The beast on the bay!!! TECHNICS SA-1000!!!!

[SoCal Sam]

There are points I can make against it:

1) Groups socialize
2) Group psychosis - Where a single ESTP person can influence an entire group to see their only viewpoint. A "good salesman" so to speak.

So if you want to have a gathering to hear them, that's fantastic! I've done the same, AK Fest CenTex. But you can't make any kind of real judgement or even a valid general consensus.

Taking your points, yes groups tend to socialize. That is inevitable. Not sure what ESTP means but what I think you are referring to is a peer pressure dynamic where strength of personality sways another's opinion. Sort of like a bully leading the group (but talking about our Bully!!).

Other posters in this thread have been confrontational and as a result, are unable to push this debate forward in any meaningful way. Saying things like "Are you scared?" is an easy way out and only reveals more about the poster than the postee. In short, peer pressure is a poor substitute for empirical knowledge. A comparo is meant to address this shortcoming.

If in fact we SoCal members ever put a comparo together, your points will be taken and we will make an effort to guard against peer pressure and bullying. I'm not after a "real judgement or even a valid general consensus" because I think it is a fool's errand to preach. My goal is to present reviews based on empirical knowledge backed up by some sort of admittedly imperfect test methodology.

Lastly, condition of 30 year old gear is always going to be an issue and I agree this levels the playing field. If condition is an issue that makes comparing gear impossible, why would any of us have a preference for one brand over another? Or one model line over another? Does this mean that anyone who says a Marantz sounds better than a Yorx is wrong simply because of age?

 

[vintagestereo]

You guys are 25-30 years too late to have a true shootout, unless someone with deep pockets can bring a set of contenders to spec.

Sorry to rain on your parade, but that’s the facts.

As I mentioned, I used to conduct Monster Receiver shootouts everyday in a controlled showroom with lots of "fresh faces" to do the judging. It was a fun experience at first, but, after awhile, tended to get rather boring since the results were consistently the same. Kinda a like riding "It's a Small World" over and over again. So, that's why I've formed rather strong opinions about the respective merits of some of the gear.

However, I think it would still be fun for people to experience a shootout first hand with a sophisticated switcher like Sam's so they can hear firsthand just how obvious the differences can be, even though the gear is most certainly is less than optimal condition.

 

[vintagestereo]

My most recent post was directed in Badgers's direction, since he actually owns both a SA-1000,and a Concept 16.5, so I'd like to hear what he has to say.

I know that having the 'gift of gab' is important to being a successful salesperson, but there comes a time when it is better to speak with folks who actually own this SA-1000, to get a truer understanding of what it's all about. As luck would have it, Badger appears to also own a Concept 16.5, and can draw understandings, perceptions (based on experience), and observations, which I would very much like to hear coming from him.

Meanwhile, while I wait for Badger to reply, I'll return to the book I'm reading, it's called, "Death of a Salesman"

I take that to mean you're not interested in trading your Concept for my Technics. Oh, well......I tried.

Speaking of reading material, maybe I'll get around to reading an old book that's hopefully still sitting around at the local library: "Psycho". Saw the movie, never read the book.

Just kidding!!

 

[Badger]

My most recent post was directed in Badgers's direction, since he actually owns both a SA-1000,and a Concept 16.5, so I'd like to hear what he has to say.

I know that having the 'gift of gab' is important to being a successful salesperson, but there comes a time when it is better to speak with folks who actually own this SA-1000, to get a truer understanding of what it's all about. As luck would have it, Badger appears to also own a Concept 16.5, and can draw understandings, perceptions (based on experience), and observations, which I would very much like to hear coming from him.

Meanwhile, while I wait for Badger to reply, I'll return to the book I'm reading, it's called, "Death of a Salesman"

Marko, I answered your question in my first post to this thread. I was told my Concept needed servicing, which I said could be possible. I won't belabor the point. All opinions are personal based on multipe variables; state of the receiver, speakers employed, acoustics of the room, personal preferences (strong base, emphasis on midrange, etc.). That's why I never argue with anyone else's view. I have collected most of the TOTL receivers from the period and approx. every 2 weeks, rotate them into my staging area to give them a workout and a listen. Every time, without fail, I hear something new. Right now, I've got my Nikko NR-1415 set up and it is blowing me away. Don't remember it ever sounding so good. I've never found the perfect receiver and hope I never do, I enjoy the search too much. Do I have personal favorites? Yes, and that's what they are; personal.
If anyone wants to come to Winston-Salem for a "shoot out", they will be welcome. Bring your own contenders, or listen to mine over a couple of beers. Form your own opinion. Nobody will be right and nobody will be wrong.

Badger

 

[SoCal Sam]

Marko, I answered your question in my first post to this thread. I was told my Concept needed servicing, which I said could be possible. I won't belabor the point. All opinions are personal based on multipe variables; state of the receiver, speakers employed, acoustics of the room, personal preferences (strong base, emphasis on midrange, etc.). That's why I never argue with anyone else's view. I have collected most of the TOTL receivers from the period and approx. every 2 weeks, rotate them into my staging area to give them a workout and a listen. Every time, without fail, I hear something new. Right now, I've got my Nikko NR-1415 set up and it is blowing me away. Don't remember it ever sounding so good. I've never found the perfect receiver and hope I never do, I enjoy the search too much. Do I have personal favorites? Yes, and that's what they are; personal.
If anyone wants to come to Winston-Salem for a "shoot out", they will be welcome. Bring your own contenders, or listen to mine over a couple of beers. Form your own opinion. Nobody will be right and nobody will be wrong.

Badger

Well said.

 

[vintagestereo]

Do I have personal favorites? Yes, and that's what they are; personal. If anyone wants to come to Winston-Salem for a "shoot out", they will be welcome. Bring your own contenders, or listen to mine over a couple of beers. Form your own opinion. Nobody will be right and nobody will be wrong.
Badger

All good points, Badger. Any chance of getting some nudies of your Big Nikko. That's got to be one of the rarest of all. I've only seen photos. Never heard one, though. I suspect it was engineered by the some of the folks responsible for the Alpha, Beta and Gammas. My Tech used to work for Nikko around that time, perhaps he would know. Anyway, if you're really impressed with it......that impresses me. :yes:

-- Chris

 

[vintagestereo]

Some think gigli is the best movie ever made.

And some think the SA-1000 is the best Receiver ever made. They're entitled to their opinion. :yes:

 

[Badger]

I'll try to get some up, Chris. We need to compare our Lafayette's some time.

 

[vintagestereo]

???

Perhaps I'm just dumb but I listen to a LOT of small speakers on big receivers...and I've read many others posts right here on AK doing the same.

I'm FORCED to listen to a LOT of small speakers on big receivers as well.....NO ROOM!!!!! But, many of the small speakers are surprising good. My goal now is to have each Receiver hooked up to a pair of small speakers and then mix and match for best results. I'm really looking forward to this. :yes:

 

[vintagestereo]

Concept 16.5:
10,000uF/80V
8 power transistors

Technics SA-1000
18,000uF/100V
12 power transistors

Badger -- You have a wealth of information!!! Thank you!!

I know that the SX-1250's four (4) caps are rated at 22,000 uF, but not sure of the voltage. They could be either 85V or 100V. If anyone knows, it would be interesting to find out. I've always considered the SX-1250's power supply to be one of the most robust of all.

 

[vintagestereo]

I'll try to get some up, Chris. We need to compare our Lafayette's some time.

Which Lafayettes do you have, Badger? Unlike the SA-1000, there's very little interest in Lafayettes and that's why I'm drawn to them. Not great by any means, but the 9090 is certainly VERY COMPETITIVE within its power class and is a worthwhile effort. It's one of the few remaining bargains in vintage audio.

However, given all the TOTL Receivers you have, what is your interest in Lafayette? Just curious...... :scratch2:

I also appreciate the fact that you have the Nikko. I've only found one ad for it, 1/4 page in b/w. Very few people even know it existed. You must have an INCREDIBLE collection.

 

[Badger]

Which Lafayettes do you have, Badger? Unlike the SA-1000, there's very little interest in Lafayettes and that's why I'm drawn to them. Not great by any means, but the 9090 is certainly VERY COMPETITIVE within its power class and is a worthwhile effort. It's one of the few remaining bargains in vintage audio.

However, given all the TOTL Receivers you have, what is your interest in Lafayette? Just curious...... :scratch2:

I also appreciate the fact that you have the Nikko. I've only found one ad for it, 1/4 page in b/w. Very few people even know it existed. You must have an INCREDIBLE collection.

I just have the LR-120DB I sent you the service manual on. Some of the house brands have great receivers. One of my favorites is the Realistic STA-2100 of which I have two that I bought non-working and have played around with. They both sound great now. I also have Fisher, Scott, Project-One and Sherwood. Each one has it's own appeal.

 

[vintagestereo]

I just have the LR-120DB I sent you the service manual on. Some of the house brands have great receivers. One of my favorites is the Realistic STA-2100 of which I have two that I bought non-working and have played around with. They both sound great now. I also have Fisher, Scott, Project-One and Sherwood. Each one has it's own appeal.

Badger -- Wow....we have much in common!!!! I'd like to get a Laf 9090 'cuz it's very similar to the Setton RS-660, which it looks like you also have. I'm currently trying to get another RS-660.

I've only got one STA-2100, but it's very nicely made. Has held up very well over the years. SOLID! As for Scott, I'd like to try a 390R....or, better yet, one of the Tube Stereomasters, but I know very little about them. No Project-One. And my only Fishers is the RS-2015. I've being wanting to get the RS-1080, based on yrly's recommendation, but the two up on E-Bay are not appealing.

But, still, how did you get interested in the 120DB?

 

[SoCal Sam]

Badger -- You have a wealth of information!!! Thank you!!

I know that the SX-1250's four (4) caps are rated at 22,000 uF, but not sure of the voltage. They could be either 85V or 100V. If anyone knows, it would be interesting to find out. I've always considered the SX-1250's power supply to be one of the most robust of all.

80v.

 

[vintagestereo]

80v.

Thank you, Mr. Sam!!!

Hmmmm....so, all other things being equal, are four 18,000 uF 100 V Caps better than four 22,000 uF 80 V Caps? :scratch2: If so, the SX-1250 has one heck of a power supply!!

 

[theblackknight]

123456

 

[Carve it]

The Nikko is a bit of a "plain Jane" as far as "Monsters" go, but she is a very fun date none the less.

Been busy for a few days and you guys sure do carry on!

If you are going to have a comparison, you should at least have one pair of speakers that will handle 300 wpc.

 

[Marko]

Marko, I answered your question in my first post to this thread. I was told my Concept needed servicing, which I said could be possible. I won't belabor the point. All opinions are personal based on multipe variables; state of the receiver, speakers employed, acoustics of the room, personal preferences (strong base, emphasis on midrange, etc.). That's why I never argue with anyone else's view. I have collected most of the TOTL receivers from the period and approx. every 2 weeks, rotate them into my staging area to give them a workout and a listen. Every time, without fail, I hear something new. Right now, I've got my Nikko NR-1415 set up and it is blowing me away. Don't remember it ever sounding so good. I've never found the perfect receiver and hope I never do, I enjoy the search too much. Do I have personal favorites? Yes, and that's what they are; personal.
If anyone wants to come to Winston-Salem for a "shoot out", they will be welcome. Bring your own contenders, or listen to mine over a couple of beers. Form your own opinion. Nobody will be right and nobody will be wrong.

Badger

Thanks.

So,........ for curiousity's sake, and because you mentioned it, what are you're personal favorites, and why?

 

[Marko]

I take that to mean you're not interested in trading your Concept for my Technics. Oh, well......I tried.

Indeed.

Instead of lowballing me, try offering me a comparable G-series Sansui, and I just might go for it.

 

[centaurus3200]

wow, what a heated discussion!

I'm a novice at electronics, but i read the specs on the technics. you can make very impressive distortion numbers with a crapload of negative feedback, so lets take distortion out of the equation for now.

i couldn't find how much current the SA-1000 has. but judging that it doesn't double it's power unto 4 ohms and it only as 160 dampening factor, I'd say it's power supply isn't all that robust. you can't get all excited about how much horsepower (wattage) the thing has into 8 ohms, what does it do with regard to more demanding loads. looks like it starts to whimper. a 25 watt BELL class A amp hit like 400 wpc into 1 ohm! now that's some current!

so, i do NOT know much about vintage receivers, but it just seems to me that whereas vintage tube amps, when restored, can hold their own against modern tube gear, you can't really say the same about vintage SS gear.

transistors have improved leaps and bounds over the 1970's variety. my friend is modding my 1984 Quad 405-2. i can only imagine what it would take to modernize all the crap inside one of those monster receivers.

bottom line, I'm not knocking any of you monster receiver cats. i bet these bad boys bring back lots of great memories. but, if i had $1,000+ to blow on an SS amp, it would be a vintage threshold stasis or a krell KSA-100.

see ya,
Robby