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The P-Mount owners club

Yep. This is where I'd start as well. I don't have those particular carts, but I do have a couple of Pickering XL-33Us (Stereohedron), and they're two of my finest sounding cartridges.
So I managed to put off some other pressing tasks yesterday to indulge in some quick comparisons of some of my cartridges and styli on my Technics SL-7. (The rest of the listening chain is a restored Sansui AU-555A amp (with the "Leestereo" mods) into Yamaha NS-670 speakers, with the amp's tone controls set to flat and Loudness off.)

I used as a test disc my copy of Carly Simon's "Torch" from 1981 or thereabouts. It's a secondhand disc in G-VG (not mint) and with a few crackles even after repeated cleaning. I thought the first two tracks on side 2 ("Hurt" and "From the Heart") would be a reasonable test, containing some quite sharp sibilants from Ms Simon on some of her "ss"' and "ts" as well as her lovely range from deep and warm to soaring high, and with the instrumentation ranging from quiet spare piano to bluesy sax over some heavily syrupy strings in parts.

The AT81CP that I've used for the past few months with the ATN3472SE elliptical stylus, which has <50 hours on it, gives these tracks a good lively rendition but the sibilance is downright painful to me on a few points in those songs and has me fearing for the Yammies' tweeters.

I wanted to start my listening with the Pickerings but could not get their output pins on any of them to engage with the inlets on the end of the SL-7's stubby little tonearm. Hmm. Frustration. Suggestions anyone?

So I thought I'd try what would likely be the most modest of the carts, the Shure Realistic RXT6, and "work upwards" from there. The RXT6 cart slid straight on with no problems. To my surprise, with a bit of careful use of the left-right free play in the tonearm, I was able to fit the standard RXT6 stylus, although its outer edge when "parked" was very close to the inner edge of the SL-7's lid.

After a few tests runs with that, I tried the RXT6 cart with the N97LT hyperelliptical stylus which is supposedly NOS NIB but unverified, and I don't have suitable magnification to check its stylus. I then had a little bit of remaining time to try low-miles Ortofon OMP10 combo, which also fitted reasonably easily albeit not quite as smoothly as the AT and Shure carts.

My listening notes, with the AT81/AN3472SE combo as my baseline:

RXT6 cart/stylus (bonded elliptical, unknown hours, run with the brush up): nice warm rendition of the test songs with little to no sizzling sibilance on the "hot spots" but also notably less detail, separation and space than the AT81/AN3472SE. The strings were more distant and somewhat muddy and with much less bite on the opening edge of notes from both the sax and Ms Simon. Might be rather worn diamond, perhaps? The SL-7 arm tracked and returned to park OK, despite the extra width of the Shure stylus brush carrier. Good to know I may not be limited to brushless Shure styli...

RXT6 cart/N97LT stylus (bonded hyperelliptical, no brush, unknown hours but appears NIB or near new): some warmth and richness, much clearer definition and space than the RXT6 stylus and nicely warmer than the AT combo but hello sibilance, my old friend, you've come to distract me once again (with apologies to another notable Simon), albeit not as piercing as from the AT and possibly I could live with it - need to try some other records with this combo to hear how it renders an LP with fewer sizzles.

Ortofon OMP10 cart with original Stylus 10 (bonded elliptical, low miles): Clean, neutral, very "straight down the line" but not overly engaging, either. Gave more detail and clarity than the Shures. Seems to have most (but maybe not all?) of the clarity and depth/width of the AT81/AN3472SE combo with just a bit more warmth. It zinged on the sibilants more noticeably than either of the Shure styli but not as harshly as the AT. I need to give this one a lot more time and some different records to get a more memorable sense of what it does. I suspect it will be good to listen to in longer sessions, even if it's a bit underwhelming in a short rushed trial on just a couple of tracks from one LP. The N97LT may have been a little better in parts than the OMP10 but that may be my bias from the knowledge that the Shure's hyperelliptical diamond should perform a little better than the Ortofon's elliptical.

I haven't got to try the ADC or the A-T LS580/LT yet, nor tried the Goldring replacement elliptical stylus for the original Technics P202. I need to try again to fit the frustrating Pickerings but I am being careful not to break a pin on them. The Sumiko Blue Point #1 HOMC has been stuck in eBay International Shipping for ages - hope it arrives soon.

Further updates to come when I get time to resume playing around with this.

Cheers, Rob
 
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So I managed to put off some other pressing tasks yesterday to indulge in some quick comparisons of some of my cartridges and styli on my Technics SL-7. (The rest of the listening chain is a restored Sansui AU-555A amp (with the "Leestereo" mods) into Yamaha NS-670 speakers, with the amp's tone controls set to flat and Loudness off.)

I used as a test disc my copy of Carly Simon's "Torch" from 1981 or thereabouts. It's a secondhand disc in G-VG (not mint) and with a few crackles even after repeated cleaning. I thought the first two tracks on side 2 ("Hurt" and "From the Heart") would be a reasonable test, containing some quite sharp sibilants from Ms Simon on some of her "ss"' and "ts" as well as her lovely range from deep and warm to soaring high, and with the instrumentation ranging from quiet spare piano to bluesy sax over some heavily syrupy strings in parts.

The AT81CP that I've used for the past few months with the ATN3472SE elliptical stylus, which has <50 hours on it, gives these tracks a good lively rendition but the sibilance is downright painful to me on a few points in those songs and has me fearing for the Yammies' tweeters.

I wanted to start my listening with the Pickerings but could not get their output pins on any of them to engage with the inlets on the end of the SL-7's stubby little tonearm. Hmm. Frustration. Suggestions anyone?

So I thought I'd try what would likely be the most modest of the carts, the Shure Realistic RXT6, and "work upwards" from there. The RXT6 cart slid straight on with no problems. To my surprise, with a bit of careful use of the left-right free play in the tonearm, I was able to fit the standard RXT6 stylus, although its outer edge when "parked" was very close to the inner edge of the SL-7's lid.

After a few tests runs with that, I tried the RXT6 cart with the N97LT hyperelliptical stylus which is supposedly NOS NIB but unverified, and I don't have suitable magnification to check its stylus. I then had a little bit of remaining time to try low-miles Ortofon OMP10 combo, which also fitted reasonably easily albeit not quite as smoothly as the AT and Shure carts.

My listening notes, with the AT81/AN3472SE combo as my baseline:

RXT6 cart/stylus (bonded elliptical, unknown hours, run with the brush up): nice warm rendition of the test songs with little to no sizzling sibilance on the "hot spots" but also notably less detail, separation and space than the AT81/AN3472SE. The strings were more distant and somewhat muddy and with much less bite on the opening edge of notes from both the sax and Ms Simon. Might be rather worn diamond, perhaps? The SL-7 arm tracked and returned to park OK, despite the extra width of the Shure stylus brush carrier. Good to know I may not be limited to brushless Shure styli...

RXT6 cart/N97LT stylus (bonded hyperelliptical, no brush, unknown hours but appears NIB or near new): some warmth and richness, much clearer definition and space than the RXT6 stylus and nicely warmer than the AT combo but hello sibilance, my old friend, you've come to distract me once again (with apologies to another notable Simon), albeit not as piercing as from the AT and possibly I could live with it - need to try some other records with this combo to hear how it renders an LP with fewer sizzles.

Ortofon OMP10 cart with original Stylus 10 (bonded elliptical, low miles): Clean, neutral, very "straight down the line" but not overly engaging, either. Gave more detail and clarity than the Shures. Seems to have most (but maybe not all?) of the clarity and depth/width of the AT81/AN3472SE combo with just a bit more warmth. It zinged on the sibilants more noticeably than either of the Shure styli but not as harshly as the AT. I need to give this one a lot more time and some different records to get a more memorable sense of what it does. I suspect it will be good to listen to in longer sessions, even if it's a bit underwhelming in a short rushed trial on just a couple of tracks from one LP. The N97LT may have been a little better in parts than the OMP10 but that may be my bias from the knowledge that the Shure's hyperelliptical diamond should perform a little better than the Ortofon's elliptical.

I haven't got to try the ADC or the A-T LS580/LT yet, nor tried the Goldring replacement elliptical stylus for the original Technics P202. I need to try again to fit the frustrating Pickerings but I am being careful not to break a pin on them. The Sumiko Blue Point #1 HOMC has been stuck in eBay International Shipping for ages - hope it arrives soon.

Further updates to come when I get time to resume playing around with this.

Cheers, Rob
If you liked the OMP/10 combo...you should invest in obtaining a 30 stylus. That will make your system really worth the effort. OMP/30 combo is the closest to the Pickering/Stanton soundstage in my experience. I use Pickering/Stanton carts on my Dual 1009 & 1019. AT 155 and Ortofon OM carts on my Dual 1229s.

The Pickering TL-3 & Stanton L747S carts sound great as well on 1229s!
 
If you liked the OMP/10 combo...you should invest in obtaining a 30 stylus. That will make your system really worth the effort. OMP/30 combo is the closest to the Pickering/Stanton soundstage in my experience. I use Pickering/Stanton carts on my Dual 1009 & 1019. AT 155 and Ortofon OM carts on my Dual 1229s.

The Pickering TL-3 & Stanton L747S carts sound great as well on 1229s!
Thanks ArDrakho. Interesting to read of your experience, and I don't recall reading a comparison of the OM30 with Pickering/Stanton previously. It's a bit too early yet to say I "like" the OMP10 combo... I didn't dislike it, and it's probably a very good all-rounder for a wide variety of material, but I need to give all of these more time and comparison, if only I can get the Pesky Pickerings mounted in the SL-7! :dunno:
It will be many months before my budget has recovered sufficiently to buy another stylus for the OMP, and I have lots of others to listen to in the meantime. If and when I do shop for another OM stylus, I will probably target the Stylus 20 (nude elliptical I think?) as an affordable step up for that cart, whereas the 30 is a BIG jump in price. I respect what you're suggesting, but it seems there is a bit of experience out there that the 20 stylus is probably the sweet spot of performance / price trade-off for the OM range? Cheers & thanks again, Rob
 
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I've been following this with great interest.
I too have a Technics SL-7 (I feel like it does not get much respect).
I scored a NOS Stanton L747S from a fellow AK'er and it has really upped the sound from this TT. I have a Sony PS-X600 with a HOMC cart, and a JVC QL-Y5F with a LOMC cart and it is just as great sounding as either of those.
Just a different flavor as a comparison
 
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im starting to really love the technics sl-qx-300 p mount tables. ive got two of them set up in my system (one with a shure v15vp and the other with an audio technica 155lc/u) and ive got to admit they hold their own with everything else i have set up. ive currently got a technics sl-1600mk2,17000mk2,1300mk2,sl-1200mk5,denon dp47f and kenwood kd500/sme3009 and the qx-300's sound great. they are really well isolated and tapping on the plinth is much less resonant than the sl-1200. the 1200 and the dp-47f have the most hollow resonant trails out of all of them. the auto features sound a little clunky compared to the 1600mk2 and 1700mk2 but honestly the 1300mk2 does as well.

i really only picked them up because ive been collecting old carts for a while and i bought some pmount stuff without a table to use them on. ive got the 155lc/u body with a couple 152lp styli, a few v15vp styli and a couple bodies, shure m97lt with a couple styli, a 96lt and hand full of the solid core audio technica p mount carts. i not a moving coil guy so i could probably be pretty happy with just the p mount tables. the modern cart options stink, but if youre into ebay hunting like i am, theres a ton of stuff that can be had cheap. worst case scenario you use the modern audio technica styli on an old audio technica body if you can adjust vtf.

i paid less for both qx-300's than i did for any one of my other tables except for the dp47f that was left outdoors, internally covered with mold and had the cables cut. theryre really fun to just listen to music with and step away from tweaking on vta/azimuth/alignment options etc.
 
Small update on my journey for @ArDrakho , @wualta , @lini and other folks who kindly offered their suggestions and experience to help me on my P-mount journey....
I played a few more records with the Ortofon OMP10 on the SL-7 that I compared back-to-back to the same LP on my Dual 1219 running the Audio-Technica VM95ML. While the silence of the SL-7 is notable against the background whir of the Dual (even with a new idler wheel), the AT nude microline really shows up the limitations of the bonded elliptical of the Ortofon. The latter is good, just a bit too nice middle of road, whereas the AT-on-Dual combo pulls some real drive and excitement out of Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers' "Moanin'" 180g reissue. So I put the Shure Realistic RXT6 back in the SL-7 to see how it handles Art and co. Well, the RXT6 definitely yields less crispness and extension at top and bottom ends than the AT ML but I do experience a nice slightly warmer balance of the RXT6 over the OMP10 that I feel suits Blakey, et al, better than the OMP10. The Ortofon is definitely better suited than the RXT6 to orchestral classical music, however, where the RXT6 muddies the strings etc a bit by comparison.
I will try make some time soon to try the N97LT stylus on the RXT6 cart with the jazz.
These are purely subjective impressions with styli of unknown wear, of course.
And I need to get my P-mount Pickerings into circulation eventually, too. Then there's the ADC PSX-30 and the A-T LS580/LT to try... And the Sumiko Blue Point 1 HOMC finally arrived after sitting in eBay / DHL International shipping for way too long....
Cheers and thanks
Rob
 
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Technis SL-BD3 with original cartridge (Technics P30) and a replacement stylus. Works great, in frequent use.
 
Can anyone recommend an upgraded stylus for an AT-LT111? The choices in the AT line are mind-boggling.

Is that an SL-5 or SL-6 - or in other words, one of the models, that still feature the tracking force (fine-)adjustment (+/- 0,25 g)? Then you could still consider the recently discontinued VMN40ML, if you'd like a considerable upgrade - 'cause with the higher weight compared to the regular AT102P family needles the tracking force will be within the suggested range. Whereas I'd deem the current AT-VMN40xML less suitable due to the reduced compliance (dynamic: 10 -> 7, static: 40 -> 20).

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini
 
Is that an SL-5 or SL-6 - or in other words, one of the models, that still feature the tracking force (fine-)adjustment (+/- 0,25 g)? Then you could still consider the recently discontinued VMN40ML, if you'd like a considerable upgrade - 'cause with the higher weight compared to the regular AT102P family needles the tracking force will be within the suggested range. Whereas I'd deem the current AT-VMN40xML less suitable due to the reduced compliance (dynamic: 10 -> 7, static: 40 -> 20).

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini
Yes it's an SL-5 and the tracking force can go to 1.5g. Thanks!
 
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