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"Tube life" Anxiety Caused By Using My Amplifier

First all here and those related / close to them ; best wishes for the new year , may it be better then the last and stay healthy .
Regarding tubes enjoy them , you can take them out of the amp and put them on a shelf .
But this would be like filling a wine cellar with the best wines and not drinking them . Maybe your heirs will enjoy them or just put them out with the other leftovers of the estate .
Life is short enjoy it , if you enjoy those tubes used them while YOU can .

Regards F.
 
The problem with cathode bias is during large signal changes the bias shifts usually going somewhat colder thus sounding different. I always go the extra effort and employ individual output tube bias. Sure it takes a minute or two to adjust properly but the benefits to me out weight the added difficulty. Generally when re-tubing one purchases a quad of matched tubes and unfortunately these tubes no matter where you have bought them or what you paid or the brand they tend to shift after a while and soon you will find one tube requiring more or less bias than its mate. I no longer worry about matched tubes.... I buy what I can find and match them close as I can and use and enjoy them. Sure, some will think they can hear a difference but in all reality if we were doing a blind A/B test no one would be able to detect any differences. If you look at the two different amp I sent pictures of you will note 4) bias controls. What you don't see is a different bias circuit with different values set up in a manor that moving one control doesn't make a major change on the other three tubes. Also, I have the bias capabilities to use other output tubes and bias them properly. Once this is done one can purchase 6BG6GA's at a reasonable price make to adapters to plug the 6BgA's into and be able to use them in the Dynaco without disturbing the original output schematic. One can also enjoy 6L6GC's or a variety of Russian output tubes. The Dynaco isn't limited to EL34's only.

Cathode bias my opinion is fine for a single ended amplifier or a 30's era Atwater Kent radio running 2) #45 output tubes but has no real place when your pushing the snot out of your classic Dynaco Stereo 70. For those without any electronics experience read hard and long for the benefits and drawbacks of cathode bias.
 
The problem with cathode bias is during large signal changes the bias shifts usually going somewhat colder thus sounding different. I always go the extra effort and employ individual output tube bias. Sure it takes a minute or two to adjust properly but the benefits to me out weight the added difficulty.

Do you replace the cathode resistor with a rheostat? :idea:

Thanks!
 
For those worried about using a 5U4.......

You need to consider the fact that the Dynaco was designed to be used with its preamp mate that derives its power via those two front octal sockets and when you don't use the preamp it allows one to use the 5U4 which draws more current without fear.

With respect to the transformer.... I've run the standard Dynaco power transformer in the Dynaco around the clock day in and day out without it going up in a puff of smoke. The transformers of that time WERE designed to run hotter and live.

First all here and those related / close to them ; best wishes for the new year , may it be better then the last and stay healthy .
Regarding tubes enjoy them , you can take them out of the amp and put them on a shelf .
But this would be like filling a wine cellar with the best wines and not drinking them . Maybe your heirs will enjoy them or just put them out with the other leftovers of the estate .
Life is short enjoy it , if you enjoy those tubes used them while YOU can .

Regards F.

Do you replace the cathode resistor with a rheostat? :idea:

Thanks!

I also just got my Mullard XF3s tested from my local hookup. He said they where very strong perfectly great tubes. Something like 78/100 where brand new tubes apparently test very similar on the tester he had. Thats damn impressive for the amount of use this amp had. Even the 7199s which have very burned pins. And sound great!

I also received my lot of random 6xxx variations for 10$. Many are kinda craply built visually. Some are great.

Some make some slight noises sometimes which tends to fade away too silent while I use them. But all of them work. And most of them are dead silent like the 7199s are.

A few do hum, but those ones look like somebody "took a blow torch" too them inside a TV or something.


Can't believe the Mullards are still such great tubes after so mutch time, and use!
 
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When people talk about "biasing" an amplifier, they are referring to setting the "idle", or quiescent, current in the power output tubes. All tubes must be biased, both preamp and output tubes, but it is not always clear whether or not the bias needs to be adjusted when changing tubes.

Why do you need to bias a tube?

Tubes have to be properly biased in order to function as amplification stages. A tube is biased by setting the amount of DC current that flows in the tube when there is no signal present at the tube's grid with respect to it's cathode. This DC bias current can be set in a number of ways. The bias point determines several things about a tube amplification stage. It determines the power output, amount of distortion, headroom (the size of input signal that can be applied before the output signal clips), efficiency of the stage (the amount of output signal power vs. DC input power), gain of the stage (the magnitude of the output signal for a given input signal), noise of the stage, and class of operation (class A, AB, etc.). The proper bias point is a tradeoff between all of these factors, and selecting the optimum bias point can sometimes be difficult, and it will vary depending on the amplification stage requirements.
Biasing methods

There are two main types of biasing: fixed biasing and cathode biasing. Fixed biasing does not mean the bias is not adjustable, in fact, it usually means the opposite. Cathode biasing is usually fixed, and not adjustable, and fixed biasing is usually adjustable with a small trimmer potentiometer, or "trimpot". It is no wonder the subject is confusing to people!
Fixed biasing means the tube is biased by means of a DC voltage, which is usually a negative voltage applied to the grid of the tube with respect to the cathode. As the negative grid voltage is adjusted, the bias current will increase or decrease, depending upon the direction the bias voltage is going. In general, as the bias voltage becomes more negative, the bias current becomes smaller, and the tube is biased "colder". As the bias voltage is adjusted less negative, towards zero volts DC, the bias current becomes larger, and the tube is biased "hotter". This is because a tube is a "normally on" device; that is, it allows current to flow from the cathode to the plate when the grid is at zero volts with respect to the cathode. The tube can be turned off, and the current flow stopped, by making the grid voltage negative with respect to the cathode. The tube can also be biased by referencing the grid to ground, or zero volts DC, and applying a positive DC voltage to the cathode. This is the same as keeping the cathode at ground and applying a negative DC voltage to the grid, because it is the grid voltage with respect to the cathode that determines the amount of bias current in the tube.

Since vacuum tubes are "normally on" devices, a trick can be used to bias them without having to supply a negative DC voltage source to the grid. If a resistor is placed between the cathode and ground, and the grid of the tube is referenced to ground (usually by connecting a large value resistor, such as a 1Meg, from grid to ground), the tube will try to conduct a large current from cathode to plate, since the grid and cathode are initially at ground potential. However, this cathode current flow will cause a voltage drop across the cathode resistor, making the cathode voltage positive with respect to the grid. Since the cathode voltage is now positive with respect to the grid, the current flow will decrease, and the tube will head back towards cutoff. A point of equilibrium will quickly be reached where the increase in current is offset exactly by the increase in cathode voltage, and the bias current will stabilize at some particular value. It will remain at this value unless the resistor value is changed, or a different tube with different characteristics is plugged in. This allows the desired bias point to be set by varying the value of the cathode resistor.

When do you use fixed biasing instead of cathode biasing?

Since cathode biasing eliminates the need for a special negative DC bias supply, why don't all amplifiers use cathode biasing? Well, cathode biasing is not without its faults. It turns out that in order to keep the DC bias supply voltage at the cathode constant while the input signal is changing, the cathode resistor must be bypassed with a large capacitor. This capacitor effectively "shorts" the AC signal component to ground, while allowing the DC voltage to remain relatively constant. If the capacitor is removed, the cathode DC voltage will have a signal voltage superimposed on it, which will subtract from the grid-to-cathode signal voltage, and reduce the gain of the stage.
The problem comes in when there are large signal level changes, and the average DC level of the cathode voltage changes. This causes a bias shift, usually in the direction of a colder bias point. This bias shift can be audible, but is sometimes desirable for guitar amp use, as it adds varying harmonic overtones to the sound. If the bias shift is severe, the tube will go into cutoff, and large amounts of "crossover" distortion will occur. In addition, the current flow through the cathode resistor generates a necessarily large bias voltage on the cathode for proper tube operation (typically 30-50 volts for most higher power output tubes). This voltage subtracts from the total plate voltage, which decreases the available output power. Between this voltage decrease and the bias shift, the output power in cathode biased operation is reduced when compared to fixed bias operation. Therefore, fixed bias is usually used for higher power amplifiers (50W and higher), and cathode bias is usually used for lower power amplifiers.

Preamp tubes are almost universally cathode biased, because they are used for signal amplification, not power amplification, and the side effects of cathode biasing are not as important. Also, cathode biasing makes the circuit less dependent on tube parameters, and more forgiving with respect to bias point. This allows replacement of tubes without having to rebias the amplifier stage. Output tubes that are cathode-biased should always be checked when replacing tubes, however, because they vary widely in terms of idle current for a given cathode resistor value, and it may be necessary to change the cathode resistor value to return the output stage to it's proper bias current.


The above is from https://www.aikenamps.com/index.php/what-is-biasing
 
When people talk about "biasing" an amplifier, they are referring to setting the "idle", or quiescent, current in the power output tubes. All tubes must be biased, both preamp and output tubes, but it is not always clear whether or not the bias needs to be adjusted when changing tubes.

My opinion here.... when replacing tubes bias does need to be checked and sometimes corrected in the case of preamp tubes. When designing a circuit one looks at the tube curves and based on operating point one determines the amount of bias along with plate voltage thus when changing tubes one will need to see how the tube is doing and a voltage check should be made(again my opinion) in order to see if the cathode resistance needs a slight tweak. Once the operational parameters are selected and plotted on the tube curve graph for the most part the tube will follow the lines as plotted. Of course another method might simply be to pull out the tube and select another that will track correctly.

Again my opinion... I wouldn't dare plug in a new set of output tubes without first dialing the bias back so the tubes are starting out at a lower bias/current and then making necessary adjustment until the tubes are sufficiently hot and the bias steady.
 
When people talk about "biasing" an amplifier, they are referring to setting the "idle", or quiescent, current in the power output tubes. All tubes must be biased, both preamp and output tubes, but it is not always clear whether or not the bias needs to be adjusted when changing tubes.

My opinion here.... when replacing tubes bias does need to be checked and sometimes corrected in the case of preamp tubes. When designing a circuit one looks at the tube curves and based on operating point one determines the amount of bias along with plate voltage thus when changing tubes one will need to see how the tube is doing and a voltage check should be made(again my opinion) in order to see if the cathode resistance needs a slight tweak. Once the operational parameters are selected and plotted on the tube curve graph for the most part the tube will follow the lines as plotted. Of course another method might simply be to pull out the tube and select another that will track correctly.

Again my opinion... I wouldn't dare plug in a new set of output tubes without first dialing the bias back so the tubes are starting out at a lower bias/current and then making necessary adjustment until the tubes are sufficiently hot and the bias steady.
When people talk about "biasing" an amplifier, they are referring to setting the "idle", or quiescent, current in the power output tubes. All tubes must be biased, both preamp and output tubes, but it is not always clear whether or not the bias needs to be adjusted when changing tubes.

My opinion here.... when replacing tubes bias does need to be checked and sometimes corrected in the case of preamp tubes. When designing a circuit one looks at the tube curves and based on operating point one determines the amount of bias along with plate voltage thus when changing tubes one will need to see how the tube is doing and a voltage check should be made(again my opinion) in order to see if the cathode resistance needs a slight tweak. Once the operational parameters are selected and plotted on the tube curve graph for the most part the tube will follow the lines as plotted. Of course another method might simply be to pull out the tube and select another that will track correctly.

Again my opinion... I wouldn't dare plug in a new set of output tubes without first dialing the bias back so the tubes are starting out at a lower bias/current and then making necessary adjustment until the tubes are sufficiently hot and the bias steady.


I'm finding all my new and old EL34 tubes bias differently. When I roll in tubes, I always set bias lower for safety as they can vary so mutch per manufacturer.

Here's a pic of some Bridged bent filament 6GH8As! Pretty tubes!!! Sounds great! Dirt cheap pocket change tubes! You can get handfull amounts for a few bucks.

I wired a 6.3V transformer out of phase with the Primary, or (Wall plug). This significantly takes a thermal load off of the transformer. From it being super hot to touch, too just being pretty warm after several hours.

It actually stays cooler now than many solid state amps I have. Where before, the st70s transformer was hotter than all of them.

I guess the St-70 doesn't really "eat" tubes like many amps do. The Dynaco group confirmed that for me. And at 112ish Volts. And underbiased on tubes like 45ma or something around their. I think I'm in the clear. My St70 transformer stays super cool after making a Bucking transformer.

That's why they just seem to run, and run. Many members in the Dynaco Groups are still rocking all original tubes since they got the thing, even in the 60s. Any problems almost always being associated with the amp having other issues itself, or user error, which intern destroys tubes.

Even then, I am impressed with the abuse tubes can take, and still work perfectly fine. Some look like they were blow torched. And can sound great!

It's like when people have issues with tubes blowing or other issues. And you look at the amplfier, and it's still 100% factory. Old bias caps and all....

i5emC58.jpg
 
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Biasing the output tubes easier contributes to tube life. Some amplifier manufacturers bias the output tubes to the max and as a result their life is limited. I've personally seem amps with EL34 finals that ran 600VDC on the plates with maximum bias and lived less than 6 months.
 
There are very fine replacements for your output tubes ( perhaps not Mullards ) but certainly good enough that you probably won't miss them when they're eventually gone. I wouldn't worry about it.
Just make sure your amp is healthy so they don't die prematurely.
Getting good 7199s is harder. You might want to invest in 6GH8As ( or 6U8) and some adapters.
There's a trick for raising the heater voltage ( DC ) above ground on those which should make them last longer.
 
Do you replace the cathode resistor with a rheostat? :idea:
Thanks!
The small amount of inductance that a rheostat has does not matter at audio frequencies. The quality of the cathode bypass capacitor is of more importance. You might want to bypass the rheostat with a higher value resistor so if it does not make proper contact there is an alternative path to ground so the tube does not blow up. I use rheostats or adjustable pots all the time as cathode resistor, even in a class A amplifier as it makes tube rolling easier. Some brands have to be biased differently (EL84 / 6BQ5 / 6P14P etc) and some sound better at either a different bias. EL84 can sound wonderfull at 38mA.

Some 100 Ohm Spectrol 162 10 turn rheostats turned up on ePray at a price too good to let pass. These are destined to go in my new EL84 SE. (in series with a fixed resistor....) Just watch the current these things can handle - I try to stay below half maximum current capability. (in my case about 35% of max)
 

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I disagree. One could use variable resistor for tube rolling to figure the resistance your happy with and then the variable resistor should be checked with an ohm meter and a fixed resistor put in its place. My primary thinking on this is as follows... if there were a problem and the resistor heated up the resistance can change and therefore cause a problem. Yes, I know of several designers that use variable resistors to arrive at the desired resistance for the bias resistor and once that resistance is figured the variable is removed and a fixed resistor is used in its place. In all my years I've never seen a variable resistor in service as a cathode resistor in ANY amplifier available to the public or for that matter any home built device. For those with limited capabilities the idea can cause more problems than it solves. I recommend getting to know how to read and use the tube curve information that is available with any tube out there when you pull up the tube specs. A quick look at the chart/tube curves and with the help of "Ohms Law" one can calculate the cathode resistor needed.
 
but in the end the tolerances of the components and all the other factors in the PS just make hand wringing and being anal with a bent toward perfection just the self delusion of all newbie experts.

Which does bring us to the old question of, how long do matched tube sets, stay equally matched for? Years? Months? Days? Hours? Seconds? Milli seconds?
 
After 55 years and having started this trip by going to varsity where I attended the last class being taught vacuum technology and afterwards working for Philips I shake my head at some of the advice being handed out.

I am reminded of the plan:

The Plan

In the beginning, there was a plan,
And then came the assumptions,
And the assumptions were without form,
And the plan without substance,

And the darkness was upon the face of the workers,
And they spoke among themselves saying,
"It is a crock of **** and it stinks."

And the workers went unto their Supervisors and said,
"It is a pile of dung, and we cannot live with the smell."

And the Supervisors went unto their Managers saying,
"It is a container of excrement, and it is very strong,
Such that none may abide by it."

And the Managers went unto their Directors saying,
"It is a vessel of fertilizer, and none may abide by its strength."

And the Directors spoke among themselves saying to one another,
"It contains that which aids plants growth, and it is very strong."

And the Directors went to the Vice Presidents saying unto them,
"It promotes growth, and it is very powerful."

And the Vice Presidents went to the President, saying unto him,
"This new plan will actively promote the growth and vigor
Of the company With very powerful effects."

And the President looked upon the Plan
And saw that it was good,
And the Plan became Policy.

And this, my friend, is how **** happens.

Have a great 2021.

AM
 
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Life is all too short...enjoy the Mullards while your ears can convey any perceived nuance. Meanwhile, el34 are ubiquitous, and if the Mullards don't outlast you, there is an abundance of great replacements.
 
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