Bryan Davies
Active Member
I lifted up the spindle a bit and put a small drop of oil in there and wiped it around in a circle with a piece or paper towel, seems to playing at a perfect speed.
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Bryan Davies
Active Member
Yes i am going to order one specifically for the pl-12d
reydelaplaya
Super Member
Ok.
Go ahead and maybe add another drop of oil into the spindle and let it seep down in there by giving the spindle a few turns. Only wipe up what gets on the base.
Run it and play records for now like normal. I'll start to post how to remove that spindle here so you can come back to this thread when you're up to doing the job.
Go ahead and maybe add another drop of oil into the spindle and let it seep down in there by giving the spindle a few turns. Only wipe up what gets on the base.
Run it and play records for now like normal. I'll start to post how to remove that spindle here so you can come back to this thread when you're up to doing the job.
reydelaplaya
Super Member
Are your records playing at the right speed now?
Bryan Davies
Active Member
Yes, records are playing at normal speed, thanks. Wouldn't have known the spindle was the problem, or even what the spindle was lol.
reydelaplaya
Super Member
How to remove and relubricate the center spindle.
Remove the platter, and secure the tonearm to its rest.
If you can remove the dustcover, do so. Page 7 of owner's manual shows how it works. Open dustcover to vertical. Slide it a little to the right(if you're at the front of the table), or left(from the back). Then lift it straight off the pegged bottom half of the hinges.
Next, lift the front end of the metal platform like you're opening the hood of a car.
When you look underneath, you'll see the pocket I was talking about that the spindle rides in - it's toward the middle if this pic here, labeled 'center shaft assembly'.
Just like you have a screw on the motor pulley, there's one on here, too.
Back that screw out almost all the way, but don't let it come out completely. If it does, it's no big deal, but you'll have to put it back in when we're done.
Next, lower the metal platform.
Get a bath towel, and spread it out over the platform where the platter sits, but around the pulley (don't get the tonearm caught up in it). Similar to this tree stand cover, but right up close to the spindle.
From the topside, pull straight up on the spindle. It should pull out. If it feels like it's stuck on something, back that screw out a little more.
As you're pulling out the spindle, be on the lookout for the ball bearing. It may be stuck to the bottom of the spindle. And if it is, and it comes loose as you're pulling out the spindle, you'll now understand why we have a bath towel - to catch it, and keep it from bouncing off the metal platform and off to where you'd never find it.
If the ball bearing didn't come out with the spindle, you'll need to get it out of there. Turning over the turntable to roll it out is probably not a good idea, let's avoid that if possible.
Gimme a sec to figure this part out...
A magnet would work, but it's probably too big to fit down in there....
Remove the platter, and secure the tonearm to its rest.
If you can remove the dustcover, do so. Page 7 of owner's manual shows how it works. Open dustcover to vertical. Slide it a little to the right(if you're at the front of the table), or left(from the back). Then lift it straight off the pegged bottom half of the hinges.
Next, lift the front end of the metal platform like you're opening the hood of a car.
When you look underneath, you'll see the pocket I was talking about that the spindle rides in - it's toward the middle if this pic here, labeled 'center shaft assembly'.
Just like you have a screw on the motor pulley, there's one on here, too.
Back that screw out almost all the way, but don't let it come out completely. If it does, it's no big deal, but you'll have to put it back in when we're done.
Next, lower the metal platform.
Get a bath towel, and spread it out over the platform where the platter sits, but around the pulley (don't get the tonearm caught up in it). Similar to this tree stand cover, but right up close to the spindle.
From the topside, pull straight up on the spindle. It should pull out. If it feels like it's stuck on something, back that screw out a little more.
As you're pulling out the spindle, be on the lookout for the ball bearing. It may be stuck to the bottom of the spindle. And if it is, and it comes loose as you're pulling out the spindle, you'll now understand why we have a bath towel - to catch it, and keep it from bouncing off the metal platform and off to where you'd never find it.
If the ball bearing didn't come out with the spindle, you'll need to get it out of there. Turning over the turntable to roll it out is probably not a good idea, let's avoid that if possible.
Gimme a sec to figure this part out...
A magnet would work, but it's probably too big to fit down in there....
reydelaplaya
Super Member
I'm glad to hear you've got it running back at normal speed again.
Keep in mind that although it's working at the moment, it would be best to clean and relubricate the spindle - we're probably talking like 40 year old grease down in there. It's about time to freshen it up for its next 40 years.
I'm still trying to figure out how we'd go about pulling out that ball bearing if it stays inside the metal pocket. I'd prefer not to have you unscrew the nut that holds the pocket to the platform, but you may have to.
Lemme give this some thought, I'm sure it involves magnets...
Keep in mind that although it's working at the moment, it would be best to clean and relubricate the spindle - we're probably talking like 40 year old grease down in there. It's about time to freshen it up for its next 40 years.
I'm still trying to figure out how we'd go about pulling out that ball bearing if it stays inside the metal pocket. I'd prefer not to have you unscrew the nut that holds the pocket to the platform, but you may have to.
Lemme give this some thought, I'm sure it involves magnets...
JLange2010
Well-Known Member
Oh man, season 4, episode 2! A magnet might do it, but if not how about a straw of a smaller diameter and suction? You'd want to make sure that the straw was not so large as to inhale the ball bearing through it...
reydelaplaya
Super Member
Yeah, you forgot the part where the plane's been safely navigated for the last 5 hours over the Pacific, and only now, on final approach to LAX do they find out that the landing gear's stuck. Only the left wing gear will lock, leading to a potentially catastrophic, lopsided belly landing that's sure to put the plane into a 260MPH flat spin once it touches tarmac.
A passenger overhears the flight attendants discussing the precarious situation and offers a brilliantly wacky solution:
:long pensive sigh:
You'd probably do it that way.
I'd probably do it that way, too.
But I can't in good conscience recommend that to somebody over the internet. Accidentally inhaling a ball bearing or the oil that's down in there would be a severe medical emergency. I'd feel like bugs bunny offering Elmer Fudd a match to get a better look inside the dark dynamite shed.
Bryan, I realize you're probably starting to wonder if getting this old TT was such a good idea. Don't worry dude, all vintage classics, from muscle cars to electronics, require a little tinkering from time to time to keep them at their best.
At least yours, being a basic belt drive manual TT, is the easier to work on kind.
The best way, when you're ready to do this job, is to follow the procedure I've started you with above. If the ball bearing doesn't ride out with the spindle, you'll need a wrench. Pliers will work, but you'll need to be extra careful not to round any corners or scratch the deck.
You'll only need to just loosen that brass nut that's at the base of the spindle. Once you've got it loose, you can turn it the rest of the way by hand.
Keep your other hand holding the metal pocket underneath the platform to remove it once the topside nut is off.
Careful not to let the ball bearing fall out while you're removing the metal pocket.
Cleaning, lubrication, and reinstallation next.
JLange2010
Well-Known Member
Rey, you are absolutely correct. It even crossed my mind that it might be a foolish thing to suggest, but I typed before I really thought it through. I considered for a bit the idea of somehow attaching a vacuum before thinking, "hey- it's a straw, just suck on it". But you're right, the consequences of a malfunction are a tad severe. A coarse fabric over the top of the straw might reduce the risk, but it still seems like a technique that could win a person a Darwin Award.
Clearly you have a great understanding of my movie analogy! But I have no doubt that though the plane may spin around a few times, it will be at a reduced speed due to gummed up oil somewhere and all the passengers will walk away safe. Thanks to the calm advisor in the tower.
Clearly you have a great understanding of my movie analogy! But I have no doubt that though the plane may spin around a few times, it will be at a reduced speed due to gummed up oil somewhere and all the passengers will walk away safe. Thanks to the calm advisor in the tower.
reydelaplaya
Super Member
Cleaning and relubricating the spindle bearing.
Supplies needed:
WD-40
Q-Tips
Paper towels
Bearing oil
Once you've got the whole assembly out, you'll want to work in an area you can get a little messy. Put an old towel down to absorb liquids.
Squirt some WD-40 into the metal bearing pocket and let it 'digest' for a minute. Be careful of backspray.
Keep squirting it in there and dumping it out until the ball bearing comes out when you dump it. Then put the bearing in a safe spot for a sec while we clean out that pocket. Use a Qtip and more WD-40 to scrub out any old grease inside there to the point where it's nice and clean.
Next, fold your paper towel in half a few times and give it a squirt of WD-40. Put the ball bearing in it, and rub it around a little to get any old grease off of it.
Clean off the spindle, especially the part at the bottom that rides around in that pocket, with the WD-40 as well.
Once you've got everything here clean, it's time for reassembly.
There are two ways to do this - reassemble the whole spindle bearing assembly now and install as a whole, or reinstall the pocket, and reverse the procedure above.
Supposing you want to reassemble the whole bearing now and install it in one piece, you'll want to do it like this.
Put a couple drops of the bearing oil down inside the metal pocket, then drop the ball bearing into it. Add a couple more drops until the ball bearing is just under the oil level - don't fill the pocket completely.
Next, put a drop or two on the part of the spindle shaft that rides in the pocket and spread it around on there. Then put the spindle shaft into the pocket and spin it around a few times. It should feel effortlessly smooth. When it does, screw in that retaining screw, only to the point that it doesn't let you pull the spindle back out of the pocket - too far, and you risk driving the screw into the shaft, locking it up. If you go too far, just back it out a little.
Next, put the spindle assembly back through the platform, and replace the topside washer and nut. Only tighten this to the point where it was before, over-tightening runs the risk of shearing the threads off that brass pocket.
Once it's reinstalled, and the platform is back where it's supposed to be, put another couple drops of bearing oil on the the spindle and let it run down in in there. Spin it around a few times to spread it around. Wipe up any excess or spills on the deck with paper towels.
Again while you're in here, if you haven't already oiled the motor in that little hole by the arrow, now would be an excellent time to do so.
Then. Before touching the platter, belt, or anything else, go wash all the oil off of your hands - no sense in getting those all oily.
Put the platter back on, and before reattaching the belt, give it a spin and see how it runs.
It should be smooth, quiet, and run by itself for quite a long time.
If you can check those three boxes, put the belt and mat back on, reattach the dustcover and unsecure the tonearm, and then pop on a record.
Sit back and enjoy the music, knowing that since you did it right the first time, you'll probably never have to do that job again with this TT.
Let me know if you've got any questions when you decide to do this.
Good luck, dude!
Supplies needed:
WD-40
Q-Tips
Paper towels
Bearing oil
Once you've got the whole assembly out, you'll want to work in an area you can get a little messy. Put an old towel down to absorb liquids.
Squirt some WD-40 into the metal bearing pocket and let it 'digest' for a minute. Be careful of backspray.
Keep squirting it in there and dumping it out until the ball bearing comes out when you dump it. Then put the bearing in a safe spot for a sec while we clean out that pocket. Use a Qtip and more WD-40 to scrub out any old grease inside there to the point where it's nice and clean.
Next, fold your paper towel in half a few times and give it a squirt of WD-40. Put the ball bearing in it, and rub it around a little to get any old grease off of it.
Clean off the spindle, especially the part at the bottom that rides around in that pocket, with the WD-40 as well.
Once you've got everything here clean, it's time for reassembly.
There are two ways to do this - reassemble the whole spindle bearing assembly now and install as a whole, or reinstall the pocket, and reverse the procedure above.
Supposing you want to reassemble the whole bearing now and install it in one piece, you'll want to do it like this.
Put a couple drops of the bearing oil down inside the metal pocket, then drop the ball bearing into it. Add a couple more drops until the ball bearing is just under the oil level - don't fill the pocket completely.
Next, put a drop or two on the part of the spindle shaft that rides in the pocket and spread it around on there. Then put the spindle shaft into the pocket and spin it around a few times. It should feel effortlessly smooth. When it does, screw in that retaining screw, only to the point that it doesn't let you pull the spindle back out of the pocket - too far, and you risk driving the screw into the shaft, locking it up. If you go too far, just back it out a little.
Next, put the spindle assembly back through the platform, and replace the topside washer and nut. Only tighten this to the point where it was before, over-tightening runs the risk of shearing the threads off that brass pocket.
Once it's reinstalled, and the platform is back where it's supposed to be, put another couple drops of bearing oil on the the spindle and let it run down in in there. Spin it around a few times to spread it around. Wipe up any excess or spills on the deck with paper towels.
Again while you're in here, if you haven't already oiled the motor in that little hole by the arrow, now would be an excellent time to do so.
Then. Before touching the platter, belt, or anything else, go wash all the oil off of your hands - no sense in getting those all oily.
Put the platter back on, and before reattaching the belt, give it a spin and see how it runs.
It should be smooth, quiet, and run by itself for quite a long time.
If you can check those three boxes, put the belt and mat back on, reattach the dustcover and unsecure the tonearm, and then pop on a record.
Sit back and enjoy the music, knowing that since you did it right the first time, you'll probably never have to do that job again with this TT.
Let me know if you've got any questions when you decide to do this.
Good luck, dude!
reydelaplaya
Super Member
I agree. Since I know the risks involved and would personally be willing to take that chance knowing entirely what to expect, that's the way I'd probably do it myself just to keep from having to mess with removing the spindle bearing pocket. But yeah, in this case, I'd rather tell him to do it the longer, safer way.
JLange2010
Well-Known Member
So this is serious thread drift, but Rey, a while back you asked about Bryan's first album played, and congratulated him on Zepplin. I've been around this site enough to appreciate the humor (and truth) behind your response, commenting that Zepplin or DSOTM would gain high respect around here. But you also mentioned Rumors and that surprised me. I am not surprised that Fleetwood Mac would have high credibility, but that particular album, being such a chart success - I would expect some distain for it as a consequence. Kind of like saying David Bowie, but then picking "Let's Dance" as the particular album choice. Now understand, I love Rumors and Let's Dance, but I'm surprised to learn that Rumors is so respected here as to be a poster child for popularity. I'm hoping you might be able to shed some insight as to why? Again, I do like the album, but I thought that saying so here would be a bit like confessing to owning Abba records. What is it that makes Rumors so appreciated? Is it a particular example of a great production, or mastering? Is a twirling Stevie Nicks the embodiment of Athena to Ak? Again, I'm not trying to dis the album, I'm just surprised to learn that it might be so esteemed here, and curious if you could shed some light on it.
reydelaplaya
Super Member
I'm not exactly sure, but I can say this.
Had you not mentioned it here, I wouldn't have been inclined to go listen to it on Prime Music. From listening to the album on repeat a few times, it dawned on me how good it actually is. I really haven't heard any of it since it was on the radio the first time around.
I ended up buying the LP to be sent to my parents. And I'll probably end up with the 2xLP 45/180 when it's released in a couple weeks.
Back on track:
Bryan, how's your Pioneer spinning for you now? Any other problems surface, or is it playing nice?
lippertini
New Member
Sorry for jumping into the convo uninvited.... @JLange2010 , you inspired me to write this: http://audiokarma.org/forums/index....popular-albums-that-deserved-the-hype.705208/
Thank you, I had fun thinking about it.
Thank you, I had fun thinking about it.
reydelaplaya
Super Member
Well, Bryan... it's been over a week or so, how is your setup treating you?
Everything working properly now?
Everything working properly now?
DustyOldPile
Vinyl Goddess
Never heard that, and it has no basis whatsoever in science or fact.