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Unstacking

gonzomeep said:
That's either arrogance, if one is serious, or high school level (or lower) bravado/braggadocio, if you're kidding.
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Geez, naught but a loser either way, obviously! :whip:

I'll leave it up, tho, confident that others might more fully appreciate the true intent.

Thank you for the welcoming lecture on AK posting protocol and deportment, Steve.

May we get back to "Stacking" now, please?

Did you have something substantive to contribute to the discussion? :dunno:
 
Re-read your own posts. I was addressing those. I've already addressed Tapehead47's questions in another thread that he started on this topic. What I have to offer on any subject, I will write clearly. I have added what I wanted to in this thread. It is my perogative to do anything I please here, just as long as it is within Audio Karma rules of decorum.
 
Oh, you kids, stop your bickering right now and shake hands. I can't take you anywhere without you two argueing over trivialities. Shame on you. I'm so embarassed by your behavior. You could put someones eye out with that!

Seriously, I appreciate all your concern over my decisions, both pro and con. It's really entertaining seeing you go back and forth. The battle of the titans and all that.

It's a moot point. Rick likes loud music. Rick has 4 speakers, so Rick hooks them up. And plays them loud. And they sound great. Rick may be simple, but Rick is happy.

I despise the "subjective' angle. Sometimes one must use what one happens to own. Using that 'Haffler' circuit is just too far out for me, and not worth the risk to my amp. I mean, just how much better could it sound? I doubt it would make any measurable difference to anybody I know who listens to music with me.

Compared to what my friends have, my system is far and away the king of them all. It happens to be where my interests lie. I don't have an attitude about it, and I don't look down my nose at their stereos. I simply spend more time listening to and recording music then they do. I also go to yardsales while they're sleeping!

Rick
 
I think perhaps you misunderstood the meaning of subjective. It is exactly what your feelings on the subject are. Subjective: "arising out of or identified by means of one's perception of one's own states and processes."
 
I understand 'subjective', I just didn't want to see that word again. I'm an art teacher and hear it so much from students it makes me sick. I find it an excuse to be lazy.

And perhaps I'm being lazy. What I have to listen to is 'good enough'. I've had it for years and have added to it on occasion (you're gonna love this: an RG-2 and an ADC Mk III equalizer). No straight wire for me!

It's about the music, not the system. I'm trying to adjust all the parameters in my setup to get it just right. Without remotes for every unit, that's a lot of getting up from the sweet spot, fiddling with the controls, and then back to the throne for a listen.

But I don't mind it. I don't mind it at all. There are new variations to be discovered, dead spots to eliminate, reflections to overcome. Tinkering around with my stereo provides endless hours of tinkering around with my stereo. Usually I feel like I've made an improvement. There are so many buttons, knobs, and sliders it will keep me busy forever.

I have a deep admiration for such savvy individuals as Gonzo and Zilch. Others, like Drbongo, and markw. You men are all so brilliant to me. The technological knowledge you all have is staggering. Like communicating with Carl Sagan. I was delighted with Gonzo's help last time I started a thread on stacking. And with all the help I was offered I ended up doing what I wanted to do anyway.

Ignorance is not stupidity. It's merely a lack of knowledge about something. Technical jargon goes right over my head. You might as well be trying to tell my dog how some things work.

I've been chugging along for 40 years messing around with stereos. My source for information before AK, and the internet, were magazines like "Stereo Review".

This was intended to be a "Quick Reply"! Sorry to get so wordy.

Your student in sound,
Rick
 
I'm embarrassed you put me in with those other guys, Tapehead, Son of Zod. Flattered, but embarrassed. I'm just a doofus who is interested in a lot of stuff, and happens to know a lot about words, because I've worked with them professionally since I was 16. As far as nomenclature goes, I am a music and stereo lover, but I'm qualified as an "audiophile" only in the denotative sense, certainly not in the grand connotative sense. I can only vaguely tell the difference between a doppler shift and a Hafler loop. This site has some true heavyweights, and I'm with you in the class of a "student in sound" -- and a rudimentary student at that.
 
Well, doctor, your comments are erudite and interesting. Didn't mean to embarass you! Maybe you're not technical, but your opinions matter. I get more out what you have to say than a bunch of theoretical equations can provide.

It's good to not be so over-critical of the system. How could one enjoy anything? There's no "Perfect Stereo System". I'm not going to "Unenjoy" a tune because knowing my speakers could be moved a half inch from the wall, or my leads weren't the right gage.

Rick
 
Tapehead47 said:
Alex: Do you find the treble and mids boosting and the bass attenuating when all 4 are playing? That seems to be my problem. Any ideas?

Rick
Click to expand...

oops, just read the whole thread, my post no longer applies, glad you fixed the problem Rick. :)
 
Yeah, Alex. You figured it out: Individual pairs were in phase, but the seperate pairs were out of phase. Really had me disappointed for awhile.

Rick
 
Tapehead47 said:
It's about the music, not the system.
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Yup, and if you'll stick with me for a bit, we'll get you substantially closer to the music, and both of us learn in the process.

You'll need three things:

1) The Radio Shack digital SPL meter you've been threatening to purchase. Mine's model #33-2055, which may still be current. We're gonna use it in ways nobody's thought of. ~$50

2) Four plumbers' test plugs from the hardware store, ~$3 apiece. Check the internal diameter of the ports on your 4311s. Mine are just under 3", and the 3" ones fit nicely:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=122946#post122946

They're a thick rubber washer that gets expanded by squeezing between two metal plates as the wingnut is tightened. They do not damage the ports.

Get a small can of silicone or teflon dry lube spray while you're there also. To make the plugs operate more smoothly and easily, disassemble the plugs and spray both sides of the rubber washers to reduce the friction between them and the metal plates. Clean it off the circumference after reassembly, tho. That you want to "grab" in the ports so you can tighten. Spray the "inside" of the metal plates too.

3) Allman Brothers "Live at Fillmore East." :huge:

Background: 4311 was the less-expensive version of L100 initially sold to studios through pro (as opposed to consumer) distribution. It is a nearfield "control" (not "studio") monitor intended to be mounted on the console, away from walls (boundaries), essentially in the engineer's face. That's why it's configured "upside-down."

Boundaries enhance the bass response. There being none in the intended use, the bass was artificially "boosted" in the design. See the response curve for 4311 below. Do you understand that curve? I'll explain it, if not.

Installed near walls and/or floor boundries as you have them, the already boomy bass gets further accentuated. Stacking two pair adds even more through "mutual coupling" of the woofers, overpowering the balance.

You like bass. That's fine, but this is bad, fake, adulterated bass when used in conventional installations. We can make it good bass, and I'll show you how. Let me know when you've got the "stuff." :yes:
 

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alexkerhead said:
oops, just read the whole thread, my post no longer applies, glad you fixed the problem Rick. :)
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Hiya, Alex. Your post DOES apply, actually, or will, ultimately. :yes:

Got your new horns working yet, bud? :thmbsp:
 
Zilch said:
Hiya, Alex. Your post DOES apply, actually, or will, ultimately. :thmbsp:

Got your new horns working yet, bud? :yes:
Click to expand...
Still can't afford the compression drivers, but I made the baffles out of 2x layers of 3/4" MDF, however when I found out books for college were going to cost me close to $600 I had to drop the project. They will get done one day, but not in the near future. :(



Tapehead47 said:
Yeah, Alex. You figured it out: Individual pairs were in phase, but the seperate pairs were out of phase. Really had me disappointed for awhile.

Rick
Click to expand...

Hehe, I had the same EXACT problem, and Zilch was the one who recommended changing polarity over at LH.
 
alexkerhead said:
Still can't afford the compression drivers, but I made the baffles out of 2x layers of 3/4" MDF....
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Well, you've got mighty fine bass now, then.

Maybe this summer we'll get you running full range.

I'm still cooking on crossovers for that system here. About 5 alternatives now.... :p:

Alex's project, currently in "collaboration," is here:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=132587#post132587

Follow the links if interested in the details....
 
Zilch said:
Well, you've got mighty fine bass now, then.

I'm still cooking on crossovers for that system here. About 5 alternatives now.... :p:
Click to expand...
lol. :)

One advantage is by the time I finish the project, you will probably have discovered an appropriate crossover configuration for the 123A and compression drivers.

Of course, I could probably sell some of the accumulated stuff I have to get the compression drivers.

I'll think on it, but it is hard for me to sell stuff.
 
Damn, I was in a hardware store today for some keys. I'll stop tomorrow on my way home and pick them up.

Now you've got my interest, Zilch. I think I can relate now.

Rick
 
Background: 4311 was the less-expensive version of L100 initially sold to studios through pro (as opposed to consumer) distribution.


Actually, I believe the 4310 came first, was sold for "professional" use. JBL says they noticed that units were being bought for home use. The 4310 was sold in grey finish. They then produced the L-100 for home use. Later the L-100 was upgraded and became the L-100A. After that, the 4310 was given the same upgrade and became the 4311.
 
Zilch said:
Yup, and if you'll stick with me for a bit, we'll get you substantially closer to the music, and both of us learn in the process.

You'll need three things:

1) The Radio Shack digital SPL meter you've been threatening to purchase. Mine's model #33-2055, which may still be current. We're gonna use it in ways nobody's thought of. ~$50

2) Four plumbers' test plugs from the hardware store, ~$3 apiece. Check the internal diameter of the ports on your 4311s. Mine are just under 3", and the 3" ones fit nicely:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=122946#post122946

They're a thick rubber washer that gets expanded by squeezing between two metal plates as the wingnut is tightened. They do not damage the ports.

Get a small can of silicone or teflon dry lube spray while you're there also. To make the plugs operate more smoothly and easily, disassemble the plugs and spray both sides of the rubber washers to reduce the friction between them and the metal plates. Clean it off the circumference after reassembly, tho. That you want to "grab" in the ports so you can tighten. Spray the "inside" of the metal plates too.

3) Allman Brothers "Live at Fillmore East." :huge:

Background: 4311 was the less-expensive version of L100 initially sold to studios through pro (as opposed to consumer) distribution. It is a nearfield "control" (not "studio") monitor intended to be mounted on the console, away from walls (boundaries), essentially in the engineer's face. That's why it's configured "upside-down."

Boundaries enhance the bass response. There being none in the intended use, the bass was artificially "boosted" in the design. See the response curve for 4311 below. Do you understand that curve? I'll explain it, if not.

Installed near walls and/or floor boundries as you have them, the already boomy bass gets further accentuated. Stacking two pair adds even more through "mutual coupling" of the woofers, overpowering the balance.

You like bass. That's fine, but this is bad, fake, adulterated bass when used in conventional installations. We can make it good bass, and I'll show you how. Let me know when you've got the "stuff." :yes:
Click to expand...

THIS IS WHERE THE 4311 QUOTE APPEARED.
 
Zilch said:
Well, if you MUST know:

http://www.audioheritage.org/html/profiles/jbl/l100.htm

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=12047&postcount=1

:)​
Click to expand...

Not being quite as forum savvy as I desire, I don't know how to link to the JBL site. However, if you go to it and go to the JBL library and look up the brochure under specs that is titled simply "The L100 Century by JBL", the one with a shot of the quadrex foam grille in orange, you will find the source of my info.

BY the way, ZILCH, are you agreeing or disagreeing with me. I'm confused. :sigh:
 
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