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Troubleshooting CD Players

Looks like HV discharge to me. I think this was a lightning strike victim. If so, there's no fixing it, multiple semiconductor devices will be damaged. What are the symptoms?
The very same symptoms @dogwan described https://audiokarma.org/forums/index...oting-cd-players.440522/page-40#post-15874451
  • CD physically loads just fine. Drawer moves smoothly and transport moves into position both with, and without a disc.
  • Laser transport moves into home position
  • When initialized laser lens does pop up and down once trying to focus.
  • With disc inserted, initialization results in spindle motor rotatly 1/4 turn and it's pretty slow at that.
* NOTICED: sometimes when I press on the top frame with the specific force (hard to say how much pressure) the device reads disk info. that is why I think it is something more mechanical (laser head adjustment ?) than electric
Mine system is Nacamichi CD Player 4, NOT Nacamichi CD-4
press.jpg
 
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MDN-4RA3FTAS is a Matsushita motor and those are crap. You can replace it with a Mabuchi disc motor if you can find one.
You might have better luck replacing the entire mechanism, as it's a Sony part; KSM-210. I have seen some Sony mechs from different vendors. I think Liberty has them, too. They come with 2 motors and the laser so you get another laser, and they are usually around $25, so a bargain.
This one has the wrong laser on it, but if the plate is the same you could use it, or just remove the motors.
https://www.allelectronics.com/item/la-10/cd-laser-optics-and-mechanism-sony-ksm/kss213/1.html
I have heard that the China sourced Mabuchi motors are junk, so be wary of them.
I just ordered the unit linked above. The plate looks different so I will try to swap motors.
 
I just ordered the unit linked above. The plate looks different so I will try to swap motors.

Cool, I noticed the same thing about the different plates. I see now they are 2 for $6.00.

EDIT: oh wait, I just noticed that that unit uses the KSS-213 laser, not the KSS-210. Not interchangeable as far as I can tell. So you will likely just have to transplant the motor.
 
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I just ordered the unit linked above. The plate looks different so I will try to swap motors.
If you want to swap motors you will have to measure the disc table height first before you remove the disc table in order to remove the motor. Measure the height from the bottom of the table to the top of the plate, or make some kind of jig that just fits in there when you press down on the table. Then remove the table by prying from the bottom of the neck, NOT the table or you'll bend it! The table should be secured to the shaft by a spot of wood glue when you replace it, so it won't make a permanent bond. Don't use superglue.
 
Moderator, please make this a sticky. I am tired of repeating this info in multiple posts so I want to make a memory dump in one place.
1. CD won't play:
Observe the mechanism with no disc loaded and the cover off (don't look directly at the lens!) When the player starts, the first thing the micro does is make sure the drawer is loaded and the mechanism has risen up to the play position. Then it will reverse the sled motor until the home position switch closes, then it moves the pickup forward a bit until the switch opens. (If the pickup doesn't move at all, the CD mechanism may not be in the fully loaded position, or there may be a problem with the sled drive or motor. Check the loading belts.) There is a switch that tells the micro that the pickup is in the home position so it can stop the motor and keep the pickup from jamming. If the switch gets dirty the micro keeps the motor on in reverse and the pickup won't move. With no CD in the player, turn the player on and watch the laser pickup (don't look directly at the lens!) If the pickup moves toward the disc motor then moves back, the switch is ok. If the pickup moves toward the disc motor and doesn't move back, the switch is dirty and doesn't close. On Sony based players, the home switch is a leaf switch located on the board that the disc motor is on. There is a plastic cover on the end of the leaf switch. Note what position it is installed in, and gently pull the cover off. Then clean the contacts by drawing 600 grit sandpaper through them just a couple of times. Then flush the debris out with contact cleaner or alcohol and gently replace the plastic cover. Depending on the construction of the mechanism, you may have to remove the disc motor board in order to get to the switch.
After the player correctly senses the home postion, the focus search starts and the laser pickup lens moves up and down. If the lens doesn't move after the pickup finds home, either the pickup is bad or the cable for the pickup is broken, or the drive IC is bad, or there is a power supply problem. Some players have IC protectors that look like transistors with only 2 leads. They go open.
If focus search starts, load a CD. If the disc spins, focus search was successful and the player achieved focus lock. The pickup may be good. If the table of contents is displayed but the player doesn't play, the pickup is either bad or the internal adjustments must be performed. A scope is necessary for this. If you have a scope and can see the RF waveform, it should be 1.2V - 1.5V peak to peak, on a player with a Sony chipset and many others as well. Use a commercially recorded CD, preferably an older issue, because newer issues can have lower reflectivity. If the RF waveform is lower than 1V peak to peak, the pickup is probably bad. Do the adjustments and if the waveform doesn't improve, the pickup is bad. Panasonic / Technics players have lower amplitude on the RF waveform, I think it's 1V peak to peak. Not sure about Philips players, I think they are 1.2 - 1.5V.
If the CD doesn't spin, the pickup could be bad or the disk motor, or disc motor drive could be bad. If the player does focus search and the disc doesn't spin and you hear a sizzling sound, the disk motor is bad. Try giving it a turn with your finger, it may start turning. If you replace the disc motor, the disk table height is critical. Measure the height before you replace the motor. You can use a ruler or calipers or feeler gauges. A good trick is to find something, a piece of wood cut to the same dimension, a nut, several feeler gauges; that fits under the disk table and you can use that as a gig to remount the disk table on the new motor, shoving the table down until it hits your gauge. The disk table must be glued to the motor shaft with a drop of superglue.

2. Skipping CDs:
There are several causes of skipping CDs. The most common is the top bearing of the disk motor is dried up and a couple of drops of light weight machine oil will cure it.
The second most common cause of skipping is the suspension of the CD mechanism is sagging and the CD chuck that holds the CD in place is rubbing on the arm that supports the chuck. This is cured by stretching the springs on the mechanism by the length of one turn. You must be sure to return each spring to the same position on the mechanism, because they are different tensions to account for the weight of the motors. If the player uses rubber bumpers instead of springs you can either replace them, replace them with springs if you can find some, or install washers under the bumpers to bolster them up.
On Sony 5 disc players that are sensitive to vibrations, open the top and insert a CD. Observe the chucking arm and magnetic chuck. On some Sony players the plastic chassis warps over time and the magnet is no longer centered in the chucking arm and rubs against the inside edge of the hole it rides in. If it appears not to be centered, push on the arm, from the front, sides and back to determine which edge the chuck is scraping on. You will be able to hear it scrape. If it does, remove the chucking arm. There is a screw in the back of the arm that adjusts the height of the arm and secures it, along with a spring. Remove the chuck from the arm by twisting the 2 halves until the plastic tabs line up with the openings. Now that the chuck is free, file or cut the hole in the arm on the side that it rubs, to enlarge the hole by about 1/8". Don't overdo it or the chuck will fall through.
Remove all burrs and plastic shavings and re-assemble the chuck and install the arm in the player. Adjust the height of the arm so that the chuck floats in the arm with equal parts above and below the arm. The improper height of the arm is another cause of skipping.
If the chuck is not off center, is it riding too low in the arm and scraping on the arm? If so, adjust the height of the arm if it is adjustable on this model.
Sometimes the machined posts that the laser slides on need to be cleaned and re-lubricated, especially if the owner had pets. Clean them thoroughly with alcohol and then apply 2 drops of light weight machine oil to each post on either side of the laser.
Clean the lens. Use a Q tip moistened with ethanol (NOT Isopropyl alcohol, it can cloud plastic!), distilled water or Kodak Lens Cleaner.

3. Drawer won't open / stay closed:
Replace the loading belts.

This covers most of the problems found in CD players.
Great info! I actually fixed my Linn cdp the other day. Had rarely used it the last 5-6 yrs due to it skipping on the first half of the disc. I finally got the courage to open it up and take a look. Turns out that it just needed some oil on the rails that the laser rides on. Works perfect now!
 
OK, I bought a Fisher AD-923R knowing it wouldn't spin up a disc and it displays "no". A challenge, right? Lens is clean. Lens starts high and moves low and stays there. It doesn't try to focus. My cell phone camera shows no laser beam.

Anyway. There is supposed to be -5 VDC to the laser assembly when it's supposed to be powered up and there is only a logic change from about .2 volts to about .6 volts, so the laser doesn't emit. Everything else appears to function so it isn't the processor. No fuses out. I suspect it's the chip that supplies the -5 volts when it receives the correct logic on the "laser" pin. The 5 volts from the power supply is there at the VDD pin on that chip. I still have to verify the logic changes are actually happening at the various points but I'm pretty sure they are, being other commands are carried out as normal.

I guess I plan on supplying the -5 volts from an external source to see if the laser diode emits and allows the rest of the functions to occur (spin up and TOC read). Sound logical?

Doug
 
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Folks -

Just acquired a Magnavox CDB-650. Prior owner said it powered up but wouldn't play. Here goes:

I got the tray to operate. Disc will load. Spins variably for a few seconds then quits. Display all seems to function and indicates "disc error".

Thoughts on next steps to fault find?

Thanks!
 
Folks -

Just acquired a Magnavox CDB-650. Prior owner said it powered up but wouldn't play. Here goes:

I got the tray to operate. Disc will load. Spins variably for a few seconds then quits. Display all seems to function and indicates "disc error".

Thoughts on next steps to fault find?

Thanks!
After the easy stuff;
Blue elyticaps, board double-side feed-throughs, weak laser.
 
Folks -

Just acquired a Magnavox CDB-650. Prior owner said it powered up but wouldn't play. Here goes:

I got the tray to operate. Disc will load. Spins variably for a few seconds then quits. Display all seems to function and indicates "disc error".

Thoughts on next steps to fault find?

Thanks!

Is a disc spinning in the right direction - clockwise?

Doug
 
Is a disc spinning in the right direction - clockwise?

Doug
I changed the electrolytics on the transport PCB including the 33uf. Cleaned the mechanism and changed the belt. Transport works great.
Now, when loading a known good disc, the drive spins counterclockwise, 2-3 seconds then disc error.

Question: Are the regulators the three chips attached to the heat sinks on the back of the unit?
 
To continue with ,my Fisher AD-923R project from above, I decided to first remove the pickup mechanism from the player to see if the laser will emit with -5 volts applied where it is supposed to be. I used one of my many MRC model railroad power packs, a Tech II 2400 which has the option of outputting straight DC and NO pulse.

I fed the -5 volts through a 100 ohm resistor and monitored the voltage with a DMM. Lo and behold, the laser actually started emitting at about -3 volts as revealed by my cell phone camera. It got a little brighter at -5 volts. I know I should have monitored the current, too, and maybe I'll repeat the test doing that but I mainly just wanted to see if the laser at least still turns on.

So now, I will reinstall the mechanism into the player and figure out how to detach the two pins from the plug to feed -5 volts to the laser and be able to have the rest of the connections via the plug (T and F coil connections) and see if the player functions. If it does, I may devise a little circuit to supply the -5 volts when the correct logic is applied. I could just have the laser on all the time but I'd rather not.

And, for those thinking why am I bothering with this old player, particularly a Fisher, which is not regarded as one of the supposedly superior brand players, the early Fisher (Sanyo built) players are very good. I have three (one from 1984 and two from 1985) and they work perfectly after all these years and sound terrific.

Doug
 
I changed the electrolytics on the transport PCB including the 33uf. Cleaned the mechanism and changed the belt. Transport works great.
Now, when loading a known good disc, the drive spins counterclockwise, 2-3 seconds then disc error.

Question: Are the regulators the three chips attached to the heat sinks on the back of the unit?

I'm sorry, I am not familiar with that exact player but it's a good bet that any transistor-looking device attached to a beat sink is a regulator or power output transistor. The best thing to do would be to get a schematic so you can see what's going on. See which voltages are supposed to be where and if they are missing.

Your problem sounds similar to mine with this Fisher. It's doing basically the same thing. The disc will spin counter-clockwise with a little help and the display will then show "no". This means the initial laser/focus/data-to-photo detector sequence isn't working.

Oh, and with any CD player, the disc should spin clockwise looking from the label side.

Doug
 
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I'm sorry, I am not familiar with that exact player but it's a good bet that any transistor-looking device attached to a beat sink is a regulator or power output transistor. The best thing to do would be to get a schematic so you can see what's going on. See which voltages are supposed to be where and if they are missing.

Your problem sounds similar to mine with this Fisher. It's doing basically the same thing. The disc will spin counter-clockwise with a little help and the display will then show "no". This means the initial laser/focus/data-to-photo detector sequence isn't working.

Oh, and with any CD player, the disc should spin clockwise looking from the label side.

Doug
Update - trying to isolate the fault to the laser controller: manually moved the radial arm back so see if powering / loading a disk would show any movement of the arm as the transport attempts to read the disk. First, without a disc in the player closing the tray the turntable will turn clockwise briefly then stop. Interesting.

Loaded an older known good disc (Sublime), moved the radial arm toward the back of the machine, tray in, AND IT STARTS RUNNING CLOCKWISE! Mechanically a little noisy, what the heck why not plug in the RCAs and see what happens. It's playing music on track 7, though sounds scratchy and low volume with a hum.

Subsequently won't play newer discs or a CDR at all, back to counterclockwise and disc error.

Any next step insights much appreciated. I've tried to download schematics closest I can get is a dutch language CD650 Philips.
 
Update - trying to isolate the fault to the laser controller: manually moved the radial arm back so see if powering / loading a disk would show any movement of the arm as the transport attempts to read the disk. First, without a disc in the player closing the tray the turntable will turn clockwise briefly then stop. Interesting.

Loaded an older known good disc (Sublime), moved the radial arm toward the back of the machine, tray in, AND IT STARTS RUNNING CLOCKWISE! Mechanically a little noisy, what the heck why not plug in the RCAs and see what happens. It's playing music on track 7, though sounds scratchy and low volume with a hum.

Subsequently won't play newer discs or a CDR at all, back to counterclockwise and disc error.

Any next step insights much appreciated. I've tried to download schematics closest I can get is a dutch language CD650 Philips.
The player has multiple problems but the scratchy sound on playback and the fact that it won't play a CDR is a dead giveaway that the laser power is low. The laser has reached it's end of life and there are no parts available for Philips. This is why I advise people to avoid Philips CD players and any manufacturers that used Philips mechanisms, such as Rotel and Marantz. Don't waste any more time on it, go look for a player that uses a Sony KSS-210A, KSS-240A or KSS-213 laser. When you find a player you are interested in, Google the make and model number and the word "laser." These Sony lasers are the only ones available. The replacements are not Sony but Liberty Electronics on Ebay and B&D Enterprises have found reliable manufacturers in China to make good quality replacements.
 
Well, powering the laser diode externally and operating the player otherwise normally (Fisher AD-923R) was not successful so there are other issues. Maybe I'll get back to it, some day.

Douig
 
hello @dr*audio I have a Harman Kardon HD500 that will show error E as soon as it is powered up and also when you place a CD and close the tray/table. I opened it up and discovered that the tray/table section that it is supposed to slide back when the door closes won't go all the way back to actuate the close switch, and therefore the clamper won't go down. I can make the table to actuate the switch if I press down on the clamper gently. I disassembled the tray/table and cleaned it and made sure it was lubricated, but this does not seem to help. I also replaced the belt just in case, but still nothing. Any ideas on what could be the problem?
 
hello @dr*audio I have a Harman Kardon HD500 that will show error E as soon as it is powered up and also when you place a CD and close the tray/table. I opened it up and discovered that the tray/table section that it is supposed to slide back when the door closes won't go all the way back to actuate the close switch, and therefore the clamper won't go down. I can make the table to actuate the switch if I press down on the clamper gently. I disassembled the tray/table and cleaned it and made sure it was lubricated, but this does not seem to help. I also replaced the belt just in case, but still nothing. Any ideas on what could be the problem?
Replacing the belt should have fixed it. There may be gummed up grease in the mechanism. Either that or the drawer timing may be off and preventing it from loading completely.
Try opening the drawer by pushing the Open button, then turn the power off. Push the drawer all the way in manually. Hopefully you will feel the resistance stop and the drawer moves easily. If so, hold the drawer in and turn the power on and the mechanism will reset itself.
 
Hi dr*audio, thankyou for sharing your knowledge all those years ago and keeping the thread going. Some weeks ago i put aside two days to read the entire thing and take notes. Anyway, i have my friend's Hitachi Opus 1 music system he wants me to fix. I have the service manual, but it's a weird one to me. As soon as i select CD on the right hand main panel the spindle motor starts spinning at full speed, which it shouldn't do of course. Doesn't matter if there's a CD loaded or not. None of the cd control buttons on the left hand side do anything if i press them. No sled movement or focusing routine going on, just this straight-to-spin and all other controls locked up.
The unit other functions all work perfectly. I see an inch crack in the bottom case near the CD mech - makes me wonder what may have happened there.
Any ideas?
 
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