• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

The Sad Fate of Direct Drive Turntables...

dnewma04 said:
John, I agree with you 100%. Everyone may have their favorites and gravitate towards them, but I'd never dismiss a product for falling into a certain category of turntable. When I first got into speaker building, I learned as much as I could, but came to conclusions of what I would consider best and have found over the years that experience works in funny ways. A small amount of experience can form general guidelines for subjective preferences but it can also create biases that are tough to get past. However, as you expand your experiences, and you are lucky enough to keep an open mind, experience almost inevitably leads to the realization that just about every approach has it's own strengths and execution becomes the difference maker. I feel a little sorry for people who decide that past experiences are a reliable predictor of future events rather than a very general guideline as they could be missing out on something special.
Click to expand...

You've described my time in the hobby pretty well...I've only been really into it for 3 or 4 years, but I've owned my share of different things in that time and I think I've learned the most by those items that have flew in the face of assumptions I held (and I used to hold more than I do now...I was proven wrong too many times). These days, I think the single most important thing to have, the one thing that will lead to the most surprising and satisfying sound, is an open mind.
 
jdwk said:
Actually, its Definitely true of the SP series of turntables. thats why I stopped thinking about putting money into mine. I had two, one worked and the other one needed a chip MN 6042. with out that chip working, the turntable was no good. there are no substitues for this chip and all the other chips that are XX 6042 are not the same chip and will not work. About 20% of the sp series has already developed this problem, even if you find the chips now, lets say you got lucky...they are old too, and may have already failed. this is an age related problem. Technics holds the patent on that chip and will not relaease info on how to manufacture one. Id still have an SP turntable if this werent true. All of the propritary chips for a sl 1200 are still available, and probably will be for some time. I have no belt drive turntables to sell you.
Click to expand...

Wow, you are right! I was just looking at Victors (TT-101/81/71) and thought this whole argument was a little overblown, but those Technics use custom ICs to a MUCH greater extent. Replacing just one with discrete components is still possible, but much more complicated and with a bigger footprint. Even the TT-101 uses primarily discrete components and generic ICs (although there are probably 3 times the electronics on a TT-101 as on a TT-81 let alone a TT-71). Alot of the extra circuitry for both the Technics and the Victor TT-101 is for digital pitch and/or speed indication. Without that, they would be much simpler (e.g. TT-81). [Still, this is not like its microprocessor controlled stuff. It is just companies replacing discrete components with combo ICs.]
 
my point was MHO , but my understanding for years has been that DD's biggest plus is speed accuracy : and Ive never seen any Data to support the idea that it is extremely important (or in the case of my personal choice : important enough to justify the complexity0
 
JohnVF said:
Why does everyone have to generalize everything into camps? Why can't there be good examples of more than one type of drive system? Variety is the spice of life. And it's not too shabby in the music room, either.
Click to expand...

Works pretty well in dating, too. :D
 
Interesting thread as always Arkay. not sure i could ever become comfortable with my TT spinning 24/7 although a friend once he turns his thorens on for a listening session he stops his belt drive with his hand changes the record and drops the needle. he has done that for years even though one would think its going to kill the motor. The gentleman also just sounds like a good businessman.
 
Twenty20Man said:
Interesting thread as always Arkay. not sure i could ever become comfortable with my TT spinning 24/7 although a friend once he turns his thorens on for a listening session he stops his belt drive with his hand changes the record and drops the needle. he has done that for years even though one would think its going to kill the motor. The gentleman also just sounds like a good businessman.
Click to expand...


Is his Thorens one of the ones with a sub-platter driven by the belt, and a lighter aluminum top platter? I suspect if there is enough slippage (not too much friction) between them, you might be able to do what your friend does, without harming the motor or burning up any belts. But I wouldn't want to even try it, myself, not without some kind of lifting system like the one on the TD124. :no:
 
mhardy6647 said:
Simple solution -- chips have no place in a turntable that's "built for the ages". AC synchronous motor (or a washing machine motor) and belt or rim (idler) drive gets the job done.

There is such a thing as too much technology...

:-)
Click to expand...

Interesting old thread that "popped up" while searching for DD info prior to a purchase and it changed my mind.

I play around with SS stuff and realized that technology is very fragile, like it breaks easily and some parts are hard/impossible to find. :tears:

I'm going to stick with my old idlers. Let's see now, this year, for my Zero 100, I'm going to boil the idler for awhile in hot water, treat it with some brake fluid, dry it out and reinstall. Should be good for another few years.:yes: :D :music: Peace. Regards.
 
Interesting thread. One option if my Denon DP-55K dies is to find an SL-1200MKII with a trashed arm and mount my Souther SLA-3 on it if I stay DD.
 
Arkay said:
Is his Thorens one of the ones with a sub-platter driven by the belt, and a lighter aluminum top platter? I suspect if there is enough slippage (not too much friction) between them, you might be able to do what your friend does, without harming the motor or burning up any belts. But I wouldn't want to even try it, myself, not without some kind of lifting system like the one on the TD124. :no:
Click to expand...
All the while realizing this is an old thread.... I often lift an LP off the table on my TD-125 without stopping it, just turn it over and place it squarely back on side 2 or whatever. Maybe the gentleman in question doesn't actually stop the platter, just does what I do and lifts the disc off and replaces it?
 
Arkay said:
While we were talking, another man came in looking for a Technics SP-10 or SP-12 Mk II or MK III (I forget which), and Tommy said that he no longer carried them! This surprised me, because I remember seeing several pass through his shop within the last year or two. To my surprise, he said he had stopped carrying them recently because the critical motor- and speed-control ICs were no longer available [i.e., they have become --HORRORS!-- "unobtanium"], so once these parts break down, the TTs cannot be repaired.
Click to expand...

I wonder if anyone here smarter than me could explain if this guy really found a solution for us, SP-10 lovers:

http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/phpBB2/...stdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=sp10&start=0
 
so this seems to say that there IS a modern equivalent to the MN6024 chip???? man that would be great i hope someone who can answer this question can find out....
 
the website in the OP has some amazing photos! I wish there was a store close to me that had, or even knew anything about turntables of that caliber. Thanks for posting Arkay.... 6 years ago!
 
This original thread has been discussed on several other forums over the years.

As an adjunct to the SP-10 references, the Victor TT-101 table utilizing ic speed control components have been sourced from a member on Agon.

That said these particular ic,s have not been found to be the issue when age related
problems arise.

And thats a good thing since most other problems are fixable.
 
I have always liked the Technics linear tracking turntables. I believe these rely heavily on IC(s) for their fully automatic operation. I have already seen the ICs for sale on eBay selling for unobtanium prices...

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
 
yabai said:
I have always liked the Technics linear tracking turntables. I believe these rely heavily on IC(s) for their fully automatic operation. I have already seen the ICs for sale on eBay selling for unobtanium prices...

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

The upside is that these chips rarely fail.
 
A well-made chip that isn't abused by other components getting out of spec or being hit with big power spikes should last almost indefinitely I'd think. I've never had one go bad in any component, ever. No?
 
I had an SL-7 that started to do weird things like suddenly pick up the tonearm and return to the start. This was a long time ago (not sure where that TT ended up). I always suspected the IC was beginning to go. Despite an ocassional hickup, it worked well. As I recall, it was pretty beat up.

My SL-6 hasn't been abused so I hope it lasts a long time (or at least until I buy an SL-10!).
 
I wonder if this is what's happening to my Hitatchi HT-550.
After I play it for about an hour it will start wavering in speed slightly.Really irritating. Then I'll run it at 45rpm for a while and it seems to clear it up for another 30min. or so. I have cleaned the pots inside that control the speed but it didn't help much.I was wondering if this could be the chip [IC] thats at fault or do you think recapping would solve the problem.I really like this table,It's very elegant looking and plays fine when it plays.Just put a new shure 97 cart in it as well.
Any Ideas?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom