To Equalize or Not to Equalize
- Thread starter Te-Te
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RobRoy
It's just stuff - but fun
Personally, I go for the pro gear. The same stuff I use for my PA system. And it has to be 1/3 octave. You can find it at guitar center, MCMelectronics.com, Amazon, etc.
I myself don't know what's being made these day's, but some people commenting here sound like they could definitely answer that question.
Exactly. Who cares what we think. You have an eq, why do you have it in there? I'm guessing because you actually like it?
twiiii
Lunatic Member
If systems were perfect there would be no need. But that said you can only voice the direct signal from the loud speaker, what the room does after that when the signal bounces around is the issue. The more directional your speakers the better the EQ's work and the less you need them. But even the best directional speaker eventually allows the room to overly influence the sound. The easiest solution is to pick a directional speaker and sit with in the direct field of the speaker is at least equal to the ambient reflected field. Using absorbing panels to reduce the room reflections can help.
Now if your a musician with trained hearing you can use equalization to voice your system to the qualities you desire. But detailed careful voicing requires sophisticated test equipment, many hours of training and practice applying the knowledge you have been exposed to. A system such as Room Perfect takes multiple reads in a room analyzing the relation ship between the direct sound and reflected sound and attempts to give the best average for either a small focused area, or a broader general area. Odyssey tries to give a flat response mixing the reflected and direct sound together, which is all right if you have controlled the standing waves and reflections in the room. But either system are only the first steps in maximizing the sound quality in your space.
If you are just generally triying to shape the sound in broad brush strokes, equalization is a great tool. But if you are trying to correct narrow resonances, reflections, or room resonances, general EQing is not the answer. And heaven forbid you should have a resonating panel that is absorbing energy . Because no matter how much increase in energy you add with an EQ the issue will not be corrected. All you will do is add more distortion to the sound by stressing your electronics and over driving your loud speakers.
Try to understand what qualities you are hearing that are offensive, and what is the cause, The speaker, the room, speaker placement, etc etc. Correct as many things as you can first physically. Then consider voicing your system. But only works if you have a trained ear. Otherwise you need analyzers and the knowledge to use them.
Now if your a musician with trained hearing you can use equalization to voice your system to the qualities you desire. But detailed careful voicing requires sophisticated test equipment, many hours of training and practice applying the knowledge you have been exposed to. A system such as Room Perfect takes multiple reads in a room analyzing the relation ship between the direct sound and reflected sound and attempts to give the best average for either a small focused area, or a broader general area. Odyssey tries to give a flat response mixing the reflected and direct sound together, which is all right if you have controlled the standing waves and reflections in the room. But either system are only the first steps in maximizing the sound quality in your space.
If you are just generally triying to shape the sound in broad brush strokes, equalization is a great tool. But if you are trying to correct narrow resonances, reflections, or room resonances, general EQing is not the answer. And heaven forbid you should have a resonating panel that is absorbing energy . Because no matter how much increase in energy you add with an EQ the issue will not be corrected. All you will do is add more distortion to the sound by stressing your electronics and over driving your loud speakers.
Try to understand what qualities you are hearing that are offensive, and what is the cause, The speaker, the room, speaker placement, etc etc. Correct as many things as you can first physically. Then consider voicing your system. But only works if you have a trained ear. Otherwise you need analyzers and the knowledge to use them.
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Will S.
Super Member
Pretty much every AVR and pre/pro has sophisticated EQ built-in. Many better subwoofers also have built-in EQs. For other applications there's miniDSP. If you're looking for the classic analog sliders and lights graphic EQ, you'll have to go to pro gear but even in the 70s they were really more mass market than high end home audio gear.
For me, in my main system? Never. Been there, done that, and I have a pile of maybe a half dozen different components I no longer use that were attempts to "fix" things, including two EQs. Analog equalizers introduce problems (including phase errors), and digital EQ introduces its own distortion. (I prefer to hear the unaltered digital file.) If it's over my desktop system or cheaper headphones, I don't mind some EQ in those cases. Otherwise, I gain more "quality" to my ears by keeping the signal as pure as possible.
Some home theater equipment has "auto EQ" to "fix" rooms, but some consider it a crutch--all this does is fix it in one tiny spot in the room; elsewhere, it is throwing off the frequency response and will make the rest of the room worse. It's best to fix the room first. Proper speaker placement and room treatments may take time and effort, but they pay off in the end.. Light EQ is used only as a very last resort. That is how acoustics professionals do it, and there is good reason for it.
851 SP3
Active Member
Many (many) years ago, I had a very nice Yamaha EQ. While I used to as most have suggested here as a tool to help make up for room deficiencies, there was more than a little 'cool factor' involved in its purchase. I rarely used it as my rooms back then lent themselves to essentially flat settings. So, it's still a tool. An example of a space where I could use one is my wife's car. 7 speaker, 100+ watt factory system. I set the bass to minus ten on the second day of ownership (low/mid/high adjustments) because EVERYTHING sounds like mud. Not just radio stations (the worst at boosting the low end for some stupid reason) but, everything sounds horrible. Even at the minus-max setting, there are certain sources that are simply un-listenable. I've threatened to disconnect the sub but have not as yet.
Will S.
Super Member
The Burmester in my M-B is pretty good, but it definitely needs to have the bass backed off a fair amount to tame the boom.
Will S.
Super Member
They would be wrong.
This is also incorrect. Most modern systems require measurements at multiple positions to achieve the best overall response throughout the room.
Like everything else, there are limitations to placement and room treatments, especially in small domestic rooms that are not purpose-built. EQ and room enhancement are complimentary.
Light EQ is used only as a very last resort. That is how acoustics professionals do it, and there is good reason for it.
Acoustics professionals use the necessary tools for the venue. Sometimes they get to design the room from the bottom up, but they are usually using a mix of EQ, treatment and microphone placement to get what they need.
Will S.
Super Member
Cutting is usually better than boosting as it's less likely to induce downstream distortion.
musichal
poet emeritus
The EQ vs No-EQ argument has relevant points made many times on both sides. It is curious that the subject tends to be divisive at some point in a thread. What I think gets short shrift sometimes is the fact that frequency boost and cut are matters of level, and thus, matters of quantity. The underlying assumption that increasing the level of a particular band of frequencies results in an improved quality of overall sound leaves out other factors. Like distortion introduced, or out-of-band effects. Or speakers that just won't reproduce a given band with as much resolution as some other models. Sometimes I think we overemphasize frequency response's role, just a bit, for achieving good sound quality. We all get to decide for ourselves, though.
SWL3600
Super Member
I've gone to hear other peoples systems that were boasting that no EQ or room correction was needed. I'm listening and thinking to myself "You've got to be kidding me".
If those people like "that" kind of sound, then no problem. As long as I don't have to listen to it.....and I don't....only they do....and I'll listen to my EQ'd system in MY room, in MY house, the way I prefer to listen. No big deal.
Someone else mentioned earlier.....if I listened to string music and all audiophile recordings it would be much easier to listen "flat" but that is not the case for most of us.
If those people like "that" kind of sound, then no problem. As long as I don't have to listen to it.....and I don't....only they do....and I'll listen to my EQ'd system in MY room, in MY house, the way I prefer to listen. No big deal.
Someone else mentioned earlier.....if I listened to string music and all audiophile recordings it would be much easier to listen "flat" but that is not the case for most of us.
patate91
Well-Known Member
I just read a sound on sound article about analogue warmth. At one point I understand that analogue gears may introduce distortion and side-band effect, but I don't think it's the case of digital EQ would add any distortion if they are not wanted.
https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/analogue-warmth
91r100gs
Lunatic Member
As a owner of two unused EQ's, I have found that as your gear heads up the food chain I have found that simple tone controls, are sufficient for adjustment, My Emotiva XSP-1 pre has +/- 3 db adjustments when you leave the direct mode. On a handful of source material I use the tone controls. Mostly on streams that sound a bit "thin". Back when I had Mid-Fi speakers and a marginal CDP and TT it was essential to "shape" the sound with a EQ
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Just like any other drug user, I have a "dealer" that I have bought a lot of stuff from at really low prices.....I texted him Fri to see if he still had an EQ we talked about a few months ago. He texted back "I have two and if you take them both it will be $20".....well, since I am the drug user I picked them up yesterday: A Sony SEQ 430 and a Technics SH 8017.
I hooked up the Sony to an MCS 3248 in our bedroom systems. I listened to a SACD flat then applied some EQ over about 30 minutes or so and found that I liked the sound better with a bit of boost but not a lot. The picture I took was with the levels set rather high compared to where they ended up. I need to listen to it for a week or so to get it completely dialed in but I like it so far. I think I will flip the Technics and keep the Sony.
I hooked up the Sony to an MCS 3248 in our bedroom systems. I listened to a SACD flat then applied some EQ over about 30 minutes or so and found that I liked the sound better with a bit of boost but not a lot. The picture I took was with the levels set rather high compared to where they ended up. I need to listen to it for a week or so to get it completely dialed in but I like it so far. I think I will flip the Technics and keep the Sony.
Eric Lloyd
Well-Known Member
If you've ever swapped speakers because you didn't care for the voicing, you've engaged in equalization of your stereo's sound. If you ever said to yourself, "Wow, it sounds so much better with this large painting on the wall here", you've eq'd your room. What the heck. Get a nice equalizer and play around. Don't like it? Too many wires to untangle now? Sell it to somebody else. If you lose a few bucks on the deal look at it as a rental fee on the unit.
I honestly don't know why this has any controversy attached to it.
To the guys who go on about hearing things "as the artist intended" - the artist doesn't even get to hear that. First the producer tells him to change it so it's less "busy", then the engineer changes out the mics or runs different effects because they record better, then the mastering tech eq's it the way he thinks it should have been in the first place, then the marketing rep says it's too dynamic and won't sound good on the radio so it gets mastered again to be hotter, then it goes to the radio station where they compress the crap out of it, then it zaps up & down through a satellite to your computer (streaming device of some kind), then it works it's way through your preamp, amplifier to your speakers with their supposedly 'flat' response where you can complain about how the manufacturer of your unit should have left off the bass & treble controls because they might be coloring the sound while it's all bouncing around in your listening space. Then some cat comes over and says, "oh, I heard in an interview that they recorded that album specifically so it would sound good on crappy car speakers because that's where most people are likely to hear it", and you punch him in the mouth.
I honestly don't know why this has any controversy attached to it.
To the guys who go on about hearing things "as the artist intended" - the artist doesn't even get to hear that. First the producer tells him to change it so it's less "busy", then the engineer changes out the mics or runs different effects because they record better, then the mastering tech eq's it the way he thinks it should have been in the first place, then the marketing rep says it's too dynamic and won't sound good on the radio so it gets mastered again to be hotter, then it goes to the radio station where they compress the crap out of it, then it zaps up & down through a satellite to your computer (streaming device of some kind), then it works it's way through your preamp, amplifier to your speakers with their supposedly 'flat' response where you can complain about how the manufacturer of your unit should have left off the bass & treble controls because they might be coloring the sound while it's all bouncing around in your listening space. Then some cat comes over and says, "oh, I heard in an interview that they recorded that album specifically so it would sound good on crappy car speakers because that's where most people are likely to hear it", and you punch him in the mouth.
SWL3600
Super Member
....and who's to say the 'artist' or the producers aren't some wooden eared dorks that like forward midrange, anemic bass and highs that don't have a clue? (the opposite of how I like to listen)
Or there's a good chance they prefer that boomy, rap bass crap. Too many variables.
Or there's a good chance they prefer that boomy, rap bass crap. Too many variables.
