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Vintage Fried Speakers, Indy

McCarthy, nice work and it sounds like you were rewarded for a the small investment of cash and time .. aka the fun of rebuilding :-) way to go man.

These things are killer. Price was definitely worth speakers of this caliber.

Also one of the mids had the dustcap poked in...the hairdryer trick worked like a charm, how all the drivers look great except for the woofer whose exterior on both speakers has been slightly cat ravaged it appears.

Cats seem to be the natural enemies of speakers.
 
SM, whatever happened to Dennis Jaeger, the owner of SoniKit out of Oakland in the early 80's? I met him a few times long ago and still have some brochures and long hair wool I've saved for some type of TL project.

We talked a little about this in a previous Fried thread:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=242279

sonikit brochure download site:
https://sites.google.com/site/mpbarneyspeakers/SonikitBrochureofFriedKits-1979.pdf?attredirects=0

Dennis is a member of the Yahoo Spica group.
I found a post by him on the group site and emailed him.

He stated in his email that Dalesford would never bust loose with any decent spec sheets. He also stated that Bud was closed mouth about his drivers.
He went out of business in 1980 for reasons he did not share.

It took many attemps to get the answers I seeked from Bud about his many design parameters. Bud took offense at those that deduced his many design parameters like myself but eventually got over it.

The C6 crossover schematic I previously post was also the C3L and O4 crossover. The values were changed after the final Gefco driver design was decided on.
 
I'm guessing they sound like most other 5% poly caps ;) I guess for me to really tell for sure I'd have to solder mutiple brands in and out. I can tell you that the DQ-10's you heard at my place had an Audyn either 3% or 1% (they were on special at the time) behind the tweeter. Let me know when you're going to host a show, I'd love to hear your Focals again (those things were GREAT, I know Hawg although thought so) and your various DCM's.
 
I'm guessing they sound like most other 5% poly caps ;) I guess for me to really tell for sure I'd have to solder mutiple brands in and out. I can tell you that the DQ-10's you heard at my place had an Audyn either 3% or 1% (they were on special at the time) behind the tweeter. Let me know when you're going to host a show, I'd love to hear your Focals again (those things were GREAT, I know Hawg although thought so) and your various DCM's.
Will do. First though I need to finish up 2 pair of DCMs. Shouldn't take too long. Just need to find the motivation.
 
John,

Found this on Wausau (Wisconsin) CL...

(IMF)Fried Model H speaker system (kit)
This is an Irving M. Fried model "H" speaker system kit plus extras. The sub has 2 12" drivers plus xover. There are 2 satellite speakers finished. As extra there are 2 Fried model C3 speakers finished. For the kit there are detailed plans with drawings and wiring diagrams.
I also have some car stereo amps with some speakers that I'll include for free.
Pictures can be had with request or will try to post later.

Interesting to say the least.

Brad
 
I took a look at those. Looks like the same upper and mids as my R's but with that massive subwoofer. Probably sounds awesome and would be a cool project especially with that TL sub. Too far away and not the thing for me though just because of the size and sub/sat factor. The Fried C3's I have no idea about, look like they are small satellites that don't share any of the drivers of mine.
 
Weird, even those tiny cabs supposedly employ TL's.

They employ a T-line that is 3.9 feet long.

There are 2 pieces of wood used to construct the T-line. The wood has to be cut at a 7.5 degree angle.

Enclosed is picture of the T-line construction plans.
 

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That is crazy! I'm guessing that t-lines aren't employed often now because of the expense involved in wood/assembly/shipping?
 
They have never been employed often for exactly that reason. Money put into cabinets comes at a cost of lesser drivers or higher price, and the average consumer hears with his eyes, so what isn't seen doesn't have much importance relative to what is seen.
Of course this true of many audiophiles, and if you include reading reviews, perhaps even more true of them than the usual audio customer.
Large, heavy, expensive speakers with relatively small drivers and no bass bump are not what everyone is looking for. Alas.
 
Right, the same reasons that make our hobby in modern times cost a ton of money for any non-box-store decent speakers.
 
Since a couple of you guys mentioned me and my speaker kit outfit from the late 70s, I thought I would pop in and make a couple on comments. As mentioned, Sonikit was founded to offer high end speaker kits, many of European designs. I contacted Roger West (Soundlab Electrostatics) and he persuaded the then current owners of Janszen Electrostatis to let me market their speakers in kit form. I contacted Bud Fried and persuaded him to offer some of his speakers in kit form. Unfortunately it did not occur to me to get and exclusive form him and he started selling the kits through his regular network also... I am sure this cut into my sales
and also undercut my national advertising budget. I also landed the west coast Seas distributorship and marketed kits from them as well as Rectilinear. I also offered a couple of amateur Brit TL designs as well as one of the Radford designs (where Bud learned about TLs) .

I entered the picture just as Bud was switching to Dalesford from KEF drivers. I had also gotten US distributorship for the Dalesford drivers. As was common for Bud, he would request modifications to a manufacturers drivers and then claim them as his own (not an unusual practice in the industry), while they would offer them in their catalog. Bud did this with Dalesford, most notably with the 10" driver he used in his "H" subwoofer systems, and in his "line tunnel" designs.

Contrary to the practice of those in Britain who taught him, Bud was very secretive about all aspects of his designs. His relationships with his British peers was strained to say the least.

Sincerely,
Dennis Jaeger
 
Dennis: I'm curious what you mean by Bud Fried learning about TLs -- do you mean that the Radford design was the first he encountered or that your kit was where he encountered it, or what? My impression is that Fried was involved at a pretty early date in the marketing of IMFs, and he had been very active in importing british hi fi equipment from some time in the mid/late 50s, when he was also writing columns on british equipment for the stereo magazines back then. He was, for a while, the US importer (I think) of Quad, Goldring and Tannoy at various times, and joined forces with John Wright and others at IMF early on. So while the Radford design may have been the first commercial design he heard, I imagine he knew of Bailey's work very early.
But I certainly may be wrong, and I'm curious if you can say more on the subject.
 
Since a couple of you guys mentioned me and my speaker kit outfit from the late 70s, I thought I would pop in and make a couple on comments. As mentioned, Sonikit was founded to offer high end speaker kits, many of European designs. I contacted Roger West (Soundlab Electrostatics) and he persuaded the then current owners of Janszen Electrostatis to let me market their speakers in kit form. I contacted Bud Fried and persuaded him to offer some of his speakers in kit form. Unfortunately it did not occur to me to get and exclusive form him and he started selling the kits through his regular network also... I am sure this cut into my sales
and also undercut my national advertising budget. I also landed the west coast Seas distributorship and marketed kits from them as well as Rectilinear. I also offered a couple of amateur Brit TL designs as well as one of the Radford designs (where Bud learned about TLs) .

I entered the picture just as Bud was switching to Dalesford from KEF drivers. I had also gotten US distributorship for the Dalesford drivers. As was common for Bud, he would request modifications to a manufacturers drivers and then claim them as his own (not an unusual practice in the industry), while they would offer them in their catalog. Bud did this with Dalesford, most notably with the 10" driver he used in his "H" subwoofer systems, and in his "line tunnel" designs.

Contrary to the practice of those in Britain who taught him, Bud was very secretive about all aspects of his designs. His relationships with his British peers was strained to say the least.

Sincerely,
Dennis Jaeger

Nice to see you on the forum Dennis. :)

I was told by Bud that he and R.Wright learned from Bailey about T-line design as did A.Radford.
Bud was indeed secretive about his designs.

I have the last Fried Dalesford 6.5" and 10" in the upgraded C3-L and O-4 T-lines.


http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=497958&d=1394678029

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showpost.php?p=7602420&postcount=14
 
When Fried initially moved to Britain his first association (I think he worked there, but not sure) but it was directly from Arthur Radford that he learned about designing TLs (Radford had the "first" commercial designs on the market, and very interesting ones at that). He fairly early on set up a marketing outfit and encountered Wright and started marketing Wright and his partners designs - I'm not sure if IMF (marketing) was founded before or after he became involved with Wright etc. Eventually there was a law suit in Britain between Wright and partner and Fried over the use of the IMF name and product lineage and Fried lost. He then started marketing his designs in the States under "I.M. Fried Products". Everyone... Radford, Wright, Fried and others "learned" about TL's from Bailey's work. Actually the design principles date back to the Thirties.
There was "bad blood" between Radford and Fried.

BTW: Sonikit failed because I simply bit off too much too soon. Too many design lines, too much overhead, too big an advertising budget, etc. Big time beginners mistakes. I'm still rather happy with the lines I rounded up, with the exception of Rectilinear.

Regards,
Dennis
 
Dennis, I'm also glad to see you posting here, and was glad to have met you a few times at SoniKit. I was living in Berkeley at the time and your catalog, and introduction to British drivers and designs got me started on a serious study of audio and a lifelong interest in speakers. The layout of the catalogs, and the intelligent discussion of the designs was most illuminating. Unfortunately, on a grad. student's budget, I was unable to do much save for buying some long hair wool, which I still have to this day.

Sorry to hear that SoniKit didn't survive, but I believe it was ahead of its time in many ways. I know that Just Speakers and a similar outfit in Colorado as driver suppliers paved the way for Madisound, Meniscus, Audio Concepts, and similarly Wilmslow, Falcon Acoustics, and Badger Sound Services in the UK flourish to this day (except for BSS).

Thanks for your being a teacher and introducing many to the ideas of DIY speakers, especially with known quality designs. :thmbsp:

Bartley Yee
 
Thanks for your kind words Bartley. I had Wilmslow Audio in mind when I got the idea to set up Sonikit. Looking back, I think the wiser course would have been to place the main stress in Fried and Seas and to offer the kits pre-mounted on baffles, like the KEF Kits, and let the customer do the work on the rest of the enclosure. Perhaps offer a couple complete Fried kits.

Mr. Fried was a lawyer operating in a world of engineers. He was quite good with words, at public relations and creating an image. He was also a extremely bright engineer. He was famous for saying "Don't tell me what others are doing, I do what I think is right". In actuality, he was constantly pumping me for my opinions and information on what others were doing.

He could walk into a room and look at the setup, judge the distance of the speakers from the boundaries and give you an estimate of the set-ups resonance problems.
 
The (Legal) story from across the pond:

Dear Whoever,

I read with interest your site describing the background of IMF. I am the sole survivor of the three Directors of the Company. I first met John when I was a Director of an electronics company in Amersham, Buckinghamshire. We jointly designed a record turntable made of perspex (Plexiglas). John designed the tone arm and we won some design awards. It was belt driven and servo controlled by a separate electronic control module. At that time John was interested in producing a transmission in line speaker and had made one for Irvine Freed to demonstrate a wide range Decca cartridge at the New York Hi fi show. After the show, Bud said he had taken a number of orders for this speaker and John and I got together and started to manufacture the original professional monitor. Of course, Bud, had a called it the IMF, and therefore, perhaps mistakenly we registered IMF and formed and IMF company. The Directors being myself, John Wright and David Brown who was a partner of mine already. At no time did Bud Freed have any input on the designs. We sold him speakers and he was the US Distributor until he made some cheap speakers and called them IMF. We pointed out that we had the rights to the registered name and that by making a cheap, poor quality speaker would cause damage to the reputation. He refused to back down and it ended up as a lawsuit which we won. Bud was never involved with the British IMF Company and only visited a couple of times. He never forgave us for blemishing his reputation which he had promoted in the USA as an entrepreneur and hi fi fanatic. After the lawsuit we formed our own American Company and distributed ourselves throughout the USA.

For a time we sub contracted cabinet manufacturing and bought in drive units from KEF, but decided it would be preferable to make our own drivers and cabinets. We bought a cabinet factory near Oxford and formed an alliance with Elac to make the drive units. We formed a company jointly owned by IMF and Elac (TDL). The most significant was the large base unit which had a thick tapered styrene cone with a plastic coating, this produced a rigid piston action and was extremely light without any cone break up and produced an excellent fast response at low frequencies. We were one of the first companies to use Ferro fluid in tweeters reducing ringing and giving good heat dissipation. John and I worked closely together on new designs. My idea was to produce a smaller transmission line speaker but size limited the length of the folded line, which meant the port went out of phase too early. The answer was to fit a low resonance base unit where the port would normally be. The cross over system had a separate filter for the lower base unit and maintained and in-phase response to around 18 Hz. Internal air pressure prevented the cones being over-loaded with high power low frequency pulses. The super compact was effectively a tuned port, only I considered a flat damped panel to be an advantage.

John always wanted the finest performance and was fanatical regarding quality. He spent endless hours producing demonstration tapes for the hi fi shows that we attended. His articles that appeared in many journals reflected both his dedication and knowledge.

During this period, Prof. Peter Felgett then head of Cybernetics at Reading University, developed the idea of true surround sound and Michael Gurzon developed the mathematical formulas by which a microphone with 4 capsules in a tetra-hedral array could receive sounds from all directions and encode the signals so that they could be decoded producing side to side, front to back and height information and low frequencies (omni). We formed a team, myself, John Wright, David Brown, Prof. Felgett and Michael Gurzon. I remember spending many hours in the anacoic chamber working on the surround sound microphone. BTG then known as the National Research Development Corporation paid for the patents and ultimately, the system was perfected. Our timing was bad as the collapse of Quadraphonic made people wary of Ambisonics. Furthermore, the bureaucracy of BTG made it extremely difficult to move forward.

To promote ambersonics we at IMF formed a recording company and I and a sound engineer travelled to the States and recorded at numerous venues. The records won acclaim for the best stereo without decoding and played in surround were spectacular. We recorded Dixieland, Blue Grass and Big Band. In the UK I assisted John in recording at numerous venues including much Classical, and I still have many of the tapes. Nimbus records in Monmouth transcribed our tapes to disks and using normal equipment and decoders manufactured by IMF produced the most remarkable realism. I travelled to the States and our records were played on PBS (the US public broadcast stations) and various venues had decoders and produced the surround sound off air, with generous praise from all concerned. Meanwhile, I had formed an alliance with Dolby, but the management at BTG insisted on dealing with Ray Dolby and their demands of management, if he became involved, drove him away and he went on to develop his surround systems. Sadly, Michael Gurzon died of an attack of asthma but his work was a milestone in understanding the mathematics of surround sound.

Meanwhile, IMF continued with a wider variety of speakers. We designed a speaker for surround sound with a balanced polar diagram, this is the MCR2A. this was designed to have a reasonably narrow polar diagram so that it would integrate effectively and maintained phase when used in fours for surround or in eights if height information was to be included.

Due to my personal connections at Buckingham Palace, I persuaded those with influence to get the BBC to record, with our help, the marriage of Diana and Charles at St Paul's Cathedral. The BBC after some persuasion agreed and the BBC installed surround sound microphones both inside St Paul's and outside to capture the crowds cheering. I still have the BBC Master tapes. The BBC asked BTG to pay for the cable, (everything else was free) and BTG said they wouldn't pay the £500.00 expense. After some argument they paid. I was invited to Kensington Palace to play the tapes for the Royal's approval prior to their release. I remember we installed four studio monitors and managed to wake up the Duke and Duchess of Kent by demonstrating at what I thought was a reasonable level.

The world moved on and despite Denon, (Nipon Columbia) taking out a licence, I can say that BTG were a hindrance as, having paid for 115 patents their bureaucratic Civil Service mentality tried to exclude our help and co-operation and put on demonstrations with no technical ability, speakers wired the wrong way round etc. etc.

The world economic situation hit our cash flow and David Brown resigned and eventually went to the States to retire. He sadly died of cancer several years ago. I had worked with David Brown when he was Sales Manager and I was Works Director of Dawe Instruments a subsidiary of Lucas CAV. We came to the conclusion that we should terminate production and move in other directions.

We originally sub contracted drivers to the Elac company and subsequently formed a joint company called TDL owned by both Elac and IMF.

John decided that in co-operation with the existing TDL Company and with the support of Elac would manufacture transmission line speakers under the TDL label. Eventually a TDL company became independent and John continued but his health was failing. He also died of cancer a few years ago and the TDL name lived on for a while. But, in my opinion, without the entrepreneurial spirit and a large investment, TDL was not going to survive.

As you will no doubt see, I am disposing of much of the hi fi equipment on Ebay, with the help of one of my engineers. Obviously the history is more complicated than I have said, but I still believe that we made some of the finest speakers ever produced. I have the most fond memories of John locked in the anacoic chamber and the hours we spent listening and tweaking to produce the desired effect. On a final note I remember swapping a pair of professional monitors with Dr. Nacamichi for one of his model 1000 cassette decks and visiting Japan and spending several days with Nipon Columbia and Denon looking at their latest developments and sitting in their listening room with a pair of our monitors and a pair of their latest speakers. After some time I was asked what I thought. To be polite I said there speakers, which had been designed using laser technology, were interesting and had a good response. The President looked at me, smiled and said, "Why are you speakers so good and ours are bloody awful". Those were the days.

Bud Freed was never a Director or shareholder of IMF Electronics. IMF electronics were the only company manufacturing the transmission line speakers. The name IMF was adopted because Bud Freed had demonstrated the first prototype speakers at the New York hi fi show, and because of the publicity and the fact that he had used his name on the then unnamed speakers, we stuck with the name which was a mistake on our part. It was never his company. After our lawsuit he called his speakers Freed.

I am just about to dispose of two integrated, high quality lab designed amplifiers, with built in UHJ decoders. There are four 100 watt outputs plus an additional output for omni directional base to feed a sub woofer.

They have the usual inputs and controls with solid state switching for mono to all outputs for surround balancing, side to side and front to back balance, UHJ decode, and stereo decode with variable width to wrap-round stereo signals. They are standard rack size, anodised black front panel.

Signed

John Hayes


This , I think , is devoid of public relations hype (though there is clearly a lot of animosity).

Dennis
 
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