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Tubes and system synergy

MWalt said:
What's the problem with mixing SS and tubes? Just curious.
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There have been documented problems with some hybrid amps with huge power supplies putting out heat as well as some of the tubes putting out heat which caused tubes to explode or other problems.... Don't know if its a huge problem, but its been known to be a problem. I like the Vincent SP 331 MK and I don't think it will have such a problem.
 
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I like mixing SS with tubes. I use a SET amp for the mids/highs and a SS amp for the bass.

Hybrid amps are IMO not much different than adding a tube buffer to a SS amp. You still get most of the SS sound with very little of the lushness and warmth of tubes. Nor do you gain the ability to resolve micro detail at low listening levels that a SET can offer. A good tube preamp'SS amp makes a lot more sense.

The two hybrid tube amps I eventually sold used a quad bank of tubes in the preamp section but when the signal was amplified by those big toroidals the end result was sterile and fatiguing.
 
O.K. Got it! I am using a SS amp and a tube pre in this case. Separates. Not technically a hybrid.
 
Poultrygeist said:
I like mixing SS with tubes. I use a SET amp for the mids/highs and a SS amp for the bass.

Hybrid amps are IMO not much different than adding a tube buffer to a SS amp. You still get most of the SS sound with very little of the lushness and warmth of tubes. Nor do you gain the ability to resolve micro detail at low listening levels that a SET can offer. A good tube preamp'SS amp makes a lot more sense.

The two hybrid tube amps I eventually sold used a quad bank of tubes in the preamp section but when the signal was amplified by those big toroidals the end result was sterile and fatiguing.
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Poultry...When I first got the Cantons...the first watt was not giving me any micro...but after they broken in, I got that first watt detail. I have the tube lushness and just enough warmth to keep me honest. I betcha your Conrad Johnson pre was 3 times the warmth of the Vincent pre. Remember you told me it named after the Artist? Have you seen the way his paintings pop with lively colors? Well that's the Vincent sound.
 
MWalt said:
O.K. Got it! I am using a SS amp and a tube pre in this case. Separates. Not technically a hybrid.
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No you do have hybrids...I have the same thing. Solid state/tubes=combination of the two=hybrid sound....if your system is like mine, you have tube lushness with enough warmth plus the slam of a solid state. Some mid priced all tubed gear have problems in the bottom end, sloppy uncontrolled bass with not enough slam...but the more you go up in price the better it gets. That's why some guys go with what you and I have. some guys get small integrated flee powered amps and very high sensitivity speaks and still add subs to get slam.

Let me tell you why I settled on hybrids. I had been attending this live music concert hall every week at a small setting here in St. Louis. The place could hold maybe about 700 people so it was a small place. Oh man it sounded really good. Unlike my home stereo which sounded more like a studio recording to my ears. It sounded good but not like at those concerts I had been going to. I then noticed the guitar amps and other amps they where using had tubes in them. Now my buddies all tube system did not sound like that either...it was until I heard a hybrid system did it sound close to that sound from the live band and I was hooked. it did not sound exactly like it but enough to keep me happy. It's hard to explain but if you could go back and forth with your tubes and Ss amps you could hear the difference in the two very easily. One sounds cleaner than the other.
 
Here's the tube hybrid that I once owned. Plenty of slam and an over all nice amp if you enjoy the solid state sound.

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When I owned the above amp and a Classe CAP-150 I found myself constantly turning up the volume to hear more. Now with the simple circuit no negative feedback SETs I find myself turning down the volume to hear more.
 
With the Zu's my 3.5 watt SETs had plenty of slam for my tastes. But solid state is hard to beat for chest pressure punch.

In my current system which uses no passive crossovers I drive the mids with a 2a3 SET, the planar tweeters with a Topping t-amp and the woofers with solid state mono-blocks.
 
Poultrygeist said:
With the Zu's my 3.5 watt SETs had plenty of slam for my tastes. But solid state is hard to beat for chest pressure punch.

In my current system which uses no passive crossovers I drive the mids with a 2a3 SET, the planar tweeters with a Topping t-amp and the woofers with solid state mono-blocks.
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I still want to hear a great SET system before I spend another dime on gear. I have been scouting the ZU Omens, The Horn Shoppe "The Horn" speakers, Tekton's and other gear that is synonomous with low powered SET amps. I did just hear a nice Line Magnetic amp, but it isn't single ended. I just haven't found my niche just yet.
 
I don't know Poultry....a few guys I know that has the flea power SET's in price range had trouble with bass out put. Unles you got 340 Watts of SET amps like Florian, you will be adding subs.
 
slippers-on said:
I don't know Poultry....a few guys I know that has the flea power SET's in price range had trouble with bass out put. Unles you got 340 Watts of SET amps like Florian, you will be adding subs.
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My SE 6B4Gs sound great, great output down to the low 40s on my EV 12TRXBs :yes:. I have about $700 into my amp ;). While a sub would be beneficial, its definitely not necessary.
 
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IME, SE amps work best with single-driver speakers or those with a minimal crossover. My EVs, for example, have a single capacitor for the crossover. The trick is to find something efficient, with as flat an impedance as possible. Once you find a good combo thats to your liking, youll have a hard time going back. I used to be a 3 or 4 amps a year kinda guy until I started using SET...now my 6B4G amp has been my go-to amp for 3 years now :).
 
The beauty of a low power single ended triode lies in it's simple circuit, few parts and synergy with high efficiency full range single driver speakers which have no passive crossovers in the signal path. IMO an 80 watt SET is an aberration and makes as much sense as dual turbochargers on a Prius.

Where bass is concerned it's much more about speakers than amps. According to Linkwitz and I quote, "realistic bass levels can be obtained from dynamic drivers in open baffles not from panels".
 
Bob...I will have to see if there is some place to take a listen.

Poultry....so you think Florian's set amps don't make sense? Why?
 
Ok guys. Here's a question for you.

If a guy has a nice integrated amp say at 95 watts with some nice speakers at 87db , are you saying a flea power SET amp like Bob's with the single driver high efficiency full range will sound better? Poultry, I get the first watt detail, so what makes your flea power that much better? And kindly don't ell me I have to hear it.
 
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