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The one watt lie….

peterp1 said:
As far as I can tell, there is no disagreement that amps differ, the disagreement is in your presumption/implication that high-power amps inherently sound better.
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fair criticism. accepted. I would agree; there are no absolutes and I am wrong in that sense.
 
Poultrygeist said:
Zu is prone to exaggerate their sensitivity ratings. Eminence probably gives more accurate ratings of the Legend based guitar drivers used in the Zu line.

My Zu's were not very detailed or refined but may have sounded better with a powerful solid state amp. I sold the Zu's after I started building open baffles.
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I had a similar experience in that flea watt didnt really bring them to life, or at least their full potential. I was using both powerful SS and tube amps in the end and enjoyed them either way.
 
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6.5CM said:
fair criticism. accepted. I would agree; there are no absolutes and I am wrong in that sense.
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I have to agree that unless you can afford something like a pair of Klipsch's new Jubilee for 35.000 dollars having only a few watts isn't going to work. Most SET amps aren't very linear either and thats another big drawback. I will admit how ever that my HT system with 95 db sensitivity speakers most of the time 2 watts is all I use, but there are occasional very short peaks pushing 10 watts. The 90 db line arrays most of the time its around 3 to 6 watts with 12 watt peaks. But its not unusual for the center channel of the HT system seeing 50 watt peaks for tech movies and the Stereo pushing 60 watts with direct to disc recordings along with Telarc and Reference Recording CD and LP's. Classical recordings can easily have over 50 db dynamic range and great Jazz albums can too. Pop recordings with less than 10 db dynamic range really are a tedious. .
 
twiiii said:
I have to agree that unless you can afford something like a pair of Klipsch's new Jubilee for 35.000 dollars having only a few watts isn't going to work. Most SET amps aren't very linear either and thats another big drawback. I will admit how ever that my HT system with 95 db sensitivity speakers most of the time 2 watts is all I use, but there are occasional very short peaks pushing 10 watts. The 90 db line arrays most of the time its around 3 to 6 watts with 12 watt peaks. But its not unusual for the center channel of the HT system seeing 50 watt peaks for tech movies and the Stereo pushing 60 watts with direct to disc recordings along with Telarc and Reference Recording CD and LP's. Classical recordings can easily have over 50 db dynamic range and great Jazz albums can too. Pop recordings with less than 10 db dynamic range really are a tedious. .
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:boring:
 
6.5CM said:
I had a similar experience in that flea watt didnt really bring them to life, or at least their full potential. I was using both powerful SS and tube amps in the end and enjoyed them either way.
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Sadly with my Zu Omens there wasn't that much to bring to life. Didn't realize what "life like speakers" sounded like until I built these. The main FR drivers were SET powered while the woofers were SS powered.

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Beatnik said:
Wouldn't an open baffle result in much less "feel" since there's no cabinet to help the drivers parameters ? Is there an open baffle sub out there ?
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These are H-frame OB subs. They won't plumb the depths or artificially load the room ( visceral impact ) but are much more accurate than box subs. They require high Qts woofers designed to move air in free space.

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Beatnik said:
Wouldn't an open baffle result in much less "feel" since there's no cabinet to help the drivers parameters ? Is there an open baffle sub out there ?
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It is a little different, but depending on whether EQ is used or not the driver parameters take these things into account.
Yes, there are OB subs out there.
 
asilker said:
I'm kind of moving in the same direction. Looking at lower efficiency, more modern speaker builds. Wondering how low I can go with only 25 watts. Also sniffing around Tube Lab schematics and wondering if I can build up around a KT120 like the amp you talked about above.
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I’m not sure how low you can go but my 24 wpc tube monos will drive my 87db speakers to club levels in a medium size room.
 
62caddy said:
You continue to inject variables into the equation to make your point. What part of "all other things equal" do you not understand?
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But they never are.

First off, how do you define a "1-watt" amp? Is that an amp specified to drive 1 watt into 8 ohms, or based on your reasoning (pipe dream?), is it 1 watt into any load at any phase angle because this will vary with speaker type and frequency.

And it is certainly possible that a "1-watt" amp has trouble with a 2 ohm load at a high phase angle because it was designed for an 8 ohm load and doesn't produce enough current to even drive 2 ohms. Whereas, an amp that makes beaucoup watts would be designed to push a much higher current and could handle the 2 ohm load at 1 watt without complaint.
 
Ahhhh... the old "current" thing again. The problem with that interjection isn't that amps don't have different capabilities. Obviously they do, it really should go without mention.

Rather, the fly in that type of argument is if the amp produces 1W into any given load then it does have all the current necessary at that load. And, if it doesn't have enough current then it's not going to be 1 watt either.

So, either it's a watt or it's not.
 
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whoaru99 said:
Talk about all over the board...


Ahhhh... the old "current" thing again. The problem with that interjection isn't that amps don't have different capabilities. Obviously they do, it really should go without mention.

Rather, the fly in that type of argument is if the amp produces 1W into any given load then it does have all the current necessary at that load. And, if it doesn't have enough current then it's not going to be 1 watt either.
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thats really a limited take on the dynamic between an amp, a speaker and music.

if youre amplifying a flat 1khz signal, you’d be right. If the music playing requires 3/4 watts to play strings at a moderate level; and the track ends in a crescendo with the entire orchestra to include some tympani drums and a gong, a 1 watt amp will compress in an attempt to keep up. A good 50 watt amp will allow it to achieve higher peaks, experience enhanced transients without distortion and with better control compared to a 1 watt amp.

i dont know about you, but my music isnt a static load, specially now with hi-res streaming further increasing demands on systems due to their range.

I still enjoy testing with the 1812 overture produced by Telarc. I challenge a good 3 watt amp to tackle that, and then compare it to a stout 50 watt amp on say a Klipsch Cornwall at 84 db average SPL. Tell me what happens when the canons fire in the end. That Decware may just crap out lol

Where is my mind by the Pixies. Right after the intro, when the snare and the kick drum comes in; that chit awesome when reproduced effortlessly.

Many other examples where music transforms by having just that much more energy to back it up. More emotion; more weight and more fun.
 
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whoaru99 said:
Talk about all over the board...


So, either it's a watt or it's not.
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Which is why we get back to the definition of a "1-watt" amp.

Are you asking about an impossibility (i.e., drive any load from a short circuit to infinite resistance at any frequency from DC to megaHertz, to 1 watt)?
 
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