Underwhelming Project debut carbon evo with Acrylic platter
- Thread starter hodgkijay
- Start date
As the earlier posts mentioned, the Pro-Ject does have limitations. With that said, it can be a very nice table when set up correctly and modded.
I had a Debut III. I added the acrylic platter, speed box, Dynamat under the plinth, and Herbies mat. I then went all the way to the Ortofon 2M Black cartridge. After that I brought it to the dealer I had bought it from originally. He plugged it in and listened. Then told me it would hang with anything in the 2,000 dollar range. Now of course I had spent over 1,000 to do all the mods and the cost of the table, but it showed me what could be done. Ultimately I traded it in on a Music Hall 9.1 and kept the Ortofon Black for the Music Hall table.
Yes, Pro-Ject has some issues. But if you get the table from a reputable dealer or at least check it over very carefully when buying used, you can get a very decent table. IMHO
patient_ot
Super Member
Did you take your medication today? Calm down. No one is talking about $10K budgets here. Not sure what is going on in your imagination or mental delusions. I have used the PDC and examined it as well as other similar models. I have used and examined many old DD turntables as well. I have also seen what happens with those PDCs over the long term. Have a nice day.
I was a Project dealer (early in Project's existence) and I was not real impressed with the build quality or the sound. They were "OK" for the price I guess, but ????? I assume that they have improved a great deal - since they are still in business many years later and seem to get a good bit of positive press. I did hear a PDC with Ortofon 2M Red at a high-end shop in Denver 2 or 3 years ago and was favorably impressed. Then again - that shop knows how to set-up and tweek TT performance, so that one was probably operating at optimum capability?
patient_ot
Super Member
The company advertises heavily so that is why you'll find it difficult to read anything bad in the audio press.
A cherry picked sample may be okay for awhile, but these things often end up hummers/buzzers and build quality hasn't changed that much. Still an MDF/particle board slab with a cheapo off the shelf motor. Tonearms are very resonant also. With the price increases over the last few years I think the value is poorer now. Not that I would have recommended one 5 years ago or whatever anyway.
Mister Pig
Pigamus Maximus
@hodgkijay Try to take some of these responses with a grain of salt, I can see where they can try your patience. Also not everyone reads every post in the thread so they might miss your particular circumstances. I saw you are in New Zealand and that the second hand market has very few choices and those pieces have high prices attached to them. We don't know if you bought your Project new or used, and what the circumstances of the purchase is. This site is heavily biased to vintage, so these guys are always going to recommend a 1980s Technics or Kenwood table if given the chance.
Sounds like you got a solution though. As others have mentioned the Ortofon Red is not a well liked cartridge, and it seems to hold true in your case too. You got the Blue on there and are happy, but some folks miss that part and want to keep recommending table. Like I said they often don't read every entry in the thread and are just interested in giving their opinion.
Glad you got the table working to your satisfaction, and for what you had available to spend. Just be carful with those cartridge wire leads. I think there are a few upgrades available for the table, like the Speed Box, and making sure its well isolated. I don't know if that version uses the bands to suspend and isolate the motor, if not that might be worth looking at. Any way you can decouple the motor from the plinth is a good thing.
Enjoy the new table!
Sounds like you got a solution though. As others have mentioned the Ortofon Red is not a well liked cartridge, and it seems to hold true in your case too. You got the Blue on there and are happy, but some folks miss that part and want to keep recommending table. Like I said they often don't read every entry in the thread and are just interested in giving their opinion.
Glad you got the table working to your satisfaction, and for what you had available to spend. Just be carful with those cartridge wire leads. I think there are a few upgrades available for the table, like the Speed Box, and making sure its well isolated. I don't know if that version uses the bands to suspend and isolate the motor, if not that might be worth looking at. Any way you can decouple the motor from the plinth is a good thing.
Enjoy the new table!
triode
Well-Known Member
Good luck getting any more help on this forum.....
In all honesty mate I found your previous comments great and relatively constructive. What I don’t appreciate from others however is being told “hey mate, I’d ship that table back as it’s rubbish” or something along those lines without providing any really insight into something comparable to this level TT. And as it currently sits (with the 2M blue) the project sounds better than the Technics so this puts that to bed.
Everyone’s got their opinion I get that. And if your going to tell me I’ve wasted my money that is fine also however if you can’t compare that with another TT for the same price point (buying 2nd hand in New Zealand has its limitations) then the comments not exactly constructive is it?
Also a 10k setup to me is only 5k in USD so that might also shed some light here. Haha.
Appreciate the comment. All things on my to do list or to experiment with.
Hey mate no need for the personal attack?! I just really don’t think you’ve read or understood any of the context in which these comments or the original
question came from.
What’s your background in this industry mate? Enthusiast, retailer, repairer?
So what would you be buying for this price without going second hand? Because that is my predicament in a nut shell. Very interested in your response. And please don’t be like others and make a comment yet not note any product recommendations you would stand by.
JohnT123
Super Member
Some of us have to live with what we have. It doesn't have to be perfect, it just has to be good enough to make the owner happy. I have a Fluance RT85 with an acrylic platter right now. I used to have a Thorens but it just kept breaking down. Several people on the forums made sure I knew it was a big step backwards and that I should have bought something used of higher quality. The availability of good used gear in the USA is far greater than most other parts of the world and the US dollar is king.
We don't all have equal access to the vintage market and I can relate to @hodgkijay and his situation. NZ is a beautiful place but getting good used gear down there is an expensive proposition. I hope a few tweaks to his table makes it something he can be happy with. I know my entry level table is just singing with the 2M Blue and some careful setup.
Good luck mate!
We don't all have equal access to the vintage market and I can relate to @hodgkijay and his situation. NZ is a beautiful place but getting good used gear down there is an expensive proposition. I hope a few tweaks to his table makes it something he can be happy with. I know my entry level table is just singing with the 2M Blue and some careful setup.
Good luck mate!
Frbock
Active Member
I have the Esprit Carbon with carbon fiber tonearm and a Blue point No 3. The 2M red is a very nice entry, definitely better than the Pearl that used to be a part of the kit in the past.
Carbon fiber does have the advantage that since it's not monolithic, it's harder to get a resonance.
The acrylic platter I'm split on. Like the tonearm, it's harder to get resonance, but since I'm putting my vinyl on it, I'd rather have an additional protection from little scratches, so I do use the mat. It does have more mass than the metal platter so that should stabilize things
.
Carbon fiber does have the advantage that since it's not monolithic, it's harder to get a resonance.
The acrylic platter I'm split on. Like the tonearm, it's harder to get resonance, but since I'm putting my vinyl on it, I'd rather have an additional protection from little scratches, so I do use the mat. It does have more mass than the metal platter so that should stabilize things
.