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Ultimate Advice MC2300/MC2500/MC2600

If you will read the fine print on Damping factor, the Mcintosh white papers assume there is a passive crossover in the circuit. And under those presumptions, then there is a diminishing point of return with damping factor. But if you take that passive crossover out and throw it in the trash , either bi-amp or tri-amp with electronic crossovers and use speakers in cabinets with a low mechanical Q then you can hear and measure the difference. But as 99 and 44/100 of consumer owners have passive crossovers and don't bi-amp, its a non issue. Try an Altec 604 in a 16 cu ft enclosure that is not ported, infinite baffle, with a Crown P2sa versus a a 2100 and at one watt levels you can easily hear a difference. We may may argue as to which sounds best, but there is a difference. You could sub a 7100 for the crown and you could still hear a difference between the 7100 and the 2100. .
 
pw8888 said:
Thanks to everybody for all those great info !
i may end up buiing the 3 models and sell them to keep the best match.
:D

any other info welcome !
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I run a pair of Mc2300's in strapped mono. It's the "427 Chevy" of audio. Brute force at its finest!
Find a good preamp for the proper synergy, and you won't look back.
 
Yes and there is now a carbon fibre car with a 1 to 1 ratio, it weighs 1000 kilo grams and has 1000 hp and will reach 250 mph be fore the 427 can get to 100 mph. Just like a pair 1.2 K's will not only put out more power than your 2300,s but at 1 watt have 25+ db more signal to noise and more than a magnitude less distortion. Technology moves on. But to tell you the truth I would rather have a Speaker system with 96 db sensitivity with less than 2% distortion below 50 hz and less than 1/2% above 50 hz so I could really hear how great a 2300 could sound at 10 watts. Our speaker systems really color our amps. Then I could have a pair of 301's or 2301's breeding new life in to my old ears.
 
jdcarlson said:
As to whether output transformers (or autoformers as they are now called) are helpful or harmful
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Its important to understand that Autoformers (McIntosh terminology), are actually Auto-transformers, they are not output transformers per se'.
They have a single winding which is shunted to ground, and then have several "taps" at various points along the single winding according to the impedance required.
This is different from a traditional output transformer that you would find on the output of a tube amplifier.
The job of the output transformer on a tube amp is to covert the hi impedance to low impedance so a speaker can be driven.
These output transformers have two windings, a primary and secondary and are not physically connected.
 
Well, a few of you know that I now own (2) of each of these fine amplifiers. Six 130lb antiquated behemoths.

(2) MC2300 - 1Y and a 4Y
(2) Silver/Black MC2500 with the top panel decal (2nd iteration?)
(2) MC2600 - one early (6th unit off production) and one later.

Yep. Psycho indeed . . .

I must say, my past criticism of the MC2500 may have been a tad harsh (black faced, plastic square fan guards). I really like these two amplifiers. Running my XRT22s at 50wpc averages on the meters with a single unit operated in STEREO pressurizes the room like you may experience in a small club. I've not had the balls to light the Power Guard lamps on even a single. I must be getting old I guess.

One of the MC2500s was completely gone through after having the chassis totally bent up in shipping - see the other thread in regard. Really, I can't tell much of a difference between it and the first one I grabbed which is likely in about the finest condition one could expect an MC2500 to be in. Both present quite well indeed. I did something I should have done years ago - I put them on a furniture dolly to make connecting / disconnecting them from the system a snap. I originally purchased these amplifiers to power the system in our shop, but that hasn't come to fruition yet.

Too bad the Count is long gone to join the chat. Too bad Chris passed on - he'd likely tell me (more like assure me) I was nuts and that nobody needs anywhere near that kind of a power in a domestic setting. Too bad Rich Andrews is no longer here - another cat which own a pair of 2500s. But alas, I'm sure a few of the stalwarts will chime in.
 
Well I always thought a 2500 was the big brother to the 2255 and sounded very similar. Where the 2600 sounded more like a 7300. But as far as I was concerned they could all be mixed with one another in big discos and no one could particularly pick out any difference. Now on XR 290's I much preferred the 2600 to the 2500, it just seemed to match up better. The issues with the 2300 are many. It doesn't have power guard so some feel it has better dynamics which I recognize as added HF distortion. So in that respect you really do need a 2600 if you really want to put a 2300 in it place. Now if you have speakers with conventional woofers that aren't critically damped the 2300 can sort of have that tube bloom sound because of its low damping factor. Where the 2600 sounds much tighter and cleaner below 125 hz or so has been my experience driving large dual 18 inch boxes from EV, Altec and JBL as subwoofers. The 2600 is definitely the quietest of the three and the most dependable. I never had one fail on me and the 2300's were always having issues. 2255's with auxiliary cooling could have issues, but they sounded nice compared to the 2300. I never had a 2600 fail on me for close to 30 years of continual 12 hour a day 365 day operations. One 2500 had issues but that was because it needed cleaning so bad the fans locked up and it shut down. Gave it a thorough cleaning and it was still operating when I retired in 2004 with new fans I replaced later. Yes the fans could be noisy especially with the early 2300's where the fans ran consistently. Driving Klipsch EV, Altec and JBL I never had any noise issues with the 2600. Yes the 2500 had a few issues but they could be corrected by redressing signal lines inside the amp. But I have to agree the 2255 and 2250 were the quietest of them all. If I were you I would look for a good pair of MC 501's they can drive mismatched impedances better and have a much higher signal to noise ration. They put out close to 700 watts s I remember and are quad balanced so have much cleaner bass and much lower distortion and much better signal to noise ratios. They have the smoothest sound yet they can produce very fine details that seem to be lost on the other amps. The are some MC 602's out there you should try, too. Quad balanced with a bunch of power on one chassis. With close to 800 watts of peak capability before the Power Guard turns on.
 
If you need big power for L300's something is wrong. I would trade speakers first. Maybe you need some 4435's or DD65000 or DD67000.
 
damacman said:
The 1.2s just aren't me ... just too much like a manhattan apt fixture whereas I'm a hot rodder with grease under my nails ...
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I ain't buying this:no:. A pair of XRT22's aren't what I envision as speakers for a "hot rodder with grease under his nails". I'm thinking a pair or better yet 2 pair of refoamed, recapped and refinished ML4C's would be a better choice for the hot rodder-tinkerer that likes to play the Motor City Madman:rockon:
I can also attest that the big metered Mac's look right at home in a backyard building with a motorcycle resting on it's kickstand just a few feet away and a kegerator with a half barrel full of Clydesdale pis a few feet behind that.:beerchug:
Seriously though with your balanced d150 going into the fully balanced c200 you're leaving a lot of performance on the table by not going with at least the same generation of quad balanced amps. As nice as the older strapped-bridged Mac's are the newer quad balanced Mcintosh amps can almost make a fellow forget that he had a pair or 2 of the older generation Mac's in the past:dunno:
 
Hmm, having had the 20s I can say that those are speakers that ask for punishment, ... can definitely see the picture you describe with the 22s in it!
 
motorstereo said:
I ain't buying this:no:. A pair of XRT22's aren't what I envision as speakers for a "hot rodder with grease under his nails". I'm thinking a pair or better yet 2 pair of refoamed, recapped and refinished ML4C's would be a better choice for the hot rodder-tinkerer that likes to play the Motor City Madman:rockon:
I can also attest that the big metered Mac's look right at home in a backyard building with a motorcycle resting on it's kickstand just a few feet away and a kegerator with a half barrel full of Clydesdale pis a few feet behind that.:beerchug:
Seriously though with your balanced d150 going into the fully balanced c200 you're leaving a lot of performance on the table by not going with at least the same generation of quad balanced amps. As nice as the older strapped-bridged Mac's are the newer quad balanced Mcintosh amps can almost make a fellow forget that he had a pair or 2 of the older generation Mac's in the past:dunno:
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You crack me up. I've seen and heard the 1.25kws - very impressive. But the open chassis would fill up with shepherd hair in weeks around here ... same reason I sold the MC500. I'm good with the old horses ...
 
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