Transports

[TandbergRay]

hello All,

Anyone out there know the technical features/operation of the Transports of most of our used Reel to Reel decks here....Im mainly talking Pro-Sumer and Consumer Decks. Such as AKAI GX-747....Technics RS-1700...TEAC X2000R....Pioneer RT-909....Tandberg TD20A-SE...Revox PR99...Sony...and the like???? I know that all of these Transports differ in ways, some are far smoother in operation than others....but does anyone know the Pro's and Con's of the Transports of their favorite Open Reel decks?? Id like hearing the technical operation of the various decks popular here. Thanks, Ray

 

[Suzuki]

This DENON is not popular at all here, however it represents Japanese made R2Rs for professional and semi-professional use. I used to own one for a year. (I let it go as it was so space-consuming and heavy.) The descriptions on the link below says this model has dual capstans one of which are directly driven by a dedicated motor and the other is driven by the belt tied to the main capstan. The motor is managed by magnetic servo to maintain the accurate revolutions. I can't understand in detail the method to maintain the best back tension with the article, but it seems that it is controlled by the deflection of AC currents of independent motors for reels driving that are electronicly managed.
http://k-nisi.hp.infoseek.co.jp/dh-710s.html

 

[jan_stevns]

hello All,

Anyone out there know the technical features/operation of the Transports of most of our used Reel to Reel decks here....Im mainly talking Pro-Sumer and Consumer Decks. Such as AKAI GX-747....Technics RS-1700...TEAC X2000R....Pioneer RT-909....Tandberg TD20A-SE...Revox PR99...Sony...and the like???? I know that all of these Transports differ in ways, some are far smoother in operation than others....but does anyone know the Pro's and Con's of the Transports of their favorite Open Reel decks?? Id like hearing the technical operation of the various decks popular here. Thanks, Ray

What you are asking seems to have been covered in the thread :
"Survey: Highest Fidelity AND Most Reliable R2Rs of all time?"

starting with http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=299781

That thread did cover a lot of decks, and their pro and con's, so i can recommend reading it.

I have (a present) a Revox PR99, a Sony 765, a Teac X2000, and a Teac A3300 - That means 2 rather normal decks, and two Dual capstan decks, the Teac X2000 seems to be the most gentle deck, closely followed by the Sony and the A3300 - the PR99 is a bit hard on the tapes, without it ever had given me any reason to be nervous

 

[TandbergRay]

hello,

thanks for the reference post, but it really doesn't cover what I asked. It mentions some opinions on decks that they own, but nothingf really technical, and too many decks are left out in this thread. I was hoping more for maybe the literature, or an expanation thereof, that told the operation of the Tape Transport, or particular decks that are owned, and used by most of us....like the decks I mentioned. Ray

What you are asking seems to have been covered in the thread :
"Survey: Highest Fidelity AND Most Reliable R2Rs of all time?"

starting with http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=299781

That thread did cover a lot of decks, and their pro and con's, so i can recommend reading it.

I have (a present) a Revox PR99, a Sony 765, a Teac X2000, and a Teac A3300 - That means 2 rather normal decks, and two Dual capstan decks, the Teac X2000 seems to be the most gentle deck, closely followed by the Sony and the A3300 - the PR99 is a bit hard on the tapes, without it ever had given me any reason to be nervous

 

[jan_stevns]

hello,

thanks for the reference post, but it really doesn't cover what I asked. It mentions some opinions on decks that they own, but nothingf really technical, and too many decks are left out in this thread. I was hoping more for maybe the literature, or an expanation thereof, that told the operation of the Tape Transport, or particular decks that are owned, and used by most of us....like the decks I mentioned. Ray

I'm not entirely sure what you wish to know - despite i'm a tech, and have 4 different decks running at the moment, i'm not sure i can explain the reason why any of my transports works the way they do, nor why things are made as they are.

i'f you have basic knowledge on mechanics, a tapetransport is pretty simple, unless we're talking the more fancy electronic (computer) controlled decks .

 

[BinaryMike]

Well, one particularly elegant feature is the way that closed-loop-dual-capstan machines control tape tension over the heads. The capstans and flywheels are identical, and they're driven via a single belt from the capstan motor pulley. Belt tension causes belt thickness to be slightly diminished on the takeup side, which makes the takeup capstan want to rotate slightly faster. This force is balanced by tape tension, yielding well-controlled tension over the heads, even in tape decks with full record/play functionality in both directions.

 

[Cosmic]

Personally, I like the fully electronic, three-motor system.
My Studer 807 proved its worth in spades when I ran a tiny old tape reel on it.
The tape was about 45 years old, and the reel weighed nothing compared to a 10.5 spool, yet the electronics and the motors (combined with the roller-equipped tape guides) handled it as gently as you could wish, imbalance or not.

I have always liked the Technics 1500-style loop as well; a precise and beautiful system.

C.

 

[jan_stevns]

The Dual capstan system is rather genious , but some decks do have different flywheel's (capstans) on their autoreverse models , like TEAC's X-1000r and X-2000r - furthermore the capstan motor is tilted a bit, to ensure the belt moves up on the ridge on the supply side flywheel. We have had a thread in here, where problems was caused by missing shim's at the motor.

 

[KentTeffeteller]

Suzuki,

Denon open reel recorders were virtually unknown here. Denon equipment didn't begin being sold here until 1981 or so. Their semi-pro open reel decks were as you point out excellent. The Technics Closed Loop system wasn't invented by Technics. They copied it from the 3M Company's Mincom professional tape recorders (www.manquen.net is one of their designer's Web pages). Their inspiration was the M 79-2 recorder. In my opinion, the Teac X series machines don't belong on the list of most reliable (same goes with Tascams using this transport). The Tascam BR 20T was the best Tascam deck (very comparable to the Otari MX 5050 B II line and their last open reel deck).

 

[TandbergRay]

Hello Kent,

You seem to know much more than I do. So, I may be totally wrong here. But I was recently talking to a Local Tech, who works on Reel to Reels for the Philadelphia Orchestra, Phila. Academy of Music, etc....maintains their machines, etc,, Anyway, he also sells many vintage decks, none of which are selling, cause he is asking $2000.00 and up for eacjh one. But we got to talkiing recently, and he was telling me about TEAC/TASCAM still making rell to reels up to recent years, with a BR10, and a BR20 machines.....But he said that they were not made as strong, or well built as the older TEAC's because he says the whole front, and many parts on it were all plastic, of which once was metal on the older TEAC units....Is that true?? How did the transports differ from the X-Series decks?? Thanks, Ray

Suzuki,

Denon open reel recorders were virtually unknown here. Denon equipment didn't begin being sold here until 1981 or so. Their semi-pro open reel decks were as you point out excellent. The Technics Closed Loop system wasn't invented by Technics. They copied it from the 3M Company's Mincom professional tape recorders (www.manquen.net is one of their designer's Web pages). Their inspiration was the M 79-2 recorder. In my opinion, the Teac X series machines don't belong on the list of most reliable (same goes with Tascams using this transport). The Tascam BR 20T was the best Tascam deck (very comparable to the Otari MX 5050 B II line and their last open reel deck).

 

[fortycoats]

I think it was only the facias that went plastic with the transports remaining at least the same, in terms of quality, if not better. It's easy to mistake the one for the other, especially when the end user only sees the outside of the machine.

 

[KentTeffeteller]

The Tascam BR series had the plasticky front panels but were sturdier than the X lineup. Tascam aimed the BR line at broadcast and studio use who normally didn't use Tascam decks. Better capstan motor than an X series deck and usually built well to last. The Teac X series worst problem was their undersized small DC capstan motor which is well known for unreliability. The A series used mostly metal and had 3 sturdy drive motors which have stood the test of time.

 

[Sam Cogley]

Suzuki,

Denon open reel recorders were virtually unknown here. Denon equipment didn't begin being sold here until 1981 or so. Their semi-pro open reel decks were as you point out excellent. The Technics Closed Loop system wasn't invented by Technics. They copied it from the 3M Company's Mincom professional tape recorders (www.manquen.net is one of their designer's Web pages). Their inspiration was the M 79-2 recorder. In my opinion, the Teac X series machines don't belong on the list of most reliable (same goes with Tascams using this transport). The Tascam BR 20T was the best Tascam deck (very comparable to the Otari MX 5050 B II line and their last open reel deck).

Outside of the known issue with replacing the capistan belt at regular intervals, what's unreliable about the Teac/TASCAM "X" series transport? I have one of the 7" decks, and it seems to be a very reliable device.

 

[TandbergRay]

Hi Sam,

I have to agree with you. I have the TEAC X2000R, and have never had a problem. Even after prolonged periods of no use. My machine operated perfectly, and from what I have been told, and have read by experts, the TEAC X2000R, and X series Transports, they are supposed to be among the best, and gentlest of Transports of all Reel to Reel machines. I am not talking about Studer or Professional Transports, but among ProSumer machines, it seems to be clever and excellent isolation. It has been rated above Sony, and Technics from all experts/Techs I have heard from. I also like my AKAI GX-747...never a problem.

I think my Tandberg TD20A, TD20A-SE Transport is an excellent transport as well. I can hit any button, while going from FF, to Play, or Stop, with Silky smooth response. No breaking tapes, or stretching them. I dont know how they are getting a bum rap from certain individuals. Mine has been restored by a professional, and operates like silk. Great machine.

I have never heard the same about the Pioneer decks. They are more of a consumer deck, and will always rate there in my book. I prefer the TEAc X series far above the Pioneer. I believe Sony's are overrated. These are my opinions and experiences. Ray

Outside of the known issue with replacing the capistan belt at regular intervals, what's unreliable about the Teac/TASCAM "X" series transport? I have one of the 7" decks, and it seems to be a very reliable device.

 

[Sam Cogley]

Make sure you have a fresh belt in there. If it breaks you can kill the capstan motor. The design is certainly easy on tape with the roller guides instead of fixed posts.

 

[goldear]

The X-series decks do have undersized motors. For most home users this is not problem. But if you use them hard, the motors do not last. But you have to give them high marks for tape handling though.

Tandbergray: I'm not sure that I understand the purpose of this thread.

But if yor are asking about Sony transports, perhaps I can shed some light. The 10.5" sonys are all three motor, closed loop designs. They all use BIG AC motors that last nearly forever. All are belt-drive designs, with the exception of the TC-880-2 which is 50% direct drive. None of them feature electronic breaking.

Does that answer some of what you are looking for?

 

[jan_stevns]

well - after re-reading the first post in this thread , i'm also a bit unclear about the purpose Yet i can understand the question, but not answer it ....

Of course you can make a list over the typical transports made, and how they differ, but that don't tell much - we are today - app. 20 or 30 years past the time most decks where made, and isn't it a well known fact, that the way those decks perform today, is more a question about how they have been serviced, rather than how they where build to begin with ? I think so ....

One thing i a technical view on the decks - another thing seems to be a practical view - we now may know many things about the decks, you simply couldn't have foreseeen when they where new on the shelf - am i right ?

Still - there are a couple of decks that seem's to be more prone to faults directly due to age - again 20 or 30 years - where they build to last that long ? Don't think so.

Revox'es are build to last . they do, but not without maintenance,

TEAC's A series was very solid buld maybe not to last, but they for sure used every piece of craftsmanship the had - they doesn't need much maintenance to run year in, year out.

Don't know why the X-series got that bad rep, where they used beyond purpose ? Yes, they have flimsy motors, but compared to the numbers of decks sold, how many had issues ?? It would skew the debate - to forget that X models in reality seem to be the last consumer available deck, and it therefore may have been sold in very high numbers - they where here in Scandinavia, and probably also elsewhere

Tandberg - build to last - hard to say.

Sony's big decks - build to last, nope - but Sony really knew how to make a good deck, and they seem to last very fine - there are a h**k of a lot of them running

Today i'm happy i kept my Sony 765, and i'm exactly as satisfied with my X2000 decks - and the Revox PR99 - all very different decks - all works.

 

[TandbergRay]

Hello,

The reason for my question is, when I was putting together my system in the 1980's, I had a book called "Good Sound" which was a guide to High End Audio. In the book, they talked all about components, not really recommending a brand, but more of what to look for, in Turntables, Speakers, Tuners, etc....there wasn't alot on Tape...but what there was, they talked about Nakamichi and Tandberg as for cassettes. And then about Reel to Reels, stating that Revox and Tandberg were among the best. They mentioned one having the better Transport, while the other had better Electronics. They said that if you buy the one with a better Transport, and they later improve the Electronics, you'd end up with the better machine. But they didnt specify which was which. This led me to want to learn more about the Transports of the various decks. They talked more about 2 track High Speed units. Im asking more about 1/4 Track Prosumer Units..like AKAI, TEAC, Technics, Pioneer, Tandberg, Revox etc...but the 1/4 track machines mainly. Ray

The X-series decks do have undersized motors. For most home users this is not problem. But if you use them hard, the motors do not last. But you have to give them high marks for tape handling though.

Tandbergray: I'm not sure that I understand the purpose of this thread.

But if yor are asking about Sony transports, perhaps I can shed some light. The 10.5" sonys are all three motor, closed loop designs. They all use BIG AC motors that last nearly forever. All are belt-drive designs, with the exception of the TC-880-2 which is 50% direct drive. None of them feature electronic breaking.

Does that answer some of what you are looking for?

 

[Sam Cogley]

The X-series decks do have undersized motors. For most home users this is not problem. But if you use them hard, the motors do not last. But you have to give them high marks for tape handling though.

That complaint seems to be connected more with the 10.5" machines. My feeling is that the motor was probably spec'ed for the 7" version, then not upgraded for the larger reels. I wonder if there is a motor somewhere that would be a suitable upgrade?

 

[goldear]

That complaint seems to be connected more with the 10.5" machines. My feeling is that the motor was probably spec'ed for the 7" version, then not upgraded for the larger reels. I wonder if there is a motor somewhere that would be a suitable upgrade?

Yes, that is a fair assessment.

Regarding upgrades: I don't think that there are any off the shelf part that you could swap-in easily. And engineering a more robust replacement would be a very non-trivial task.