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The Original 10" ESS AMT1 Full Restoration, Alnico Re-cone. Heil Restoration.

The thing about the Heil is it will change in response, and in sound with the slightest change is implementation or position. One room will quiet litteraly make the Heil respond far diffrent than another room would. Specifically the upper midrange. The Heil excels in this area more than any driver I've heared, but if you have them spaced incorrectly or don't give them enouphe air to breathe on the rear. The upper midrange begans to break apart very quickly. The original issue was the dip/disconnect in the transition with the low midrange woofer, and transition to the Heil. The new woofer solved the issue. That was a really common complaint with the ESS AMTs earlier woofers. The true measured response of a correctly implemented Heil does not show an upper midrange dip. Nor can I hear it on my speakers. The AMT1S are the most difficult speaker to place, I have ever laid my hands on. I had to use a measured out string to align the speakers in the room, and to keep a perfectly balance image due to their speed. Reflect onto the rear walls, then onto the damping blanket. The Heil is a strange beast, and gets directly effected by the woofer its crossed with.

My Heils have no peaks nor dips. They have a nice flat response and when the mid is added there is a downward trending curve that is very smooth in the seated position. More tweaking since the pics made them even smoother, the dip between 250 and 1.6 KHz has been rounded out and the bass has been fixed, though the room reflections and floor bounce are still evident. Maybe I'll get some new pics. You won't hear any peaks here and I would rather have a drop out than a peak.

DSC_000910.JPG


A change to round out the bass. I determined that there is too much energy from ~250 - 1kHz and this has now been flattened with the downward trend starting earlier. Again, this was a couple itterations ago now.

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I’m seeing a pair of these used and neglected near me for $350 ... pockets itching ... I know they would require work and I don’t have the experience and tools that some of you fellows have.
roadieINTL: First, Welome to AK. Remember, the AMT 1 has 3 components. The Heil, a crossover and one woofer. The Heil diaphragm is super simple to replace and they are easy to buy, The crossover will be held in by probably 2 screws and can be sent to ESS for a rebuild. Elsewhere in this thread, you have already seen that the woofer can be sent to ESS for a rebuild. In most cases, the Heil does not have to undergo the extensive rebuild that the OP did. I would say go for this.
 
I’m going for it!
Thanks for the welcome

(I’ve been lurking for a while)

Glad to be a member, fingers crossed I score these AMT and get to restore them.

-Andy
 
Current state of the crossovers for the Ethyl Mermans with the Heil used as a "tweeter."

Not very conventional, but very effective. The UHF circuit gives the Heil the "sizzle" on the steak that I've come to like from the JBL 077/2405 tweeters. Recognize this is designed to be used with the diffraction lenses I made which remove the high frequency peak.

ScreenHunter_249_Jun_27_12_34.jpg
 
I’m going for it!
Thanks for the welcome

(I’ve been lurking for a while)

Glad to be a member, fingers crossed I score these AMT and get to restore them.

-Andy
Well, good deal Andy! If you get them, be sure to post some acquisition pics. Lots of people will help you with ideas on how to restore them and enhance them if you wish. I have 2 pair of AMT 1's in my collection. They will never go anywhere.
 
roadieINTL: First, Welome to AK. Remember, the AMT 1 has 3 components. The Heil, a crossover and one woofer. The Heil diaphragm is super simple to replace and they are easy to buy, The crossover will be held in by probably 2 screws and can be sent to ESS for a rebuild. Elsewhere in this thread, you have already seen that the woofer can be sent to ESS for a rebuild. In most cases, the Heil does not have to undergo the extensive rebuild that the OP did. I would say go for this.
Yes, I had the Cabs gutted down to a shell when I was clamping, sealing, and painting. The Heil either works, or it does not. I did the rebuild because of the error on the waveguide. Peice of mind due to the old brittle epoxy, and it gave me the chance to fully clean the Heils to brand new condition. It's not needed at all in most cases. You can usually just leave them as is. The crossover in my particular AMT1s are all Hq film capictors. There is no need to rebuild the crossover in mine. ESS loved to source various components due to pricing and availability at the time. Some AMTs contain Electrolytic, and some don't. Most AMTs will contain slightly diffrent components. But the resulting sound, and function is the same if working properly.

Another sound demo aswell I'm full of them today! haha
 
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There is NOTHING like an Air Motion Transformer, but I'd pit the Rock Monitors with their "transition driver" any day against one of the two ways. Rick needs to take advantage of the modern day crop of buttery-smooth full rangers and develop the "Rock Monitor Nuevo."

View attachment 1908603
Mundorf and Jantzen Superior Z caps installed.......
 
Current state of the crossovers for the Ethyl Mermans with the Heil used as a "tweeter."

Not very conventional, but very effective. The UHF circuit gives the Heil the "sizzle" on the steak that I've come to like from the JBL 077/2405 tweeters. Recognize this is designed to be used with the diffraction lenses I made which remove the high frequency peak.

ScreenHunter_249_Jun_27_12_34.jpg
Pure crap!!
My Mojo AMT3's of any carnation will blow these nonsensical , peak freak, crapped up, measured to the hilt-musicality squeezed out of completely pieces of Eythal Merman blaspheme junk! Keep that crap out of these ESS Heil forums-we are all tired up your (so called) perfect measuring Heils!:beatnik:
JBL transducers!?!:bs:
Please hang out in the Klipsch Community-we don't need your crap here!:jump:
Put that in your pipe-and blow it out your Heil lying ears!!
 
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Pure crap!!
My Mojo AMT3's of any carnation will blow these nonsensical , peak freak, crapped up, measured to the hilt-musicality squeezed out of completely pieces of Eythal Merman blaspheme junk! Keep that crap out of these ESS Heil forums-we are all tired up your (so called) perfect measuring Heils!:beatnik:
JBL transducers!?!:bs:
Please hang out in the Klipsch Community-we don't need your crap here!:jump:
Put that in your pipe-and blow it out your Heil lying ears!!

OK..., this is not blocked. Let me hear yours do it. :rolleyes: This is CD direct through a Yamaha receiver with no eq or processing of any type and I expect the same on your part.

 
OK..., this is not blocked. Let me hear yours do it. :rolleyes: This is CD direct through a Yamaha receiver with no eq or processing of any type and I expect the same on your part.

Really=you think replaying a reproduction over the internet is a accurate way of confirming your findings!?
Really?
Huh-must be something else in that pie smoke...
I don't think that would even begin to be a valid comparison....
Look-I'm happy for you and your speakers-and glad you enjoying them, don't get me wrong..
Glad you appreciate the Great Heil- that’s awesome.
At the same time-I stand behind my Mojo mods AMT3's, and past post, and threads.
I spent years helping others here and many threads, and posts...I certainly don't see the same on your part, but that's not really important.
I also have learned over the years a one size fit's all approach in audio isn't ideal.
If your ever in these parts- haul 'em down and we can have a real, and much more valid comparison.
And maybe some better driving equipment then a Yamaha receiver....
That way you can listen to something really being played, in person, as it should be, instead of merely being played...sorry about that....
Sorry to the OP as well.. awesome project!!! Great job!:)
 
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Really=you think replaying a reproduction over the internet is a accurate way of confirming your findings!?
Really?
Huh-must be something else in that pie smoke...

I think it is a way to determine what a fairly flat frequency response sounds like. And I can certainly hear peaks and the effects of nulls in the hundreds of vidios of peoples systems that I've watched. I guess maybe you can't? :dunno:

I should have known you would chicken out.

I'm going to dedicate this one to you. To quote GD70 "Sounds excellent! Front row seats right here!" (I consider this to be about the highest complement that can be paid to any system.)

It has already gotten 5 "likes" just since last evening, so just maybe I'm doing something right. (Let's see how many "likes" your video gets. Oh right, you're afraid to do one, possibly for fear of being ridiculed? :idea:)

 
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Really=you think replaying a reproduction over the internet is a accurate way of confirming your findings!?
Really?

I did measurements on mine.

For your viewing pleasure. This what appears to be an original Great Heil with an impedience of ~3.6-3.7 ohms. This version was used in the AMT1Ds.

For this test, I ran a 4 ohm Mills resistor (can't get any better than that) and a 10 mfd vintage 220 volt Sprague capacitor with a measureed value of 10.10 mfd in series with the Heil. Assuming the Heil at 3.6 ohms, this represents a first order Butterworth with a crossover frequency of ~2,090 Hz.

Pink noise and 61-band RTA are from a Behringer DEQ2496 measured using the Behringer ECM8000 mic. The mic was set on axis with the Heil at a distance of 50 inches, as used by Audiophile Magazine for their on axis measurements. The dotted lines represent divisions of 2.5 dB. The entire scale spans 15 dB. Ignore the lower woofer spectrum and the mid is turned off. WYSIWYG!

So using a ~2KHz crossover the response spans 10 dB from ~2.5KHz (+-5 dB)

DSC_00145.JPG


But!!! When I add my own concept/design diffraction lens the span is reduced to ~+-3 dB :naughty:

Now your "discerning" ear may prefer that 10KHz peak because it brings out air and cymbols, making you think you have the superior set-up. But the measurements don't lie and to me the peak is annoying and unnatural. :no:

BTW, I cross mine over at ~4kHz and use the crossover to fill in the slight detent between 6.5 and 12kHz, so I use the "flat" portion of the curve in my design with a span of +-<1 dB.

DSC_00162.JPG
 
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I did measurements on mine.

For your viewing pleasure. This what appears to be an original Great Heil with an impedience of ~3.6-3.7 ohms. This version was used in the AMT1Ds.

For this test, I ran a 4 ohm Mills resistor (can't get any better than that) and a 10 mfd vintage 220 volt Sprague capacitor with a measureed value of 10.10 mfd in series with the Heil. Assuming the Heil at 3.6 ohms, this represents a first order Butterworth with a crossover frequency of ~2,090 Hz.

Pink noise and 61-band RTA are from a Behringer DEQ2496 measured using the Behringer ECM8000 mic. The mic was set on axis with the Heil at a distance of 50 inches, as used by Audiophile Magazine for their on axis measurements. The dotted lines represent divisions of 2.5 dB. The entire scale spans 15 dB. Ignore the lower woofer spectrum and the mid is turned off. WYSIWYG!

So using a ~2KHz crossover the response spans 10 dB from ~2.5KHz (+-5 dB)

DSC_00145.JPG


But!!! When I add my own concept/design diffraction lens the span is reduced to ~+-3 dB :naughty:

Now your "discerning" ear may prefer that 10KHz peak because it brings out air and cymbols, making you think you have the superior set-up. But the measurements don't lie and to me the peak is annoying and unnatural. :no:

BTW, I cross mine over at ~4kHz and use the crossover to fill in the slight detent between 6.5 and 12kHz, so I use the "flat" portion of the curve in my design with a span of +-<1 dB.

DSC_00162.JPG
I’m glad you’re happy for the likes, that means little to me just like anything on Facebook or anything else.
Has little to do with chickening out.
I’m not interested in wasting my time on this type of experiment, sorry. as mentioned bring your speakers over to my place and will have a listen I have no problem with that.
You can bring a video camera and document everything and post on your Facebook page or here I could care less
Then you could build on your treasure trove of likes and trophy points. as that seems to be important to you
Sorry, I’m not basing any sort of decision like this and what I hear transmitted over the Internet.
Im glad you can hear valleys and peaks in response over a internet connection.. I’m skeptical, but I guess I’ll take your word for it I’m not going that far for my own ears.
The proof on my AMT3 mods I have here is other members that have followed the threads I posted on the 3’s in the past, and we’re very happy with the end results. Good enough for this cat.
I’ve had plenty of experience with Audio over the years including extensive experience with the AMT3 speakers as I mention and I know what I like and I know what I don’t like.
As mentioned I stand behind those threads... Plenty of people have benefited it from them regardless of whether they put a like on there or not
I have a number of audiophile friends with very expensive systems and they certainly appreciate what I have here
I have no clue on if I’d like your speakers better than mine. It not really important IMHO.
I’m not interested in building your set up, I like what I have. I used a existing design and really moved the sound forward in a positive direction, making them true full rangers with clean and powerful sub 30hz bass.
And frankly audio, specifically as a hobby, has a lot more to do than with flat measurements, likes @ AK, etc.
I’ve certainly had more then one experience with speakers that measured ruler flat, and I wasn’t interested in their sound I thought they sounded boring, and unnmusical.
That was what I was trying to imply earlier on my comment on measurements.
Obsessing oneself-and tooting their horn about achieving a nice flat response doesn't automatically translate into a good sounding speaker. Internet transmitted-face to face-or otherwise.
It's admirable on your part the extent you went-good job-impressive.
And as the last post mentioned none of this debate between us is doing the original thread any help.
Like or no likes!
Thanks
 
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Hi everyone. I have not posted in quiet a while and have been unbelievably lucky and have found tons of amazing finds for cheap. I was on Craigslist 4-5 months back, and saw these old speakers ive never seen before for $150. Little did I know, this cheap purchase would completely end my search for speakers. They simply destroy everything I have ever heared. Martin Logan's, doesn't matter. Never in my life could I be prepared for how good these would sound after the recone.

I got them home, the cabinets where splitting a little bit at the corner seams. The Heil was slightly rusted on the surface, but all the drivers where perfectly preserved. The early Teflon Diaphragms where in perfect shape, and so where the woofers. I gutted the cabinets, glued, and clamped all the seams down with 8+ bar clamps. Then I masked out the pyramid and painted it satin black. One of the Heils had a manufacturing error, Few extra wave guides where thrown into a stack on a tweeter. I removed the putty, and the diaphragm. And tapped around the Heil with a rubber screw driver. Within seconds it broke at the seams into 2x halves. I pried up the stack which was very difficult, uncrimped the delicate, thin aluminum rod crimped on either end. Removed the plates 1x1. Then re-stacked them correctly. Since there where a few extra plates, this gave me some extra wiggle room to re-crimp the aluminum rod. Using a vice, and crimper, I crimped it until it matched the other stack in tightness and size. I reinstalled it into its location, and the Magnet violently ripped it into place, and smashing my fingers between the guides!!:no: So after that incident, I restored the plates using a 3M pad. Look brand new now! Due to the Heil breaking apart so easily, I didnt trust the Old Epoxy, so I decided to replace the Epoxy on the other Heil as well. So I purposely broke the other Heil, and reglued it using bar Clamps, strong feet, and Strong epoxy. Scraped the old glue off when a razor blade. The Diaphragms putty was old and crumbled after removal. I am currently using Blutak to hold each end of the diaphragms place at either end of the Heil, it worked a treat!

I called ESS because I some some questions about my speakers, as I heared they are very helpful. I called, it starting ringing, and a very nice man named Rick answered. Little did I know I was speaking to the CEO of this fantastic company. No front end, no automated "information" line. If you call, you will be talking to the CEO. He answered all my questions. Apparently my diaphragms are made of Teflon, not Mylar like the new ones. and that there is no need to replace with the new replacements as there is no difference in sound. He could have sold them to me and lied, but instead, he said, (if they are working, don't replace them) An amazing trust from ME to ESS Laboratory's is instantly obtained from this. All I can say is the way Rick runs this company is amazing, in terms of the care for the customer, people, and personal, warm way he speakes with you.
He also stated that ESS is like "Burger king" "Have it your way" you send us whatever parts you want, and we rebuilt it and bring it to our current standards. AMAZING!

I wanted to replace the woofers in my AMTs, as the original Alnico cones where pretty poor, worn, and the spider was sagging immensely. He said the new ESS woofers don't work with the early 10inch AMTs, and that they are a different woofer and voice coil entirely. He said if I want the best possible sound, which I've found to be true, to send my Alnico woofers into them, they would remove the Magnet, demagnetize, and then re-magnitized it. And completely recone the woofer using a really nice voice coil and cone specifically made for the AMT1. I got my invoice, paid the $200 flat fee, and they where on there way.
They arrived in their OEM 10inch woofer boxes. It was like unboxing a brand new pair of woofers. The cone is a beautiful paper pulp purple color that I really dig. My AMTs are now like bass cannons when they need to be, the low midrange transition has improved to pure and utter perfection. The transition to the Heil is flawless. Incredibly impact full sounding bass. Doing a sweep, audible down to 30hz with little variation is volume until it drops off. A smaller room drops at about 40HZ. Extremely accurate woofers, but not too boomy or overpowering to the Heils transition. They are incredibly fast. When a low bass note hits them, there is no sense of hesitation next to the Heil.

I also asked why they don't make the 3x way AMT3 Rock Monitors. Its because the newer cones are perfectly capable of delivering those frequencies in a timely matter. The diffrence would be pointless and negligible. But only if the Heil is implemented correctly with the woofer. An ESS AMT exhibiting this issue will have a lower midrange gap, and as if there are 2x separate sources of sound. The larger, vintage 12inch models inherently have this issue more often as the woofer is simply larger. I have tried all the woofers I have seen recommended on forums, ect. and none of them seemed to integrate with the Heil to the perfection the ESS woofer did. I have a ESS Professional Eclipse 2242 Electronic Crossover and Have experimented with a midrange cabinet, lots of different woofers. The best sound I got from these was everything set to flat, the Heil crossed at factory 700hz crossover with the Reconed Alnico, crossover knob set to normal.
You do not want a woofer that is too powerful, or goes to high, as it seems to take away from the Heil. These reconed woofers are truly the only ones I've tried that blended perfectly with the Heil, lots and lots of very fast, impactfull, accurate bass detail. Not boomy, and not too weak. Not too extensive in the mids. Everything is precisely where it should be! There was an obvious break in period. Seems after only a few hours of working them out, the bass extended lower, and the spider/surround felt less stiff. Great! After a few months of music, they now extend even deeper. I use damping in the center of the wall to reflect rear reflection into the center of the room. I had to align the speakers perfectly in the room. Even a few cm off messes with the sound due to their speed.

To this day, they are the best speakers I have ever heard, or owned, period! I will cherish them for the rest of my life, and pass them onto someone that will take care of them, even though I'm young. These speakers are revelations that will never be competed with. Completely within there own category of transparency.

Here are a few SOUND DEMOS

Before
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After Full Restoration!
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Fabulous work on these, and they sound fabulous!
 
I like my first gen AMT1's, but they simply don't hold a candle to my Focal. I do think they destroy the vast majority of the typical box speakers a lot of people gloat about. I've been thinking of getting rid of mine though. I rarely ever use mine. I did pretty much the same restoration described above and the look good.
 
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