Three-Way Horn System w/ PRV D2200Ph Midrange & ZXPC 18x10 Horn

[THD+N]

Edit: 1/27/24
I have added additional info on part numbers for crossover components. Some previous component values were changed to standard "off-the-shelf" values instead of calculated. Most components except for the autoformers and L-Pad resistors (Mouser Electronics) can be sourced from Parts Express.

After many iterations of changes, the following two crossover seem to be the best versions for 4 or 8 ohm woofers.

** If desired, an 8 Ohm L-Pad (15W) can be used instead of the fixed resistor (R1 & R2) L-Pad shown in the crossover diagrams.

4 Ohm Version


8 Ohm Version


Series Notch Filter (for use when not using an autoformer in your crossover/network). Crossover should precede the series notch filter.

** The B&C DE120 w/SMAHL horn can also be used with no changes to either crossover.


ZXPC 18 x 10 Horn w/ PRV D2200Ph driver (RED) compared to Klipsch K400 Horn w/ K55V driver (Green):

 

[ClaudeJ1]

Good move. Thanks for putting a great find in it's proper place. I have too many drivers now, but this one has such an appeal to me. Too many speakers, drivers, parts, and project going now, but it will be on my short list when it gets short enough. LOL.

 

[THD+N]

If you are going to be upgrading and/or modifying an existing or maybe building a new speaker, the tweeter is always the next topic to be explored. The SMAHL horn and driver are definitely worthy of using, especially if you have an existing Heritage speaker.

However, if you are building new or have room on top of an existing speaker, you may want to consider the Celestion screw-on H1SC-8050 waveguide. It is like a big SAMHL horn and has great sonics.

Mate it to your favorite tweeter compression driver and you'll be all set. The B&C DE120 or LaVoce DF10.142LK/LKS are recommended.

Celestion H1SC-8050 Waveguide

 

[ClaudeJ1]

The B&C DE120 or LaVoce DE10.142LK are recommended.

Typo alert, or upgrade by LaVoce.................it's a DF-10,142LK on Parts Express.

 

[ericc129]

I decided to make a new thread since it seems like the 2200Ph topic hijacked the SMAHL thread.

Please post all new content here and we will continue exploring this awesome driver & horn combination.

My Bad ! I couldn't help myself with a poster asking about a better midrange in a cornwall scenario. These 2 particular horns mate so well, and the zxpc and prv cost is shockingly good in terms of value compared to other upgrades. I ironically got on today to post about Daves tweeters so I'll go back to the priginal thread and post there

 

[Invidiosulus]

I just got a pair of the 18x10 horns and PRV D2200PH drivers for my LS yesterday.

These are the LS I got from my dad (Marvel/Bruce) back in 2021.

I told myself I would wait a year before I let the upgraditis get to me.
Now that he’s got a pair of JWC’s snails it got me thinking about making some changes.



They are going to need new motorboards for the mid horn to be air tight since we had planned to port the woofer out the back of the top section.



Sorry for the sideways images, looks like my phone is being dumb.

the sound of the PRV driver and the 18x10 is so far above what the K55 and K400 were putting out.
All of my kids immediately noticed it.
Last night we listened to Abbey Road, Revolver, and Glenn Gould’s ‘85 version of Bach’s Goldberg Variations.
All sounded fantastic with the larger driver and horn.

This feels like a cheat code, they really sound that good to me.

-Josh

 

[THD+N]

To make the most of the port mod, you’ll want to ensure you use an electronic (active) high pass filter with a slight boost at @ 40Hz. I’ll upload the circuit tomorrow. It’s not absolutely necessary, but it really makes the port mod shine.

BTW, nice jigsaw. Been using that type of Bosch jigsaw for 30 years.

 

[lissenup]

How does the PRV Audio WG45-50 compare to the ZXPC 10x18?

 

[THD+N]

How does the PRV Audio WG45-50 compare to the ZXPC 10x18?

It is the exact same horn.

 

[ericc129]

Hmm....I thought that horn was PRVs round exponential horn that's on the packaging from the driver. Anyway, regarding impedance loading, I'm not using a universal cover or one with a resistor on the autoformer taps. I was going to use something akin to a B-2 in overall design. I was going to use this as a starting point. I was previously thinking I may have to drop a tap to #3 due to it being overall or having less than the k55v 16ohm. Hopefully I can tweak with only the t2a autoformer. Pic looks a bit awkward or stretched but my bass bins were built Cornwall 2 spec. I'm hoping screwing steel bars (lined with punched out holes) across the back panel, and then maybe use the 2x4 method as well like in the IV for bracing to make up for using a lighter but just as thick birch ply. I just mention that so ya know the bass bin I'm working with in terms of the xover.

 

[Invidiosulus]

Hmm....I thought that horn was PRVs round exponential horn that's on the packaging from the driver. Anyway, regarding impedance loading, I'm not using a universal cover or one with a resistor on the autoformer taps. I was going to use something akin to a B-2 in overall design. I was going to use this as a starting point. I was previously thinking I may have to drop a tap to #3 due to it being overall or having less than the k55v 16ohm. Hopefully I can tweak with only the t2a autoformer. Pic looks a bit awkward or stretched but my bass bins were built Cornwall 2 spec. I'm hoping screwing steel bars (lined with punched out holes) across the back panel, and then maybe use the 2x4 method as well like in the IV for bracing to make up for using a lighter but just as thick birch ply. I just mention that so ya know the bass bin I'm working with in terms of the xover.View attachment 2803175 View attachment 2803180

that’s the WGP14-50.

 

[ericc129]

Ah gotcha...they have some weirdly similar horn names.....and colors for that matter. Btw, I was unsure of the zxpc horn. That I ordered a different horn that's a biradial that screws onto the k55 driver size.(just as a backup...they look like a bigger and wider version of the baby cheek tweeter and a 511 altec variant. At least n the meantime I'll have options until I dial my crossover in with the 18x10. These zxpc horns are so tempting due to price and quality results. Idk if I've ever seen the results from anyone using that 323 horn they sell which also would screw into a k55.....all n all I believe the consensus that the 18x10 is ones best option, if not due to the prv driver value....or the 17x11 if one wants a longer throw or a basically a large room

 

[THD+N]

Hmm....I thought that horn was PRVs round exponential horn that's on the packaging from the driver. Anyway, regarding impedance loading, I'm not using a universal cover or one with a resistor on the autoformer taps. I was going to use something akin to a B-2 in overall design. I was going to use this as a starting point. I was previously thinking I may have to drop a tap to #3 due to it being overall or having less than the k55v 16ohm. Hopefully I can tweak with only the t2a autoformer. Pic looks a bit awkward or stretched but my bass bins were built Cornwall 2 spec. I'm hoping screwing steel bars (lined with punched out holes) across the back panel, and then maybe use the 2x4 method as well like in the IV for bracing to make up for using a lighter but just as thick birch ply. I just mention that so ya know the bass bin I'm working with in terms of the xover.

You can crossover the D2200Ph just as if you were using a K55V with the exception that you will need a low pass crossover to attenuate the upper frequency range because the 2200Ph will go out to 8kHz before it starts to roll off naturally. Replace the 500uH with anything from 0.2mH to 0.3mH on the D2200Ph. 0.25mH is probably a good starting value.

The impedance curve of the PRV D2200Ph is nearly identical to the K55V:

D2200Ph Impedance Curve


K55V (push pin) Impedance Curve

 

[ClaudeJ1]

The impedance curve of the PRV D2200Ph is nearly identical to the K55V:

I jumped the gun and ordered 2 of these drivers. I have 4 large Bruce Edgar Style Tractrix Horns (as copied by Greg at Volti, but mine are bigger for lower cutoff). One has a huge JBL 2" 2485 Phenolic Driver that tanks at 4 Khz. but goes down to 300. My other pair has no drivers, so I will test that horn as well as the ZXPC 18x10. I'll post the curves later but don't hold your breath. You guys are costing me more money and time than I have. But this "DIY Audio Disease" must be medicated with more gear!

BTW, I also looked at the MFG Specs of the more expensive version (D3200Ph) and it's very far from being as flat as this one, so I chose not to try it. We shall see. The curves never lie.

Hopefully I won't need to return them if they measure as good as your curves or sound as good as you say.

 

[THD+N]

I'll be selling some "over stock" stuff soon. Don't want to list anything here just in case.

 

[ClaudeJ1]

I'll be selling some "over stock" stuff soon. Don't want to list anything here just in case.

Roger That!

 

[THD+N]

BTW, I also looked at the MFG Specs of the more expensive version (D3200Ph) and it's very far from being as flat as this one, so I chose not to try it. We shall see. The curves never lie.

Hopefully I won't need to return them if they measure as good as your curves or sound as good as you say.

It looks like the next closest candidate would be the D4500Ph. The frequency response looks near identical to the D2200Ph, except on the top end it looks more like the K55V, but that would be OK. However, unless you need the power handling, it is 3 times more expensive and I doubt it sounds any better than the D2000Ph for what we are using them for.

It is a massive driver though and has curb appeal.

 

[ClaudeJ1]

It looks like the next closest candidate would be the D4500Ph. The frequency response looks near identical to the D2200Ph, except on the top end it looks more like the K55V, but that would be OK. However, unless you need the power handling, it is 3 times more expensive and I doubt it sounds any better than the D2000Ph for what we are using them for.

It is a massive driver though and has curb appeal.

For home use, power handling is down pretty low on the list if it's even on it. Otherwise, if I needed to have the ultimate "curb appeal" I would use the Community M4 that weight 50 lbs. and runs flat from 250 to 1,250. You really make a "loud hailer" out of just ONE of those monsters!! LOL

 

[ericc129]

Good to know, I just took a chance one day back in dec when parts express was having a sale......they were just so cheap.....I think it was a previous buyers review that made me take the jump....otherwise, I was like "2inch driver with a phenolic diaphragm like my k55" and just took a shot.....knowing the horn was good......I've never been a huge fan of titanium drivers and wanted one of similiar material than the diaphragms often used as 2 inch replacements in a cornwall/cornscala.....and also why I snagged the mylar de10 vs another pair of the B&C 120 thats in my super heresys.

but yeah, I had the usual thought that hey if the 2200 is good the 3200 or 4200 must be better, right? Stopped myself though and figured I'd find out down the road and let others try that gamble.

 

[ClaudeJ1]

Good to know, I just took a chance one day back in dec when parts express was having a sale......they were just so cheap.....I think it was a previous buyers review that made me take the jump....otherwise, I was like "2inch driver with a phenolic diaphragm like my k55" and just took a shot.....knowing the horn was good......I've never been a huge fan of titanium drivers and wanted one of similiar material than the diaphragms often used as 2 inch replacements in a cornwall/cornscala.....and also why I snagged the mylar de10 vs another pair of the B&C 120 thats in my super heresys.

but yeah, I had the usual thought that hey if the 2200 is good the 3200 or 4200 must be better, right? Stopped myself though and figured I'd find out down the road and let others try that gamble.

Titanium replaced aluminum diaphragms for RUGGEDNESS in Live Sound applications, but when their inherent HF roll off was PEQ'd, you got too much ringing between 8-18 Khz. They sound fine up to 3-4 Khz. if you choke them off and go 3-way with them and use a Super Tweeter with superior dispersion. Aluminum is still better for Hi Fi with natural roll off (I use Radian Aluminum in my JBL Mid Drivers).

Neither of these 2 metals go as low as Phenolic or as High as Beryllium. Choose your compromises wisely, I say, just as you have.