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Thorens TP60 (headshell) gauge dimensions

REDone said:
Ron The original setting for the Thorens was not baerwald it was their own.

The VE Thorens protractor was aftermarket designed to Baerwald by SEB

You can use a variety of settings of setback within the headshell (altering the effective length) but each will then have its own unique offset angle to get optimum performance. The Baerwald is the better protractor if you can (a) get the effective length & (b) twist the cart in the headshell to align to the offset angle
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I guess I will leave well enough alone as it sounds pretty good to me and after some enduring patience in the setup I might add. The Thorens protractor gives the 5mm dimension for me and possibly the angle I have set has really made the difference. I tend to think the cartridge makes a big difference here as well. I could be wrong I have been in the past enough to know that. I am starting to believe my ears more than anything these days. One fella said here on the forum "If you have synergy don't ignore it". That said, this is a difficult table to set up at best and if its sounding good things are playing into your favor somehow.

My Marantz 6100 alignment gauge instructions read to get that stylus positioned anywhere over the crosshair on the 45 adaptor. That's at least a 3mm distance. If it has to be so close to be optimum on a Thorens we got problems. None the less, this has been a great thread well conducted and produced by all. Maybe it will grow.
Thank You Nines and Roger :thmbsp:
 
One of the great things about Thorens tables is their owners. I find all Thorens related threads are conducted with genuine helpful advice and opinions are respected.

Cheers to the Thorens crew:thmbsp:
 
enricosonic said:
This thread reminded me... I've got an extra gauge. I'd be happy to send it to someone who can use it, free of charge. First come, first serve, I reckon.

DSCN9008.jpg
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enricosonic said:
It's yours. Just PM me your info and I'll box her up.
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moinau said:
Thanks enricosonic, much appreciated.
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Today I've received in the mail the Thorens TP60 plastic gauge from "enricosonic" that he so graciously given away to a lucky AK member, me.
Thank you very much "enricosonic" much appreciated.
André
Picture included.
 

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Reviving subject.

I'm not much on geometry and am somewhat confused by the suggestions/results. I have a TD165 C which I guess is known as MKII at Vinyl Engine....not sure about that. Never was sure what the difference was between 165 and C. Mine has a hinged at back dustcover. I had a headshell gauge but am not sure I have it any longer. I've moved and stored this table a zillion times over the last 30 years and I'm not sure where the gauge is. Was this post saying that the gauge was wrong anyway? If so, why are the protractors discussed also wrong? Not sure I understand all that but want to when I get around to getting this table up and running. Been also looking for a TD125 MKII so I would still need to understand all this. My 165 has the light mass arm TP11 (V III?) and the TP63 headshell and I have an Ortofon VMS-20E MKII mounted on it. I would have used the original gauge for set up. Always sounded OK to me but had to track so light that any walking on the floor was a big problem. Anyway, this cartridge would not work out on the 125 MKII because that is the heavy mass arm. Right?

Just want to understand where to go with this protractor business. At a certain point Thorens had a knack for switching up arms and headshells and the manuals aren't much help to straighten it all out.:no:
 
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Buzzbomb said:
Reviving subject.

I'm not much on geometry and am somewhat confused by the suggestions/results.
Just want to understand where to go with this protractor business.
Click to expand...

Buzz, in this thread post #50 there is a link to a Thorens arc protractor...I just used it to set up my TD 166 MK II. I have the junky TP 62 headshell:thumbsdn:. Dave B's Take Five is playing now and sounds good...

Set your printer to No Scale and then measure the 140mm length on the sheet after its printed out to check the scale. HTH, Preston
 
OK. Yes the TP62 looks cool but in practice also looks like a nightmare. That slides back and forth on the armtube? How does it lock down?

I just wasn't sure about the protractors because lots of people in this thread seemed to indicate that neither worked for them. I don't recall which arm/shell they were working with (long thread). I suppose the cartridge makes a difference too.

I would have used the gauge to set up the Ortofon. I probably did it correctly because I was able to see back then. These days the eyes aren't what they used to be :no:. I'll check into the caliper thing.....thanks for the link Balifly.

I think I had an Otofon F something series on the 165 before the VMS. That sounded OK too. Still have it .....somewhere.
 
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Buzzbomb said:
That slides back and forth on the armtube? How does it lock down?
Click to expand...

Yes, it slides back and forth and twists side to side. I'm not sure it does lock down...I tried to tighten the screws some but didn't use much force.

Wish I didn't understand about the eyes going bad. Preston
 
I think you are all getting excited over nothing. The only important part is the height of the stylus measurement. With all the shims and thicknesses of different cartridges, that variable is the most important and hardest one to figure out without that measurement.
As for how far forward or backward. Well just download the protractors at
vinyl engine. Use the comparator, and it will tell you all the different mounting lengths.

Then use this!!! The best!! And FREE!!!!

http://www.conradhoffman.com/chsw.htm

Enter the info, and printout the alignment charts.

Align your head to Stevenson printout. Now just subtract the Stevenson from the "stock" measurement(found in vinyl engine comparison calculator, mark it on the protractor printout, and align to there.

It's the height of the stylus that is impossible to figure out from the crummy diagram with no measurement written in in the manual. Not the alignment, that's easy!!! Just use the printouts!!!
 
I used a two point protractor to mount my cartridge on my TD-145.Can you tell me how far rhe tip of the stylus is from the front edge of the head shell after you mounted your cartridge with the gauge?Thanks,
Dave
 
Are these dimensions also accurate for a TP16 Mk III with TP63 wand?

This is a great thread. You guys are a lifesaver.

I have a similar quandry with a new (to me) TD-147 with the TP16 Mk III arm and TP 63 wand/headshell. I plan to try a Stanton 681EEE-S cartridge on it first and then perhaps a NOS ADC XLM MkII Improved.

Of course, the table came without the clear plastic setup jig and I have no idea how to determine the spacing from the headshell to stylus tip nor the overhang.

Does anyone know if the TP16 MkIII with the TP63 wand/headshell uses the same jig or, more importantly the same dimensions as the TP160? If not, do you know what these dimensions are?

Thanks everyone.

Dave
 
crossram said:
This is a great thread. You guys are a lifesaver.

I have a similar quandry with a new (to me) TD-147 with the TP16 Mk III arm and TP 63 wand/headshell. I plan to try a Stanton 681EEE-S cartridge on it first and then perhaps a NOS ADC XLM MkII Improved.

Of course, the table came without the clear plastic setup jig and I have no idea how to determine the spacing from the headshell to stylus tip nor the overhang.

Does anyone know if the TP16 MkIII with the TP63 wand/headshell uses the same jig or, more importantly the same dimensions as the TP160? If not, do you know what these dimensions are?

Thanks everyone.

Dave
Click to expand...

I'm sure a similar jig would have been supplied, but due to the different shape in headshell, it would have been a different jig. I'd suggest using a protractor from vinylengine (need to register first-free), print it out to scale and go from there. You have a number of protractors to use. Any is fine as long as you have enough distance in your headshell to make them work. Perhaps start up your own thread specific on your model.

Welcome to AK BTW. (Edit: See you've been a member here longer than I have) Good luck!
 
Stylus height by protractor?

Thanks bhundu. I understand about using a protractor to set overhang and cartridge alignment, but I don't get how it would help with the stylus height adjustment.

I am assuming that the purpose of setting the stylus height is to set the VTA? If so, I guess that, short of having the Thorens plastic gauge to get it right the first time with the wand off, I can just figure it out by viewing the front-to-back level of the tonearm as one would do with any tonearm when adjusting VTA? If so, should it be absolutely level or slightly tilted up in the back?

This will be a PITA as each adjustment will require removing the arm wand, disassembling the cartridge/spacer stack, changing spacers, re-assembling the stack, inserting the wand, and trying it again to see if the tonearm level is correct?

Thanks,
Dave
 
Yes, you basically want the tonearm to be level. Some fool around a mm or so "tail-up or "tail-down" and test by ear. This is easier with some TTs that can adjust VTA on the fly. Not so much the Thorens.

The best method to get VTA correct is to place the stylus on a non-revolving record near the outer edge and sight the TA from the side. If you place a ruled card or piece of ruled writing paper on the record you will have horizontal lines that will help to see if the TA is level or not.

Although I'm not familiar with your model, you should be able to adjust the height of the TA at the pivot point. Most Thorens will have two screws that when loosened will allow the TA to be raised or lowered at the pivot point. If you have this facility, you would start by roughly getting VTA right using the spacers, and then fine tune with the TA base height. The following link may help in parts, especially the use of playing cards. All thanks to Divotdog!

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=244002

The original alignment jig didn't help set VTA. It was for alignment and overhang only.

Hope this helps.

Edit: Check the arm cue rest height if the VTA has been changed. You may have to adjust this afterwoods to make sure that a) the arm isn't dropping from a great height and b) it will raise the arm enough to clear the surface of the record.
 
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