Thinking about MC cartridges

[cafe latte]

From the images I have seen it looks like the coils and frame are well done with the Denon. The body is not exceptional, and some folks think the diamnond can be approved. While others like the presentation of a conical. Its interesting. Hotrodding one isn't terribly expensive and I suspect you get a good cartridge for the money.

Speaking of conicals. I have the Charisma Audio Charm in for a listen. A new cartridge with a modest but good body, and a low impedance coil assembly. Looks quite promising.

I find the conical more noisy in thr groove, and the Micro Ridge more detailed of course.
I think it would be interesting to swap the coils into a new frame which is not plastic and a new body too.
The frame is good but it could be a lot better. Thus sort of mod is much more specialised.

 

[Pio1980]

From the images I have seen it looks like the coils and frame are well done with the Denon. The body is not exceptional, and some folks think the diamnond can be approved. While others like the presentation of a conical. Its interesting. Hotrodding one isn't terribly expensive and I suspect you get a good cartridge for the money.

Speaking of conicals. I have the Charisma Audio Charm in for a listen. A new cartridge with a modest but good body, and a low impedance coil assembly. Looks quite promising.

My impression has been that the OEM Denon stones are top quality and well mounted. No doubt a naked microridge would be a tracing improvement over a spherical or elliptical tip.

 

[cafe latte]

My impression has been that the OEM Denon stones are top quality and well mounted. No doubt a naked microridge would be a tracing improvement over a spherical or elliptical tip.

The boron with Micro Ridge is lovely on the denon.
I feel a lot can be squeezed from them mod wise.
Chris

 

[AvFan]

Between 6 and 15 ohms?

Sorry for the confusion. No, the loading I'm using is between approximately 6x and 15x the carts impedance. I never dipped down below 6x. The cart I'm using is a Shelter 501II with an internal impedance of 12ohms and the final calculated loads using my switch were 80ohms, 98ohms, 117ohms, 145ohms and 173ohms. This is pretty granular loading and that is why I was surprised that I thought I could hear a change in volume between these loads. This also may be why on certain records I perceive changes in the high frequencies between loadings.

Yeah, wasn’t responding to your post,

My apologies.

 

[adnick]

Sorry for the confusion. No, the loading I'm using is between approximately 6x and 15x the carts impedance. I never dipped down below 6x. The cart I'm using is a Shelter 501II with an internal impedance of 12ohms and the final calculated loads using my switch were 80ohms, 98ohms, 117ohms, 145ohms and 173ohms. This is pretty granular loading and that is why I was surprised that I thought I could hear a change in volume between these loads. This also may be why on certain records I perceive changes in the high frequencies between loadings.


My apologies.

No need, didn’t take it in any way that needs an apology, just didn’t want you to think I was referring to your comments..


Andy

 

[mkane]

First, a good LOMC can be had under $300, a decent phono pre to support one with loading options can be purchased for under $100. Sure you can spend the price of a new car for a LOMC but it's not necessary for great sound.

As for someone smashing their Denon DL-301MKII due to a broken cantilever, it's easy enough to have one re-tipped. . Had Joseph retip my Denon DL-301 and it's superb on my Kenwood KD-770D.

I have quite an array of ball peen hammers from small to big. A new 301MkII isn't that expensive. You should have seen what I did to my last handheld phone and it cost a heck of lot more than a 301.

 

[AvFan]

I have quite an array of ball peen hammers from small to big. A new 301MkII isn't that expensive. You should have seen what I did to my last handheld phone and it cost a heck of lot more than a 301.

You do to uncooperative electronics what we all just think about doing.

 

[Mister Pig]

You do to uncooperative electronics what we all just think about doing.

When you have an uncooperative piece of electronics you put it in the center of the room and then bring the rest of the electronics into the room. You beat the first piece like a dirty rug as an example to the other electronics of what will happen if they choose to misbehave.

 

[mkane]

There's a Citation II upstairs that's been behaving badly and somehow, it's managed to avoid the crusher.

 

[Mr. Iv]

Whatever you do, just make sure the cartridge compliance is a good match to your arm. If you've not evaluated the resonance frequency of your arm, try the resonance freq evaluator on VE - start there first and see what sort of compliance to look for in a cart. You can find the effective mass of most arms by asking Google. Plug that value into the calculator on VE, then figure out what the mass of the cart you are interested in. Once you do that, you'll see the best range of compliance down the table. Aim for the green values in the table.

I have found the MM that makes me happiest is a Grace F-9. By far, the best MM I have ever heard. But, I almost never have a MM on my arm.

What is VE? Is there a link to the calculator? Thanks.

 

[tabarddn51]

Hi, VE is Vinyl Engine, but a better cartridge Compliance calculator can be found here

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjvhp76k5WLAxXaTGwGHRKBExkQFnoECAwQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fkorfaudio.com%2Fcalculator&usg=AOvVaw3PW80fE-0XtHSHSWo2yfHu&opi=89978449

Cheers

 

[Mr. Iv]

Hi, VE is Vinyl Engine, but a better cartridge Compliance calculator can be found here

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjvhp76k5WLAxXaTGwGHRKBExkQFnoECAwQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fkorfaudio.com%2Fcalculator&usg=AOvVaw3PW80fE-0XtHSHSWo2yfHu&opi=89978449

Cheers

Thank you.

 

[radiokom]

You can use this:

Tonearm mass and cartridge compliance​

The resonance frequency can be calculated by using the formula: F = 1000 : (2 x π x √ (M x C))
F - Cartridge resonance frequency in Hz

π - 3.14159265359...

C - Cartridge compliance lateral in µm/mN

M - Total tonearm system mass, which is the sum of the Mass of the cartridge, mass of the headshell and screws, and the Effective mass of the tonearm (all values in grams).

• Resonance frequency within 7-12 Hz is optimal for the system.
• Resonance frequency slightly outside the optimal interval 6.5-7 Hz and 12-14 Hz can be considered an option that might be used without problems.
• Resonance frequency outside the interval 6.5-7 Hz and 12-14 Hz is questionable, and the system might not work properly.

Find the Best Cartridge | Ortofon Turntable Cartridge Guide

Discover the best cartridge for your turntable with Ortofon’s expert guide. Find top recommendations for precise, high-quality sound.

ortofon.com

 

[AvFan]

You can use this:

Tonearm mass and cartridge compliance​

The resonance frequency can be calculated by using the formula: F = 1000 : (2 x π x √ (M x C))
F - Cartridge resonance frequency in Hz

π - 3.14159265359...

C - Cartridge compliance lateral in µm/mN

M - Total tonearm system mass, which is the sum of the Mass of the cartridge, mass of the headshell and screws, and the Effective mass of the tonearm (all values in grams).

• Resonance frequency within 7-12 Hz is optimal for the system.
• Resonance frequency slightly outside the optimal interval 6.5-7 Hz and 12-14 Hz can be considered an option that might be used without problems.
• Resonance frequency outside the interval 6.5-7 Hz and 12-14 Hz is questionable, and the system might not work properly.

Find the Best Cartridge | Ortofon Turntable Cartridge Guide

Discover the best cartridge for your turntable with Ortofon’s expert guide. Find top recommendations for precise, high-quality sound.

ortofon.com

Just note that "C" in the equation above is the dynamically determined compliance at 10Hz. Some cartridges are spec'd dynamically at 100Hz (most Japanese cartridges) while others use a static method to establish compliance (e.g. Dynavector). They are not the same numbers.

 

[Mr. Iv]

Hi, VE is Vinyl Engine, but a better cartridge Compliance calculator can be found here

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjvhp76k5WLAxXaTGwGHRKBExkQFnoECAwQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fkorfaudio.com%2Fcalculator&usg=AOvVaw3PW80fE-0XtHSHSWo2yfHu&opi=89978449

Cheers

I looked at the specs of my Fluance 85n and no category called compliance. How do I get that number so I can use the calculator?

 

[radiokom]

I looked at the specs of my Fluance 85n and no category called compliance. How do I get that number so I can use the calculator?

Fluance 85n is turntable. Compliance is for your cartridge so look at cartridge specifications to get C.

In accordance with manufacturer specifications tonearm effective mass (before cartridge mounting) is 21.1 g. Add headshell weight (original 9g) and cartridge weight (for example 6,5g look at cartridge specs) and you get 36,6 g. what is total tonearm system mass M (if you want be super precise add weight of cartridge mounting screws but it not so important).

​

 

[Mr. Iv]

You can use this:

Tonearm mass and cartridge compliance​

The resonance frequency can be calculated by using the formula: F = 1000 : (2 x π x √ (M x C))
F - Cartridge resonance frequency in Hz

π - 3.14159265359...

C - Cartridge compliance lateral in µm/mN

M - Total tonearm system mass, which is the sum of the Mass of the cartridge, mass of the headshell and screws, and the Effective mass of the tonearm (all values in grams).

• Resonance frequency within 7-12 Hz is optimal for the system.
• Resonance frequency slightly outside the optimal interval 6.5-7 Hz and 12-14 Hz can be considered an option that might be used without problems.
• Resonance frequency outside the interval 6.5-7 Hz and 12-14 Hz is questionable, and the system might not work properly.

Find the Best Cartridge | Ortofon Turntable Cartridge Guide

Discover the best cartridge for your turntable with Ortofon’s expert guide. Find top recommendations for precise, high-quality sound.

ortofon.com

Thanks. I got through law school but that formula is beyond me!! What is that little "check" mark (2 times pie times check mark times m times c). Then there's the issue of the colon . . .

 

[radiokom]

Thanks. I got through law school but that formula is beyond me!! What is that little "check" mark (2 times pie times check mark times m times c). Then there's the issue of the colon . . .

square root

Square root - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Not as complicated

Square Root Calculator | Mathway

Free square root calculator - step-by-step solutions to help calculate the square root of the radical expression.

www.mathway.com

Remember order of operations:

The Order of Operations in Math — A Kid-Friendly Guide

Check out our complete, easy-to-follow guide to the order of operations in math, with definitions, illustrated examples, and engaging practice activities.

www.mathnasium.com

 

[Mr. Iv]

square root

Square root - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Not as complicated

Square Root Calculator | Mathway

Free square root calculator - step-by-step solutions to help calculate the square root of the radical expression.

www.mathway.com

Remember order of operations:

The Order of Operations in Math — A Kid-Friendly Guide

Check out our complete, easy-to-follow guide to the order of operations in math, with definitions, illustrated examples, and engaging practice activities.

www.mathnasium.com

I will take a look, thank you. My GED never prepared me for this!

 

[Mr. Iv]

You can use this:

Tonearm mass and cartridge compliance​

The resonance frequency can be calculated by using the formula: F = 1000 : (2 x π x √ (M x C))
F - Cartridge resonance frequency in Hz

π - 3.14159265359...

C - Cartridge compliance lateral in µm/mN

M - Total tonearm system mass, which is the sum of the Mass of the cartridge, mass of the headshell and screws, and the Effective mass of the tonearm (all values in grams).

• Resonance frequency within 7-12 Hz is optimal for the system.
• Resonance frequency slightly outside the optimal interval 6.5-7 Hz and 12-14 Hz can be considered an option that might be used without problems.
• Resonance frequency outside the interval 6.5-7 Hz and 12-14 Hz is questionable, and the system might not work properly.

Find the Best Cartridge | Ortofon Turntable Cartridge Guide

Discover the best cartridge for your turntable with Ortofon’s expert guide. Find top recommendations for precise, high-quality sound.

ortofon.com

sq root of m times c TIMES pie doubled