The Quantum Mid Dome, Who Done It?

[tubed]

I don't think I've ever come across any real documentation as to who really did manufacture the Quantum mid dome driver.
For some reason I used to believe a German subsidiary of Peerless.
Some throw out Braun and ADS.
I doubt those guys had anything to do with any Infinity drivers.
We do know the Infinity always had an affiliation with Philips which wasn't in West Germany but seemed to have a relationship with Grundig Elec. of Germany.
In fact Philips did eventually buy out Grundig.
Grundig did produce many soft dome drivers and this one looks most like what the Quantum mid turned out to become:scratch2:
Scroll down and view the two pics in the Ebay ad

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Grundig-191...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

 

[tubed]

Here's a link to an Ebay ad with pics depicting exterior tinsel wires designed really close to how the Quantum wires were designed:
http://www.befr.ebay.be/itm/TWEETER...-ou-BOX-500-/201418754012?hash=item2ee57e47dc

 

[loquatious]

being discussed in this current thread;


http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=676550


i think evidence points to braun.




.

 

[tubed]

being discussed in this current thread;


http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=676550


i think evidence points to braun.




.

This thread is about the possible origin of the Quantum soft dome.

In the other thread the Braun soft dome you reference
was never used in any Infinity speaker.
I think you believe it was used in the Monitor IIa?
It's not the same driver used in my IIa, actually not even close.:scratch2:

 

[loquatious]

i dunno, in the photo below the image on the left is coastsider's monitor jr mid. center image is his monitor IIa mid (which is labeled west germany, and is just like my monitor IIa mid), and the image on the right is the german mid parts express sold and has verified came from braun stock they bought out. if it looks like a duck…


the reason the other thread was brought up in relation to the quantum mids is the tech sheets for the monitor jr and the quantums both use the same 902-0206 part number and description of a 1.5" mid. the monitor IIa tech sheet also has the same description of a 1.5" mid but gives no part number, only to use 902-0206 as a substitute.


in searching google i can find no grundig mid that looks like any of the mids infinity used. and unless i'm missing something, the ones you reference in your links also do not look like any of the mids infinity used.







.

 

[tubed]

i dunno, in the photo below the image on the left is coastsider's monitor jr mid. center image is his monitor IIa mid (which is labeled west germany, and is just like my monitor IIa mid), and the image on the right is the german mid parts express sold and has verified came from braun stock they bought out. if it looks like a duck…


the reason the other thread was brought up in relation to the quantum mids is the tech sheets for the monitor jr and the quantums both use the same 902-0206 part number and description of a 1.5" mid. the monitor IIa tech sheet also has the same description of a 1.5" mid but gives no part number, only to use 902-0206 as a substitute.


in searching google i can find no grundig mid that looks like any of the mids infinity used. and unless i'm missing something, the ones you reference in your links also do not look like any of the mids infinity used.







.

I still don't see where Braun has been actually positively identified as the manufacturer.
It's seems like conjecture.

Loq, perhaps you and others could indulge me and scroll down to the bottom of the ebay link I provided and tell me that the backside of that Grundig mid doesn't look exactly like the Infinity.
Same plastic flange, same size magnet and the same type of wire terminals.

 

[loquatious]

the grundig mounting plate is not an exact match at all. all the infinity dome mids i've seen had slotted mounting holes in the corners, not round ones. the cast-in bracing on the mounting plate also doesn't match. also, the phillips head screws the ebay ad pics are slightly different size/style than all the examples i've seen on the "infinity" mids. whereas, the phillips head screws on all the examples posted above do match.

the pics below show your grundig example on the far left, coastsider's monitor IIa pics in the middle. on the far right the braun mid from parts express. i have spoken to parts express and had them verify the mids they had for sale were sourced from braun. the parts express braun mounting plate is a much closer match for coastsider's infinity mid (and mine) than the grundig.





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[Coastsider]

i dunno, in the photo below the image on the left is coastsider's monitor jr mid. center image is his monitor IIa mid (which is labeled west germany, and is just like my monitor IIa mid), and the image on the right is the german mid parts express sold and has verified came from braun stock they bought out. if it looks like a duck…

Given that my broken spare Monitor IIa dome mid driver is currently inbound to Millersound for repair, I have asked that while it is in their possession opinions be solicited from their tech staff as to it's possible origin of manufacture and passed along to me just for the sake of argument.

 

[tubed]

the grundig mounting plate is not an exact match at all. all the infinity dome mids i've seen had slotted mounting holes in the corners, not round ones. the cast-in bracing on the mounting plate also doesn't match. also, the phillips head screws the ebay ad pics are slightly different size/style than all the examples i've seen on the "infinity" mids. whereas, the phillips head screws on all the examples posted above do match.

the pics below show your grundig example on the far left, coastsider's monitor IIa pics in the middle. on the far right the braun mid from parts express. i have spoken to parts express and had them verify the mids they had for sale were sourced from braun. the parts express braun mounting plate is a much closer match for coastsider's infinity mid (and mine) than the grundig.








.

Granted it's not exact, but the Grundig is a closer match in looks and materials to those pictured than any Braun mid I have or had, imo.

 

[loquatious]

if the mounting plate of the image on the far left (grundig), looks more like the two center images ("infinity"), than the image on the right (braun) to you, i respectfully have to question your eye sight. at any rate believe whatever you want. i can see this is leading nowhere. we had this same discussion last year when everybody was saying the mids were peerless.



.

 

[Coastsider]

Freely admitting that I am in the Braun camp when it comes to my opinion of Infinity's source for the Monitor IIa dome midrange driver I find it interesting as an aficionado of mid-70's Infinity speakers, that when Infinity decided to essentially replicate the Monitor IIa in a console form factor with the 2000II, the one substitution they made in the driver compliment was replacing the dome midrange with a Peerless KO40 paper cone driver. This might argue that sourcing the midrange and tweeter, which I think we can all agree is a Peerless, from the same manufacturer was more cost effective. Of course this also leads to the question as to why Infinity would return to Braun (again my opinion) for the multitude of dome mids used throughout the Quantum series which followed the mid-70's models. My personal opinion is that the KO40 is a superior driver, used in such well regarded speakers as the Gale 401, and probably more expensive and speculate that given the sheer numbers of mid-range drivers required, especially for the larger Quantums, sticking with the Brauns might have been in that instance more cost effective. It might also be the case that the dome midrange was more appropriate to the design demands of the Quantums to which the KO40 did not lend itself.

Of course I also might be completely full of it and just making stuff up as I go along but what the heck, it makes for an interesting discussion.

 

[sregor]

Nobody mentions the fact that in the mid 70's both peerless and infinity (and KLH) were owned by EAD ,,,,

 

[tubed]

Respectfully I think you twisted what I said as there really is no proof the Parts Express replacement was actually a Braun.

Just as I was told in 1990 by Infinity customer service that the Quantum mid was supplied by Peerless.

I agree this is going nowhere especially with nothing but conjecture and heresay
You also may believe what you'd like.

 

[tubed]

if the mounting plate of the image on the far left (grundig), looks more like the two center images ("infinity"), than the image on the right (braun) to you, i respectfully have to question your eye sight. at any rate believe whatever you want. i can see this is leading nowhere. we had this same discussion last year when everybody was saying the mids were peerless.



.

You stated "on the other thread, Post 17" that Infinity used Braun drivers such as this one you displayed, by simply peeling off the Braun tag.

Respectfully, simply not true as Infinity never used this driver.

http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/deta...ers2also-used-in-ads-speakers/images/1017629/

 

[tubed]

Freely admitting that I am in the Braun camp when it comes to my opinion of Infinity's source for the Monitor IIa dome midrange driver I find it interesting as an aficionado of mid-70's Infinity speakers, that when Infinity decided to essentially replicate the Monitor IIa in a console form factor with the 2000II, the one substitution they made in the driver compliment was replacing the dome midrange with a Peerless KO40 paper cone driver. This might argue that sourcing the midrange and tweeter, which I think we can all agree is a Peerless, from the same manufacturer was more cost effective. Of course this also leads to the question as to why Infinity would return to Braun (again my opinion) for the multitude of dome mids used throughout the Quantum series which followed the mid-70's models. My personal opinion is that the KO40 is a superior driver, used in such well regarded speakers as the Gale 401, and probably more expensive and speculate that given the sheer numbers of mid-range drivers required, especially for the larger Quantums, sticking with the Brauns might have been in that instance more cost effective. It might also be the case that the dome midrange was more appropriate to the design demands of the Quantums to which the KO40 did not lend itself.

Of course I also might be completely full of it and just making stuff up as I go along but what the heck, it makes for an interesting discussion.

I'm also making this up as I go as I have no idea which company actually manufactured the Quantum mid even as I was told by Infinity it was Peerless.
Thus the thread.
I'm pretty sure that I shouldn't care however I do find it mildly interesting how people fall into "camps" plus the fact Braun mids don't really look like Quantums

 

[Ken Boyd]

I can add to the confusion, and to the possibility that Infinity might have used more than one source, just as they did with the dual voice coil bass driver. A few years back I ordered some parts for my Quantum's from Harman and using the part numbers from their parts cat I was sent brand new mid domes, and they were not like the ones on my old speakers or like the ones sold by Parts express as close outs, They were like the first picture posted by Tube where the tinsel wire was not exposed but behind the front plate and they had a rough texture to the surface. They also had some brand new EMIT diaphrams that they dug out from somewhere!

 

[tubed]

I can add to the confusion, and to the possibility that Infinity might have used more than one source, just as they did with the dual voice coil bass driver. A few years back I ordered some parts for my Quantum's from Harman and using the part numbers from their parts cat I was sent brand new mid domes, and they were not like the ones on my old speakers or like the ones sold by Parts express as close outs, They were like the first picture posted by Tube where the tinsel wire was not exposed but behind the front plate and they had a rough texture to the surface. They also had some brand new EMIT diaphrams that they dug out from somewhere!

No doubt Infinity outsourced stuff.
I experienced the same thing, Ken when I went around the block to the Infinity factory to pick up a mid replacement for my then Q4s.
Whereby the customer service guy informed me that the "Peerless" Quantum mids were replaced by Audax soft domes.
It worked out fine even though it looked a little odd.
My Q2s employ four Audax mids and sound wonderful, if they are in fact "Audex"

 

[Coastsider]

I can add to the confusion, and to the possibility that Infinity might have used more than one source, just as they did with the dual voice coil bass driver. A few years back I ordered some parts for my Quantum's from Harman and using the part numbers from their parts cat I was sent brand new mid domes, and they were not like the ones on my old speakers or like the ones sold by Parts express as close outs, They were like the first picture posted by Tube where the tinsel wire was not exposed but behind the front plate and they had a rough texture to the surface. They also had some brand new EMIT diaphrams that they dug out from somewhere!

I wouldn't assume that in recent years Harman has any particular interest or feels compelled to provide OEM (as in pre-Harman Infinity) replacement drivers, especially given that most if not all are probably no longer in production by whatever manufacturer originally supplied them and so just selects and catalogs something without regard to the OEM that will fit and spec out close to the original driver. As far as the EMIT diaphragms go, I think you got lucky.

I've just always used ebay for spares and/or replacements for the drivers in my collection of Infinity's and never, mistakenly or not, considered contacting Harman as a source.

 

[Coastsider]

Response from Millersound re: Infinity dome mids

Given that my broken spare Monitor IIa dome mid driver is currently inbound to Millersound for repair, I have asked that while it is in their possession opinions be solicited from their tech staff as to it's possible origin of manufacture and passed along to me just for the sake of argument.

Here is the email I sent along with the photo of my Monitor IIa and Jr drivers that was posted by loquatious with the Parts Express driver cropped out:

"If possible while you have that driver, if I might inquire as to the opinion of your tech staff regarding the manufacturer from whom it was sourced by Infinity as well as the similar slightly smaller driver that Infinity used in it's Quantum series shown in the attached photo to it's left."

This morning I received this reply:

"These drivers were supplied by Braun (ADS offered the drivers in the US).

ALL later Infinity drivers were made by Tonegen of Japan. Any Infinity, Bose, JBL, AR, NHT and countless other brands, all used Tonegen. They are considered the Honda of drivers and overall the most dependable ever made. Precision manufactured and beautifully engineered. Moderately priced too. Any driver with TN on the back is Tonegin. It will be followed by another letter and number. For example: TNG9005 (this one’s not a real number)"

This is the first mention I've ever seen of Tonegen and the statement that all later Infinity drivers were sourced from them kind of set me back on my heels so I Googled "Tonegen speakers".

From a site called Audiotools.com on their "Defunct Companies" page.

"Tonegen Co., Ltd

Japanese loudspeaker manufacturer based in the city of Osaka in Kansai, primarily occupied as an OEM manufacturer of loudspeaker drivers and as such you will more often find their products branded as Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), JBL, JVC so on and so forth, than with the company name itself on the second hand market. The company is best known for their high end woofers and ribbon tweeters and were in their time considered one of the best volume driver manufacturer in the world, but is should be kept in mind that they made products to spec so that in between quality stuff they manufactured budget drivers for concerns such as Bolivar Speaker Works and Radio Shack. The company was taken over by Foster Electric Company in 1986 but they continued to use the Tonegen name for a few years afterwards but have since closed the original factory, the R&D division in Osaka still exists (or did so until recently) and is sometimes referred to as Tonegen colloquially.

The company also had a USA based subsidiary called Culver-Tonegen that operated mostly as a sales office but they did contribute to custom designs of speakers and drivers for their USA customers, after the Foster takeover they were known as Foster-Culver. BTW the name of the company is often misspelled Tonigen."

So, more grist for the mill.

I would warrant that Millersound sees more drivers of every conceivable size, shape, and description than most if not all of us will in our lifetimes and so place a substantial amount of faith in the response I received from them, and that's all I have to say about that.

 

[tubed]

Here is the email I sent along....

This morning I received this reply:

"These drivers were supplied by Braun (ADS offered the drivers in the US).


So, more grist for the mill.

I can understand Braun supplying the "Made in W.Germany" mids if they did indeed manufacture them,
but could you please explain why New England based ADS would "offer" the Infinity Quantum mid?:scratch2:

EDIT: I know why that would be, because ADS acquired Braun

Yes, I understand how one would value the opinion of Millersound custom service.
I've talked to Bill a couple times, or I should say he talked to me as I think he loves to chat