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Vintage Turntables: Time to Throw in the Towel?

musichal said:
Today I sprayed the strobe adjustment on a Technics SL-D3 that wouldn't hole speed worth a darn, and then she sat steady as a rock for hours now. Freshening up a TT I'm gifting.
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I have a tt (I think an MCS, maybe? Will have to look tomorrow) that very slightly varies speed. And it is not the platter marks that are wrong....I noticed the problem by ear before watching the strobe more closely. You said you sprayed deox on the strobe adjustment. I assume this is the pitch control. Can I also spray the actual speed control pots and rotate them back and forth, like you do a volume knob, for instance? Any other areas I should deox?
Thanks.
 
stratokaster said:
If the strobe dots are moving slightly back and forth, more often than not this means that the platter strobe marks are not spaced perfectly evenly, that's all. It happens even on very good turntables, for example I watched a couple of videos about the new all-singing, all-dancing Technics SL-1200G today and I was surprised to see that in one of these videos, the strobe dots were clearly moving both vertically and laterally.
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So if the strobe-marks show uneven speed, it has nothing to do with unstable pitch? A novel theory: they're only there to look bad.
 
Certainly wouldn’t make my decision based off of a phone app.....For speed get a strobe label and test.

With w/f if it cannot be detected by ear then why worry about it? Actually the same can be said for slight inaccuracies in speed...

BTW My newest table is a DD probably 30-40 years old, the other 3 are 60-75 years old, and wouldn’t consider any of them lacking in any way...

VR
Andy
 
Zygmo said:
I have a tt (I think an MCS, maybe? Will have to look tomorrow) that very slightly varies speed. And it is not the platter marks that are wrong....I noticed the problem by ear before watching the strobe more closely. You said you sprayed deox on the strobe adjustment. I assume this is the pitch control. Can I also spray the actual speed control pots and rotate them back and forth, like you do a volume knob, for instance? Any other areas I should deox?
Thanks.
Click to expand...

Actually, though I do have some D5, I wasn't up to accessing the controls as one should but instead used a plastics-safe electronics cleaner of another brand and flooded the pitch control through the plinth. Yes, I am ashamed to admit that, but it worked like a charm. I also had to install a phono cart, with poor vision, shaking hands and so edematous that my feet felt just like two balloons... so my wife had to do it with my supervision. We began at 0800 this am, and finally finished at 1430, Pretty certain she will be filing tomorrow. :)
 
musichal said:
Today I sprayed the strobe adjustment on a Technics SL-D3 that wouldn't hold speed worth a darn, and then she sat steady as a rock for hours now.
Click to expand...
My very first TT I bought in the late 70's has twice had speed problems over the years and cleaning the pitch controls fixed it both times. It was in my dad's system for years and now it's in my brother's and he loves it. Says it out-performs his other two by far, it has a decent cart and new stylus on it. It's a step or two above the entry level Onkyo.
 
I picked up a Technics slq300 at a church sale cheap. 1987 I think. W&F .025 new, ATlp120 .25. I figured it would be a project. Speed is dead on. It wants to drop the needle a little outside the record, I'll fix it soon. P-mount but i have a few carts. It even adjusts tracking 1-1.5 grams. I did buy my ATlp120 new, after they fixed the skating spring. I use the term fixed loosely.
 
bimasta said:
So if the strobe-marks show uneven speed, it has nothing to do with unstable pitch? A novel theory: they're only there to look bad.
Click to expand...

In an ideal world, everything would be perfect. Alas, we have to deal with manufacturing tolerances. Take a look at the video below: it clearly shows that the strobe marks "pulse" once per revolution because the platter is not machined perfectly. And this is on a new $4000 turntable. My Technics SP10 mk2 shows a tiny bit of waviness in its strobe as well, but I know it's dead on because I looked at the output of the motor's built-in frequency generator with a scope. You can only see this minuscule amount of waver because quartz-locked strobes are very sharp, mains-powered strobes are blurry and minor movements are obscured by this blurriness.

The only turntable I owned where the wavering strobe indicated a fault was a cheap non-quartz DD where one of the phases of the motor was not driven properly.

 
All of my tables are vintage, some DD, some DD with quartz lock, some belt drive, none less than 35yrs old, and none with these issues.

My DD Kenwood KD500 without quartz lock runs rock steady. Set the speed pot the last time when we moved to the new digs almost 3yrs ago, no subsequent adjustments required.
 
My KD 500 always had a slight wavering - the strobe markings moved back and forth about the distance of the markings themselves. Nothing I did got rid of it. Can't say I ever heard the variance, but it was there from new.
 
musichal said:
Actually, though I do have some D5, I wasn't up to accessing the controls as one should but instead used a plastics-safe electronics cleaner of another brand and flooded the pitch control through the plinth. Yes, I am ashamed to admit that, but it worked like a charm. I also had to install a phono cart, with poor vision, shaking hands and so edematous that my feet felt just like two balloons... so my wife had to do it with my supervision. We began at 0800 this am, and finally finished at 1430, Pretty certain she will be filing tomorrow. :)
Click to expand...

Most reputable stores around here will install a cart. for free (a service I always stubbornly refuse!), may be a good idea to find such a store in your neck of the woods!
 
maxhifi said:
Most reputable stores around here will install a cart. for free (a service I always stubbornly refuse!), may be a good idea to find such a store in your neck of the woods!
Click to expand...

I own no records. Have no more TTs. Likely that was my last phono cart install/adjustment, and I wouldn't trust a store to do it right these days, unless a high-end one. It was my last hurrah for vinyl... you understand. I was always a Thorens TD-165 user and big fan back in the day. The Technics was a gift for my parents who really needed a fully automatic model,,, they're gone now and the table came back to me; it is going to a 14yo girl who asked for a cheap turntable from WalMart for Christmas. Included with it are a Fosi Bluetooth amp which will synch with her phone, a brand-new-looking-and-sounding pair of Minimus 7s, Pyle phono preamp, new AT cart, Discwasher brush still with original D4 fluid in the handle and D-Stat mat. I told the girls mom to leave me out of it - I gave it to her to give to her daughter and told her to take full credit for the gift. Don't know the daughter. I also gave the mom a pair of Edifiers and a Bluetooth TX/RX so she could synch also. The mom was thrilled-to-overwhelmed. She was my Christmas project this year. 'Tis more fun to give than to receive.
 
I have some speed issues with some Technics that need recapping. The rest of my old tables are great, and wouldn't care to own any new tables unless they were very expensive models.
 
Nat said:
My KD 500 always had a slight wavering - the strobe markings moved back and forth about the distance of the markings themselves. Nothing I did got rid of it. Can't say I ever heard the variance, but it was there from new.
Click to expand...
I remember reading something in a service manual about how slight fluctuations from the power source (the outlet) can cause some slight wavering with the strobe/markers on tables that have them, but that most of the time it's not an issue that will be audible.

To the OP: Vintage doesn't automatically mean better, but a good midrange to upper end model of the past is typically well worth putting some effort into if it needs servicing (and the fact is that many 40+ year old tables need it).

New is the way to go if you don't want to tinker with old stuff and want a warranty, but excellent performance from new stuff doesn't come cheap. When I wanted to upgrade from my Project Carbon Debut, I ended up going all vintage for a reason...(among others).

The good news is that many turntables are relatively simple devices (especially fully manual, belt drive models, but some DD too) in the grand scheme of audio gear. So it's well worth learning some basic servicing skills IMO.
 
stratokaster said:
In an ideal world, everything would be perfect. Alas, we have to deal with manufacturing tolerances. Take a look at the video below: it clearly shows that the strobe marks "pulse" once per revolution because the platter is not machined perfectly. And this is on a new $4000 turntable. My Technics SP10 mk2 shows a tiny bit of waviness in its strobe as well, but I know it's dead on because I looked at the output of the motor's built-in frequency generator with a scope. You can only see this minuscule amount of waver because quartz-locked strobes are very sharp, mains-powered strobes are blurry and minor movements are obscured by this blurriness.

The only turntable I owned where the wavering strobe indicated a fault was a cheap non-quartz DD where one of the phases of the motor was not driven properly.

Click to expand...
That platter wobble looks pretty bad! I would expect better on a $4,000 Technics turntable. I would send it back for an exchange/refund.
 
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