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Update on new EMIT/EMIM Diaphragms

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I received the new diaphrams for the QLS EMIT's in the mail a few days ago. They are indeed NOS exactly what I have in my QLS-1's, they are part# 751-0625. They don't look like they were just manufactored probably on a shelf some where and nobody thought they were still avialable so they never got sent out.

When you ordered them, did they indicate they would be replenishing stock. The conversation I had is "they were out of stock and don't have a date for new arrivals", but they didn't know if they were going to actually get more.

But when I inquired about something I know they don't make, namely the L-EMIM, they answered "that item is discontinued and is not available". So the different answers kind of suggest the EMITS and Soft dome tweeters may be available? Anyone else get these kind of responses? The customer service person didn't have any info other than what the computor screen stated.
 
That was basically the same kind of response that I got. Items that were discontinued I was told NLA. But on the midrange driver and the EMIT diaphram I was told out of stock, and no information as to when they would be avialable. Maybe I got all that was left and they were just ones that were laying around. But the it all depended on who I talked to one day they wouldn't have any and the next day they had some and the on some days I tried to order they said out of stock and then I would call back the next day and they would have some.
 
I'm glad to have discovered this when I did. I have a set of RS 4.5 needing a serious rebuild taking up half the space of a closet. While all the EMIMs are functional, I'm certain some are ready to be replaced.

When I acquired the 4.5 and set them up I was immediately disappointed with their performance. Noted a buzzing sound coming from one or more of the EMIMs in one speaker. Never heard bass response like those things produce, though. The dual Watkins go way into the basement. Other than that, the 4.5 have a huge mid bass suck out that I couldn't deal with. My big rig has 2 sets of 8 Kappas side by side and they sound light years better than the 4.5s. (So into the closet they went waiting for something like THIS THREAD to materialize.)

I'm glad to have recently discovered the Infinity forum here at AK. I'm another one of you long time Arnie era nuts and I have a bunch of Infinity speakers acquired since my first set of RS 1.5 I bought new in 1980. I'll undoubtedly be yakking about my collection as time passes.

Rand
 
You won't find it easy to completely get rid of that mid bass suckout, I have wrestled with it since I bought my RS-4.5s. I've had good luck with drivers; one EMIM seems to be "buzzy" but I am not sure that the real culprit isn't bad wiring or a cold joint on the crossover board.

BTW, the mid bass suckout should not be that bad, you should definitely check for proper wiring of the woofers as well as the woofer connections to the crossover and the sealing of the woofer cabinet (see sticky thread above). And welcome to the Infinity AK forum!
 
Just got a call from my wife...

A box from Australia just arrived at my house!!!

Now how do I sneak out of work for the rest of the afternoon?

Time for some fun!

Stay tuned...
 
He will be waiting for feedback from the testers (myself and at least one other person I know of, plus himself, I'm sure), which should take a couple of weeks (need to break them in, test them against the stock units, etc.).

If feedback is good, he should be ready to go. He has told me that the package I've received could be done as production right away. If the feedback is not good, then there will be another iteration of the development cycle.

I will attempt to be as unbiased, detached and honest in my evaluation as possible. And I'll have my wife's ears for comparison (she is pretty good at hearing differences when I tweak the system).
 
Just curious Max...do you have a specific list of the objective and subjective criterion you are using for the evaluation? I'd be very interested to know the exact standards of evaluation that you have come up with, and the bases of comaprison with the originals.
 
Max, do you have any way of doing frequency v. SPL measurements? if not, perhaps one of us could lend you some equipment for that?
 
Just curious Max...do you have a specific list of the objective and subjective criterion you are using for the evaluation? I'd be very interested to know the exact standards of evaluation that you have come up with, and the bases of comaprison with the originals.

Yes, I do have a specific list, and I'll fill you all in when I am able to.

I can say that I have one RSIIb containing the stock diaphragms, and one which will have the new diaphragms. My speakers have custom outboard crossovers which allow me to easily and rapidly add or subtract drivers during an evaluation - so for example, I can listen to all the drivers, just the mids, just the low mids, just the high mids, etc. That should be very helpful in this evaluation.

Also, I believe that the ears are the best judge, but I am not averse to making measurements, being a measurement scientist and all...
 
Max,

I think we are all on the edge of our seats, waiting to here what these things look like, sound like, and have been dreaming for months.

How are you sleeping without getting these things running, I know I would be a kid at christmas!

Brian
 
As these are prototypes, Graz does not want me to post pictures of them, until he is ready for production. I have to honor his request as it would not be fair to post his intellectual property for all to see, and perhaps to copy. I'm sure you understand this.

The new diaphragms are in my right RSIIb, and I have spent the last 4 hours listening to a wide variety of music, from jazz to Gary Moore to Disturbed to Mozart. Below are some snapshots of my speakers with the external crossovers I built. The covers are off the crossover cabinets for tweaking/testing purposes, but the last photo shows the cabinets with the covers on.

I will need to run these in for 80 hours, per Graz, which is what is taking place right now. I can say this much right now - they fit and they work very, very well.
:music::music::music:
 

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This has been a long time coming I know - thanks to all for your patience. Presently I will have some feedback from those who have first production units and once the results are all positive I will start to release these EMIM units. Some points I would like to clear up;-

1) The units are direct replacements intended for the early EMIM drivers. If well received I will move onto the EMIT.

2) They will require no xover modifications and will be a nominal "blueprint" 2.8 ohms dc resistance, with a tight tolerance

3) Whilst they are intended as a direct replacement part - they look a little different to the early inserts. Once in you would be hard pressed to pick the slight visual differences from a couple of feet. More on that later.

4) Once they achieve "finished" status they will continue to be offered. I make these here, in house and can make them in small or larger numbers to satisfy demand as/if it unfolds. Read "no panic buying required"! This is not about revenue - it's about a fair and sustainable solution to save landfill of nice vintage speakers. A panic "blip" would do nothing but frustrate people, really.

5) They will only be sold direct, and there will be no group buy advantages, this really only being applicable to mass production items that these are very unlikely to be. Think "boutique" audio, keeping classic orphans going.

6) Pricing. I have an idea of pricing but will only know for certain when I produce a sizable batch, assuming they are well received. The introduction price will be a fair one calculated on my costs plus fair wages to build and send, and I will not enter into debate over it - anywhere. One price for all people.

7) Email. I thank those who have emailed me this last year for taking the time - but please understand I cannot give detailed personal status updates for the project. This is something that has to co-exist with my "real job" - Apogee. I am focused on getting those that need it a good result, worth the wait. Admin duplication slows the process, and email is my least favorite way to communicate! All news will be posted here and on the Apogee forum as I have it, for all to see.

8) Pictures. I have requested those evaluating "try before buy" keep pictures from the public view. There is still a chance of further refinements.

9) MOST IMPORTANT!!! There is NO final product "for sale" at the time I write this. This post is to say I have not forgotten you guys on here!

When I got into this (strong armed!) I believed it was something I could do with ease. The reality was different - for several reasons. Taking on somebody elses design and meeting compatibility criteria whilst being in keeping with the work I do for Apogee this decade was/is a more complex project. The conversations I have had with owners years down the track of ownership detailing failure modes, irregularity and design weaknesses sent me a clear signal that replication of the early parts wasn't going to be enough. Add to that a complete lack of original materials data, a long cold trail and 2009/10 moq realities! Remember, these are not backed up with production sales of speakers at car prices, and this project was taken on at the start of BAD economic times - I am amazed I am making this post!

I am under no illusion all will like my solution for this and/or future drive unit projects. For some "originality" is absolute. My solution is not "original". If it were a replica it would be just that - a replica, not original. Others are more focused on technical achievement, and here is where my efforts have been directed. I am not the Infinity company that made the original speakers.

Any future developments will be posted here and at;-

http://www.audioworld.com/sw/Forum1/HTML/007441-2.html

The last word is UPDATE, not product release!


Take care - Graz
 
Graz:

Thanks again for taking this on and for taking time out to keep us informed. You can be sure there are more than a few of us waiting to see how your project turns out. I, for one, hope you can make the EMIM unit work as a viable product and add the EMIT when the time is right.

One thing I wanted to make sure of is that the product you are developing is a replacement EMIM diaphram, is that not correct? That leads me to another question and that is the installation of the diaphram into the vintage EMIM driver. From what I have read, this is not an entirely trivial operation and requires the building of a proper jig to keep the EMIM in place while dismantling and reassembling it without damage to diaphrams or magnets. Will you be providing any insight or special instructions on how to do this with your product?
 
I don't know if Graz is monitoring this forum for replies, so maybe I can help you out a bit. Hopefully I'm not overstepping...

Yes, he is making replacement diaphragms, not whole EMIMs.

He supplied a jig to me with my evaluation set of diaphragms. I believe he is planning to do that with the production sets. You can also easily make one with 4 nails and a piece of wood, if so inclined. Disassembly and reassembly is simple with the jig, you just need a flat-head screwdriver and an allen wrench. I had no problems.
 
I don't know if Graz is monitoring this forum for replies, so maybe I can help you out a bit. Hopefully I'm not overstepping...

Yes, he is making replacement diaphragms, not whole EMIMs.

He supplied a jig to me with my evaluation set of diaphragms. I believe he is planning to do that with the production sets. You can also easily make one with 4 nails and a piece of wood, if so inclined. Disassembly and reassembly is simple with the jig, you just need a flat-head screwdriver and an allen wrench. I had no problems.

thanks!
 
kman:
Somewhere I have a Tech Paper from Infinity that describes in detail the method for building a jig and performing the diaphragm change procedure. I'll try to find it and post it for all. I'll bet I'm not the only one here that has a copy.
I am excited to have the diaphragms available in the future, as I really want to keep my Gamma's rockin'!
D
 
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