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Vintage Fried Speakers, Indy

Both the B110 and the Dalesford(?) mid found in the Super Compact and TLS 50sare fairly heavily damped and relatively acoustically opaque, so in the sense that damping makes response more uniform (or polite), diminishing resonant modes in the driver, and opaqueness minimizes through the cone transmission of the backwave (which is already attenuated by the quasi TL the smaller mid is mounted in), the sound probably is fairly similar.
Near field listening will tend to minimize the need for lots of power, which helps maintain a sense of liveliness.
 
Nat said:
Both the B110 and the Dalesford(?) mid found in the Super Compact and TLS 50sare fairly heavily damped and relatively acoustically opaque, so in the sense that damping makes response more uniform (or polite), diminishing resonant modes in the driver, and opaqueness minimizes through the cone transmission of the backwave (which is already attenuated by the quasi TL the smaller mid is mounted in), the sound probably is fairly similar.
Near field listening will tend to minimize the need for lots of power, which helps maintain a sense of liveliness.
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Actually, the TLS 50 used in its first iteration an EMI 4" driver, then they switched to an Elac 4EM/101 in the TLS 50 II, and then later on in the production run it changed to an Elac 4/200.

As for their quality, rest assured these are great sounding midrange drivers. I have a couple of spare sets for a reason. :yes: They sound very much like the B110, but not as detailed or smooth. Not far off though, you won't notice a lot of difference going from the TLS 50 to the TLS 80.
 
I am looking forward to your impressions after the recap. My R's are original and I am thinking I need to do the recap too.

Dave
 
Gravelyguy, wonder no more. I have recapped one side to A/B recapped vs unrecapped. My preamp in my office where these reside is an old recapped SAE 2100XL that has a 'stereo' and 'stereo reverse' knob. This allows me to flick the nob back and forth and replay a passage and hear the same sounds that might be in the left channel out of the right channel immediately after I rewind and flick the knob. I've spent about 20 minutes here playing things back and forth and conclusively I've gained some detail in the tweeters and some the highs are less fatiguing in the recapped channel versus unrecapped. I played Paco De Lucia, Dire Straights 'Down to the Waterline', Norah Jones 'Come Away With Me', Chris Jones's Roadhouses and Automobiles, and Grateful Dead 'Candyman'. Norah Jones's voice sounds less earbleed-frayed out of the recapped side on her third chorus where her voice can strike the ear like an icepick. I switched channels back and forth and definitely out of the recapped channel it is less fuzzy/peaky. In 'Candyman' there is greater resolution/definition of the opening instruments out of the recapped channel. In Roadhouses and Automobiles Chris Jones's midrange blurring voice produces less 'heat' and distortion. In Down to the Waterline I'm actually getting more DB output at 2:45 into the track where he cuts out with the liquid guitar out of the recapped side.

I'm going to proceed and finish the second crossover and then re-listen and post pics.

John
 
Awesome, thanks for the update McCarty! If you get a chance could you pm me your caps list and where you ordered them from?

Thanks,

Dave
 
Gravelyguy said:
Awesome, thanks for the update McCarty! If you get a chance could you pm me your caps list and where you ordered them from?

Thanks,

Dave
Click to expand...

No problems, I'll just paste them below:
4 x 4.7uf film caps (audyn 5% caps from parts express)
6 x 33 uf NPE caps
2 x 50uf NPE caps
4 x 10uf NPE caps

I got them all from Parts Express; normally I order my caps from erseaudio.com but they were out of stock on some of the ones that I needed. I think the total was under 30 dollars, maybe 26.

The crossover comes out with 4 screws and you remove it from a PCB edge connector.

John
 
sm19422 said:
Wigwam do you remember which model you heard that sounded incredible?

The Fried sound didn't come into it's own until he abandoned the use of the Kef drivers. The Kef drivers required a high order crossover.

When Fried had all of his drivers custom made for a first order series crossover the Fried sound became legendary.
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Lets just say I am highly skeptical of that statement. I sold lots of IMF and some Frieds as well, and knew Bud from his fairly frequent visits to our store and that's the first I've heard of customized drivers. It just doesn't seem like something he'd do. The Fried series was all about cutting costs while maintaining the sound of "real" IMFs. Custom drivers don't fit into that equation. I'm also pretty sure his designs weren't all 1st order. Please point me to something that backs up these statements.
 
John,

If you are looking for a Fried model that are up-line from the Model R, you may want to look into the model M:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=4915378

They are rare, but might be worth looking into for a floor standing Fried system. I would love to locate (an afford) a set of these, or perhaps the model H/2 system that combines the B/2 mini monitors with the dual channel TL (model T) subwoofer. I've never had a chance to listen to either system, but would jump at the chance to do so.
 
I think that 'customized' may sound more hoop de doo than it actually is. I suspect any loudspeaker system manufacturer supplies specs to the driver manufacturer to tweak the standard model. And driver manufacturers have a variety of cones, voice coil formers, magnet strengths, voice coil wires, glues and blah blah blah that they can use, and the buyer is not limited to the exact driver that is available to the DIYer.
In some cases, like the KEF drivers, the speakers themselves may have been designed for the existing drivers, so no customization was neccessary, but I think this may have been when only a cutting edge place like KEF had the measuring capacity and production abiilty to design and make such (for the time) advanced drivers. But as computers became common and cheap, that bottleneck disappeared.

On the subject of series crossovers, my understanding was that some of Fried's designs had them, and I'm not sure that anyone has said all of them had them.
 
yesshows77 said:
John,

If you are looking for a Fried model that are up-line from the Model R, you may want to look into the model M:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=4915378

They are rare, but might be worth looking into for a floor standing Fried system. I would love to locate (an afford) a set of these, or perhaps the model H/2 system that combines the B/2 mini monitors with the dual channel TL (model T) subwoofer. I've never had a chance to listen to either system, but would jump at the chance to do so.
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So I'm not sure if this is up the line from the Model R or not. Certainly a bigger cab and perhaps a legit TL but the upper drivers are the same as mine and my woofer is the hallowed racetrack so I'm not sure. I'd certainly like to hear a pair that's for sure!
 
audiomagnate said:
Lets just say I am highly skeptical of that statement. I sold lots of IMF and some Frieds as well, and knew Bud from his fairly frequent visits to our store and that's the first I've heard of customized drivers. It just doesn't seem like something he'd do. The Fried series was all about cutting costs while maintaining the sound of "real" IMFs. Custom drivers don't fit into that equation. I'm also pretty sure his designs weren't all 1st order. Please point me to something that backs up these statements.
Click to expand...

Audiomagnate I live fairly close to where Bud once resided and know some of the former owners and other people that were involved in the company.

I have a wide assortment of the many oem drivers Bud used that were of his design.

The last Dalesford units Fried used had a larger magnet structure and extended pole piece than the stock units.
The Dalesford drivers sold in 1980 by Transcendental Audio and Circle Sound were different than the Fried versions. I know this by purchasing some from these vendors. Dennis Jaeger was the sole importer of these drivers from the Dalesford company and supplied all of the USA vendors including Fried.

All of the Transparent Sound, Carboneau and Gefco drivers were oem designs.

Here is one example of the Fried oem Gefco composite cones. It has a double stacked magnet structure. This is also true of the Transparent Sound and Carboneau units they have a double magnet structure being of a oem design.

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/album.php?albumid=911&pictureid=5697


All of his later designs are 1st order series crossovers. One example is from the C2 and O2 crossover plans. I have all the C and O model crossover plans which are 1st order series crossovers.
I have already post this link which show one example of the crossover used in the C2 and O2 model.

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showpost.php?p=6573155&postcount=56

The T-line subs Fried designed have a longer line length and were larger in enclosure volume than the IMF designs.
One example is the O4 model. The total line volume is 4.75 cubic feet with a line length of 10.4 feet.

The T-line enclosure volume of all the Fried Products 1/4W T-lines = 1.25 Sd. for line length. The C3l enclosures have a line lenght of 3.9 feet for a Fs of 75 hz. By using a .5 Sd for line terminus area the Fs is at 60 h in the C3l enclosures.

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=466490&d=1383443485

Enclosed is another example of the 1st order series crossover that was used by Bud.
 

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Audiomagnate if you recall the stock Dalesford units were much higher in price than any of the Kef bextrene cone drivers. The xmas on the oem Fried drivers were also longer than the stock versions. The Kef B139 had a 3mm xmas compared to 10mm on the oem Dalesford sub drivers I have.

The last oem Dalesford units were only used in the models sold to recording studios. Bud also used a thiiner bextrene cone on these drivers than the stock models. I won't mention his name but know his former west coast head of sales that resides in Pacific Palisades. He was very involved in many of the Fried designs with his engineering background.

The short lived Focal 6K412 used in the C5 model were also modified but didn't live up to their design with the cone breakup above the rolloff. This was a problem when using a 1st order series crossover circuit.
 

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McCarthy, nice work and it sounds like you were rewarded for a the small investment of cash and time .. aka the fun of rebuilding :-) way to go man.
 
sm19422 said:
Audiomagnate I live fairly close to where Bud once resided and know some of the former owners and other people that were involved in the company.

I have a wide assortment of the many oem drivers Bud used that were of his design.

The last Dalesford units Fried used had a larger magnet structure and extended pole piece than the stock units.

The Dalesford drivers sold in 1980 by Transcendental Audio and Circle Sound were different than the Fried versions. I know this by purchasing some from these vendors. Dennis Jaeger was the sole importer of these drivers from the Dalesford company and supplied all of the USA vendors including Fried.
Click to expand...

SM, whatever happened to Dennis Jaeger, the owner of SoniKit out of Oakland in the early 80's? I met him a few times long ago and still have some brochures and long hair wool I've saved for some type of TL project.

We talked a little about this in a previous Fried thread:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=242279

sonikit brochure download site:
https://sites.google.com/site/mpbarneyspeakers/SonikitBrochureofFriedKits-1979.pdf?attredirects=0
 
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