Tube amps vs solid state
- Thread starter BillyB
- Start date
Why do you feel you have to choose, or avoid them? Running a tube amp occasionally doesn't mean that you can't run a solid state amp, too, when you feel like it.
I don't understand the camp mentality in audio. Variety is what makes life tolerable.
Good Point
roline
Active Member
I was unfortunate enough to get to listen to a nice system where the power amps were a KRELL $2,500 against a Triode connected tube amp $600.. Speakers were Thiel 3.5's.
I thought that the Krell was awesome, played with authority. Then the little triode connected tube amp was connected, the clarity and spacial sound stage was a new experience. It was a pivotal experience that motivated me to start making tube amps. I've developed both 6550 based and sweep tube based designs. TO each their own.....
I thought that the Krell was awesome, played with authority. Then the little triode connected tube amp was connected, the clarity and spacial sound stage was a new experience. It was a pivotal experience that motivated me to start making tube amps. I've developed both 6550 based and sweep tube based designs. TO each their own.....
bowtie427ss
Lunatic Member
The problem with this comparison is that the Krell at 2500 depending on the model is probably 2 decades old and no longer in spec.
I suppose you could physically place the amplifier directly in front of the loudspeaker.
You did ask the question Tom.
Soundminded
Well-Known Member
Although even the best designed tube amplifiers have much higher THD and harmonic distortion than even good design ss amps, non linear distortion in tube amplifiers is well below audibility. However, a visit to the VTV show in Piscataway NJ in 2007 showed me something I would not have believed otherwise. In the entire show there was only one solid state amplifier and I identified it by hearing alone immediately. The sound has a clearer flatter response. I have concluded that the difference is FR and that tube amplifiers have characteristic colorations that distinguish them from SS amps. I have not experimented with equalizing tube amps to negate the differences but it may be possible. One possible reason is their relatively high output impedance. Another is inherent FR distortion created by the output transformers. Not sure if the second one explains it though, there are OTL models out there. FR measurements using a resistor as a load and at one watt does not reflect real world use and is virtually worthless to demonstrate why different amplifiers sound different but that is the test most labs and manufacturers use because in the 1930s that measurement showed real differences. Anyway, the experience reminded me why I switched to SS forty years ago and never looked back.
reggaenaut
Addicted Member
(Change tubes)
This factor makes tubes less reliable.
I am not a camp follower and these are my reactions:
In general I prefer the sound of tube tuners.
I hate the enormous heat associated with tubes and thus do not use them in the summer.
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Cloth Ears
Well-Known Member
Neither. Both. Well made gear of either flavour can be quieter, cleaner or more accurate. Single ended circuits in both SS and tube varieties often have high 'measured' distortion - but actually end up sounding better to our ears than cleaner 'undistorted' sound from either variety of push-pull amplifiers.
When you start to get to the end of an amps' tether, then the clipping from any SS amp other than single-ended class A tends to be a bit harsh. You have a little more leeway with push-pull variety tubes, and SE tend to be tweeter savers when it comes to clipping.
But, if you're using 5 watts to listen to music, and you've got a 250 watt SS amp, then your sound can be pretty dynamic. That's about the only reason I stick with SS is the headroom it gives you.
kconnor
Well-Known Member
Preface by saying there are exceptions to everything. Generally, quality solid state amplifiers are measurably superior to tube amps in the commonly accepted parameters use to evaluate amplifier performance.
Think of tube amplifiers as expensive tone controls. You adjust them by tube rolling instead of turning a knob or moving a slider.
That being said, I have both types.
Think of tube amplifiers as expensive tone controls. You adjust them by tube rolling instead of turning a knob or moving a slider.
That being said, I have both types.
ssmith3046
Super Member
After over 40 years using solid state amps and receivers I bought a restored Fisher 500C last year and it was one of the best audio purchases I have ever made. I really enjoy being able to alter the sound of my receiver by switching out a few tubes. Telefunkens, Mullards, RCA black plates, there all great but different. I've owned solid state amps that were rated at 250 wpc and sounded great but I'll take this old Fisher these days. I also agree with the comment about the 3D soundstage posted earlier. That was one of the first things I noticed too. I'm not saying one is better than the other, just different. Enjoying your music is what's important.
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ChairSpud
Super Member
As far as tubes go I could imagine Single Ended circuits having a very different sound from push pull circuits.
In regards to SS there are more options than just plain old transistors. There's also MOSFETs and Class D chip amps. A class D Tripath amp is my daily driver
Yes good point! there are other SS alternatives like the class D Charlize 2 I'm using right now. To add another generalization I find the Tripaths combine positive qualities of both SS and tubes.
Dave/ChairSpud
As am I, age wise. My experience is with "modern" and Vintage tube equipment (of the Audio variety). Many many pieces of high quality Vintage Solid State as well.
Yes, tubes do wear out, just like tires on a car. We're talking overall equipment reliability. The fact that tubes wear out, just like tires, still doesn't make a machine less reliable. Just means there MAY be a higher cost of maintenance over said machine's service life. Not to mention that tube gear is a heck of a lot more serviceable friendly than Solid State.
Then we can talk about all the Solid State equipment (good sounding equipment by the way) that uses Darlington Power Pack STK type devices, differential pair drift, DC on the speaker taps and on and on. And one can never forget that with Vintage Solid State you are frequently faced with the prospect (and costs) of service "work arounds" due to other part's obsolescence to keep things up and running. As just one example those pesky STK type devices. All but the most esoteric of tube designs can be kept in good working order in most instances with readily available "off the shelf" parts if need be.
You can't say that (generally speaking) for Vintage Solid State and you can almost forget it when it comes to 1970s era FM receivers when the MPX chips go bad (and they do). These are just examples of things I factor into my thinking when discussing reliability. ALL machines eventually need service. I give a lot of weight to just how easily that service can be accomplished.
Solid State catastrophic failures are also more likely to cause speaker damage as well.
Good sounding Solid State is just that, but it sure as heck has more than it's fair share of problems too, and in my mind nothing to cause me any anxiety over having to replace a tube, or few, every 5 to 10 years. And I'm talking equipment that gets used.
I own more than several 45+ years old pieces of tube equipment, amps, receivers and radios, all of them still enjoying 85-90% of their original tube compliments and performing beautifully.
To keep any gear at maximum strength there is maintenance involved. Unfortunately most end users don't know this, or don't do it. They just use it until it breaks.
Your comparison to early era televisions is irrelevant, apples and oranges. Too many circuit differences between early televisions and Audio, not to mention differences in specific designs and build qualities.
I considered all of the above and much more when I made my decision to go tubes all the way. The one exception I do enjoy is my Solid State Op-amp based outboard phono stage I use with my moving coil rig. And I had to have the chips in that replace when it was barely 5 years old! (lost a channel).
I stand by my original statement.
Thomas
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BadassBob
Digitally rendered
They definitely do. SE tubes have that "hanging in the air" sound, whereas push-pull seems to be thrown at you.
That's your prerogative friend; argue away.
So I assume from your comments you never need to check or adjust your bias and DC offset on your Solid State gear either?
No soldering iron or soldering skills required to swap out a tube either (good for the users that just want to own gear to use listening to music)
Or your "Lifetime" transistors and ICs I guess.
Thomas
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The problem with this comparison is that the Krell at 2500 depending on the model is probably 2 decades old and no longer in spec.
I suppose you could physically place the amplifier directly in front of the loudspeaker.
You did ask the question Tom.
In most cases I prefer my modified Dynaco Stereo 70 to my Mark Levinson 432. Neither of the amps are out of spec, so you can't throw that around in this case.