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Thinking about MC cartridges

Btw, the OP hasn't been seen for a while but just to answer his question about mc compatibility with his amp, he has three options.
1) Get a step-up transformer to use with the mm input of his amp.
2) Get an mc headamp to use with the mm input of his amp. Headamps, also known as pre-preamps, are pretty rare but I make one.
https://www.analogueseduction.net/phono-stages-phono-boards/ROTHMCHEAD2.html
3) Get an outboard phonostage which is mc compatible to use with a line input on the amp. Prices range from very cheap to stratospheric.
 
Look back through the posts, my first recommendation is a used DL 103 retip with elliptical stylus and a Denon AU 320, one can source both for under $500 ( I have both for just over $400)

There’s even less expensive Denon SUTs that do a good job with the “standard 103” and there’s cheap Stromberg Carlson transformers that do a decent job for 1/3 of what RCA MI 12399 or CineMags, Hashimotos cost.

My original 103/SUT recommendation is key, and is my continually recommended...

However for those who want to experiment, and have the curiosity & funds ;) it’s interesting, fun and satisfying.

Also have a collection of different MC SUTs and preamps, and I was completely surprised at the difference the Altec Peerless made in presentation on my system.

Is it just coloring is a specific section of the spectrum, maybe so but wow, so far it’s fine coloring inside the lines of my system(s) :rflmao:


As always with respect to others,

Andy
 
Blewpernt said:
Separation is entirely dependent on the coil and cantilever mechanical azimuth aligning with the grooves.
Click to expand...

There’s rather strong evidence that tracing accuracy is a predominant factor, i.e the stylus riding up and down the unmodulated groove wall.
 
Mister Pig said:
A long time ago I owned a 103R with a Soundsmith level 3 retip and an Uwe ebony wood body. Nice cart in it's way. I have owned the 103M, DL304, and DL-1S.

My favorite is the DL-1S and then the 103M.
Click to expand...
Was that the 103M I sent you and you had it retipped?
 
Mister Pig said:
A long time ago I owned a 103R with a Soundsmith level 3 retip and an Uwe ebony wood body. Nice cart in it's way. I have owned the 103M, DL304, and DL-1S.

My favorite is the DL-1S and then the 103M.
Click to expand...
I really like the 103r with boron and micro ridge and of course compliance correct.
What sut did you have, I feel the correct loading with this cart is half of the battle?
Chris
 
Mister Pig said:
That was a long time ago. A Cinemag based one as I recall.
Click to expand...
The R is a sod to get right I feel, though a great cart. The 103 like 40 ohm input as coils are 40 ohms, but the 103r is 14-17 ohms (they seem to vary) so a 10 ohm tap is closer to ideal but still not correct.
Chris
 
cafe latte said:
The R is a sod to get right I feel, though a great cart. The 103 like 40 ohm input as coils are 40 ohms, but the 103r is 14-17 ohms (they seem to vary) so a 10 ohm tap is closer to ideal but still not correct.
Chris
Click to expand...

Just to be clear, and make sure we are using the same terminology….

The ohm numbers your quoting, are based on a 47k preamp using a SUT of required turn ratios?
 
cafe latte said:
The R is a sod to get right I feel, though a great cart. The 103 like 40 ohm input as coils are 40 ohms, but the 103r is 14-17 ohms (they seem to vary) so a 10 ohm tap is closer to ideal but still not correct.
Chris
Click to expand...
Are you saying the DL-103R has a 14 ohm coil, and needs to see a 14 ohm load impedance?
 
rothwellaudio said:
Are you saying the DL-103R has a 14 ohm coil, and needs to see a 14 ohm load impedance?
Click to expand...
No I am saying a sut designed for 10 ohms or less ie ie if cart measures 5 ohms select the 10 setting, if the cart is 30 ohms select 40 setting.
My point is the 103r is 14 ohms the sut ( for denon) is 10 ohms and 40 ohms ( not actual ohms but the setting guide). 14 is close to 10, but rule of thumb is over 10 use the 40 setting.
My point is neither are correct loading.
Chris
 
cafe latte said:
My point is neither are correct loading.
Click to expand...
What load impedance would be "correct" for a DL-103 to see? A turns ratio of 1:10 and a 47k load on the secondary gives the cartridge a load of (approximately) 470 ohms. That load impedance can be reduced to whatever value you like by having an additional load in parallel with the secondary winding, or the primary winding, or a combination of both. It's easy to have a lower impedance load than 470 ohms.
 
To be honest I am not much of a SUT fan. Now that I think about it I did dally with a SUT for a bit during the time I owned the modified 103R, but it was not memorable. At that time I used the Liberty B2B-1 phono stage which handled low output cartridges quite well. So does my current Esoteric E-03 phono stage.

The only SUT I own are the Ortofon T2000 and T5000, and that is because I have the matching cartridges. They are low enough in output that a SUT is mandatory. My Esoteric can run the MC3000 II and MC5000 reasonably well, but there is some performance abilities that are not achieved. The SUT achieves that.
 
rothwellaudio said:
What load impedance would be "correct" for a DL-103 to see? A turns ratio of 1:10 and a 47k load on the secondary gives the cartridge a load of (approximately) 470 ohms. That load impedance can be reduced to whatever value you like by having an additional load in parallel with the secondary winding, or the primary winding, or a combination of both. It's easy to have a lower impedance load than 470 ohms.
Click to expand...

I think I'll add to the test list the realities of what, in most cases, varying load impedance actually does to the response of an MC cartridge.
 
Btw, the selector switch on the front of the Denon AU-320 is labelled 3 ohms and 40 ohms.
Personally I think the load impedance is less important than is often stated. The headamp I make has the ability to set the load impedance independently of the gain and I find its effect is subtle at best.
8DE3F173-27FC-471C-B461-5DFADE4BDA28.thumb.jpeg.7c3f94f5e5fbd7e5479b81622e04dff3.jpeg
 
This all goes back to the question asked in post #181

The ohm rating Chris (@cafe latte) is proposing for the 103R is arbitrary if not explained…

The Denon manual states, use the “40 ohm” selection 1:10 turn ratio for the standard DL 103, using this calculator http://www.hagtech.com/loading.html that’s a 470 ohm rating the “3 ohm” selection 1:36 is a 36.3 ohm rating, as pointed out by @rothwellaudio

Denon’s labels on several SUTs isn’t the actual loading, it’s just a suggested selection option based on the internal ohm rating of a particular cartridge (lower internal ohm or higher internal ohm)

This is why we have to be using the same terminology when talking about loading, especially when using a SUT


VR
Andy
 
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