S (TOTL AV Receiver - NO BPC here) from goodwill with the intent to flip it to buy more 70's gear. I plugged it in and it provided me with sound the 70's beasts just couldn't match. Ever since that day, the 70's stuff just gathers dust. And I have tried many, many times to go back to the 70's stuff but it never seems to last long in the system before the Pioneer get put back in. BTW the 70's stuff I am comparing to HAS been restored.

I would compare it to 70's muscle cars. Beautiful to look at, and spec wise decent power and torque. But any modern performance car will leave them in the rear view mirror.

Its all about nostalgia.

I also agree that there has always been crap produced in every decade. But the solid mid-fi stuff gets better with time.

I would be interested in hearing what 70's stuff you have.

I posit that the Pioneer SX-1250 would sound great in any era. Certainly tech has helped us, and I definitely agree with most of what you said, muscle cars indeed, but perhaps you're painting with too broad a brush?

Great post, and carry on, all.

I'm searching for that Pioneer you have. :thmbsp:

 

[cptnCanada]

My 70's gear

Marantz 1180DC
Onkyo TX-4500mkII
Marantz 2225, 2230
Pioneer SX-727
and more I cant think of right now.

These all have a similar sonic signature to each other. Its not bad by any means, just the Pioneer VSX-D1s from 1989 takes it to another level, especially in the tight bass and much more natural high end.

One thing they did do right in the 70's was phono pre's. These definitely went downhill from my experience as time went on. Although I use a separate tube based pre and it smokes even the 70's solid state receiver phono pre's.

 

[just dave]

I would compare it to 70's muscle cars. Beautiful to look at, and spec wise decent power and torque. But any modern performance car will leave them in the rear view mirror.
.

Have fun changing a belt on one of those modern muscle cars.
And I'm gonna have disagree with ya on that last statement.A friend of a friend had a 70 Chevelle SS that he raced and he destroyed a 2013 Hemi Cuda and a 2012 Mustang GT. with only a few mods to the suspension and engine.I'm talkin laps around a racetrack not just a 1/4 mile.

 

[Tromatic]

American's willingness to by crap did in mass-market audio.

 

[onwardjames]

Have fun changing a belt on one of those modern muscle cars.
And I'm gonna have disagree with ya on that last statement.A friend of a friend had a 70 Chevelle SS that he raced and he destroyed a 2013 Hemi Cuda and a 2012 Mustang GT. with only a few mods to the suspension and engine.I'm talkin laps around a racetrack not just a 1/4 mile.

Truly? Wow.

American's willingness to by crap did in mass-market audio.

It is a generalized laziness to research and know good brands from slick marketing.

 

[tybrad]

The industrial design seemed to take a hit as well (to my aesthetic). Much too flashy and robotic/automatic looking. It wasn't all this way, but it did become OK for schlock and tech-aesthetic to become normal.

Compare elegance:

Pioneer SX-1080

Kenwood KR-10003. Yeeeeeeuck. Blech. My opinion, obviously.

 

[bare]

A wee bit more complex yet Basic than what's been claimed IMO.
Demographics.
Heyday in '60's A bit less so in the 70's.
But by the 80's, Boomers had eased back if not outright stopped buying Audio Gear.. 'en Masse'
No (or at least seriously reduced) customer interest had Real effect.
Makers floundered.. Quality/advancements stagnated.
Bit of an upsurge later as Home Theater gear, when Middle aged Boomers "Needed' to watch "Arnold' in Larger than life sound.
Current generation, like My Sons for example are only marginally, if at all, interested in Audio.
No way will they spend large on it. Fairly typical attitude, from My observations.

Similar trends in Motorcycles... follows Audio quite closely IMO:
Fair guess that 'Audio' will die with our generation.

 

[elcoholic]

70's girlfriends became 80's wives and audio didn't make the budget after perms and hair spray.

(cocker spaniel?)

 

[restorer-john]

Sadly, unless you have owned, listened and tested those two amplifiers, you are merely guessing. The A-91D is streets ahead of the SA-9800 in performance, usability, looks, build quality (another 10kg heavier) and on the bench it is able to deliver over twice as much power into low impedances.

I sold my SA-9800 and kept my A-91D, along with an A-717 and A-616. Those are amplifiers that Pioneer never bettered.

If that's the case,how come there's no SQ improvement in a 1989 TOTL Pioneer A-91D reference/Elite digital amplifier compared to their TOTL 1979 SA-9800 ? Also,with inflation taken into account their prices would've been around the same amount (give or take $100).